Federation abilities a bit lacking?

Game Discussion Balance
1

I would like to start off by saying I’ve only got a t2 interceptor so I can’t really judge too well which is why the title is a question mark.  I want to know if I’m just not seeing the benefits that the federation abilities provide.  I also noticed that stat wise the federations only benefit over the other two faction seems to be they have better speed and energy regen at the cost of lower hull and shields which makes them feel really weak since they end up being about 20% weaker in terms of total hp.  Again it has just been my experience that 20% lower hp is not made up for with speed(or energy) when you have lasers that remove a lot of the benefits of being fast enough to dodge other things.

Interceptors
Right now my main problem is that plasma web seems like a weak ability since it does about as much dps as the enemy’s shield regeneration(this would be much less of a problem if it was an aoe but I don’t think it is, correct me if I’m wrong).  I feel you *have* to use the -50% regeneration variant because unless I’m wrong it actual calculates to an increase in dps since you are competing with less regeneration while the other variant simply lasts longer.  The introduction of the support frigates with hull and shield regeneration auras negate plasma web almost entirely and leave me feeling very much like its a button that has remarkably little use outside of pulling people out of stealth.   I would much rather be using one of the other two interceptors because I feel like they actually have more utility. 

The Empire’s super speed jump is very useful to immediately warp a second interceptor into combat behind the enemies captain in recon or reinforce a point (I feel like this is decently balanced but overall interceptors are pretty weak so it could do with a buff).  

The Jericho interceptor has probably the best ability of all the interceptors.  The ability to paralyze everyone nearby for any period of time is a huge boon to the team, it translates to a whole bunch of possible free damage.  Its even better because they are invulnerable while they charge the massive pulse.  This ability forces a reaction from the other team or they will take some kind of free damage.  None of the other interceptors have the same kind of team support/survival abilities.  

 

PULSAR : I almost want to call this ability the bane of interceptors.  It takes out 4000 of my 5100 total hp(maybe 6000 is you count shield regen during the ability duration).  This ability prevents me from getting anywhere near a frigate for 8 seconds every 35 seconds.  It keeps me out of the frigate’s dead zones or it kills me before I can really do any hull damage.  Maybe I’m wrong but I thought I would be able to do well once I closed the distance on frigates and not be instantly forced away.  At the very least I would like Ion beam to be usable to shut that down once its activated, however that’s just a wish I have and may not be balanced.

Fighters

Invisibility is a very delicate balance issue, often times I feel like invisibility is almost overpowered.  Here it feels underpowered(average if you choose damage immune stealth) for any situation other than prolonging your life.  The problem is that getting the drop on anyone that isn’t an interceptor is worth remarkably little in comparison to other faction abilities.  The dps increase on the empire fighter immediately makes up being caught off guard by allowing you to just win once you get to the dogfighting.  The Jericho ability to increase shield resistance has more of less the same effect by letting you win in a dogfight since you take less damage.  

Frigates

This is the class that bothers me the most.  The two drone variants I feel are interesting and useful against interceptors, fighters, and other frigates(in head to head combat).  The problem is that the abilities the other two frigates have prevent you from ever getting close enough to engage in head to head combat with them or moving out of cover at all.  Its frustrating to have a large block of steel that gets pegged over and over again from 10000+ meters until it dies.  Its a decent defender that can actually counter the Jericho missiles spam(I think it shoots those down right?) but it seems like its doomed to stay behind cover as a defender/support frigate and can’t move out if there is a frigate from one of the other two factions

Again this is just my opinion and I would be completely fine with someone politely informing me how useful invisibility or any of the other abilities are in general. Tell me how speed is more valuable than health in interceptor vs fighter with lasers.  I very much want to think this game is balanced because I still enjoy it despite being frustrated quite often when I have to do twice the damage to a fighter with half the firepower.

2

Just so you are aware, there are many fed complain threads you could have just added to, also I agree.

3

Maybe I did a poor job looking but didn’t seem like there were any in the balance forum that were recent.  

In other news every time I make a post I always end up thinking I should compact the information into a more easy to read and direct form… so here is that.  I should also mention I play arcade because I know I’m going to make mistakes and would like to take silly risks sometimes without being brutally punished by not respawning.

  • Speed does not make up for having 20% less hp when lasers that travel to their target instantly exist.
  • Plasma web has difficulty competing with natural shield regeneration which means that by default the one that decreases enemy shield regen just does more damage in total.
  • Plasma web has little utility and team support capability compared to the interceptors of the other two factions.
  • Support frigates(shield and hull heal aura ships)  completely nullify plasma webs damage.
  • Pulsar is way too strong against interceptors(only thing I have enough experience with to really comment on)
  • Invisibility feels underpowered compared to the other two abilities(though I think shield damage resistance is a bit of a boring ability)
  • The federation frigate has interesting and useful abilities in close range but severely lacks because its a giant target.
4

The ‘underpowered’ nature of the Federation is known by most. But I agree, Plasma web needs to be buffed at the very least.

5

I’m playing all ship types on federation at the moment at T2 and they are mostly useless. The most effective ship I have  is the Lynx (Fighter) which uses the stealth. I can engage someone but due to the low hp/shield I have to invis pretty quick which I just fly off to hide someone while using modules to repair hull and shield. Normally I don’t get too far with it since the damage output isn’t that good.

 

The interceptor moves very fast, but is still pretty weak and the ability I rarely use since it seems to do nothing at all. As for the frigate, the drones are pretty useless I reckon. I have the Armada Combat Drones that are meant to shoot down incoming missiles once every 50 seconds (each drone can), but I’ve never seen it work. I could be moving towards combat with the team, hear incoming missile and think, yeh my drones will stop that, and boom! Both drones die from the explosion and have done nothing. ANY explosive weapon that hits me destroys the drones, they are soo useless. The only use so far for the drones is in scenarios where there are rarely if any missiles fired so they live longer.

6

They drones need to stay out the entire time, and depending on the type should repair or attack on use. You constantly build drones to send out to a cap. And I guess they either have to suicide against incoming missiles or laser them down. 

7

I’d have to give similar thoughts, particularly with the frigate. Drones are too easily destroyed by basically anyone. It locks down a slot for flares if you want to make use of them or use the missile defence if you’re getting hit by torps.

 

As for the base stats, I’ve started to find that the split defenses of hull and shield compared to the more focused hull for Empire and shield for Jericho are enough of a defence loss before the general 20% cut for higher speed. Running a passive mod to improve your shield when you have only 5k shield is going to do far less for you than for a Jericho frigate that has more than double.

8

I would instead say that having your ship stasis’d and losing your drones is bs. Tey are already out, they should not disappear.

9

Frigate support drones are boarder line overpowered in pve, and even in pvp it helps keep me alive and supporting the group. Only thing they really need is more life or allow us to recall them before a missile hit and then deploy them after.

10

I’m mostly in agreement with the OP here, but at the same time somewhat torn. This may only be because I’m a fairly new player, and still running T1 until my T2 ships are nice and fully-geared, but I’m finding, beyond coordinated Interceptor Squads, that Fed fighters are one of the few viable counters to Long-Range Frigates (at this tier, and I will admit, even after getting a kill or two on an enemy’s back-line ranged units, I tend to die pretty quick because of proximity to the enemy spawn). So I thought to myself; beyond the speed, and linebreaking ability, what makes Fed stuff special? The answer I found was, unsurprisingly: Nothing.

Again, this is coming from someone who mostly runs the Lynx-M, I would say my only major worry are lasers, with practice, you can dodge anything else, so I take a look at stats between comparable T2 Fighters that I had no Synergy with; The Fox, Deimos and Machete (without any implant or module boosts):

[Machete]
Hull = 2690, Shield = 6585.
Resistances (Kinetic/EM/Thermal): Hull = -5 / 55 / 25, Shield = 40 / -20 / 10
Energy: Max = 450, Regen = 87.2/sec
Speed: Max Standard = 169.6, Afterburner = 296.8, AB En Cost = 102En/sec

[Deimos]

Hull = 6050, Shield = 3765

Resistances (Kinetic/EM/Thermal): Hull = -5 / 55 / 25, Shield = 40 / -20 / 10
Energy: Max = 450, Regen = 87.2/sec
Speed: Max Standard = 169.6, Afterburner = 296.8, AB En Cost = 102En/sec

[Fox]
Hull = 3585, Shield = 3765
Resistances (Kinetic/EM/Thermal): Hull = -5 / 55 / 25, Shield = 40 / -20 / 10
Energy: Max = 495, Regen = 95.9/sec
Speed: Max Standard = 192, Afterburner = 336, AB En Cost = 102En/sec

 

Before continuing, you may notice some details missing here, such as Shield Regen, strafe, maneuvering or acceleration, but after double checking, these stats are identical across the board.
So- Moving on, as we can see here, Jericho and Empire craft both have strengths expected of their faction, they have decent shields and hull, respectively, with the Fox clearly having a slight edge in Top Speed, and Energy/En regen. From this we can surmise that the Federation Fox is speedy, can sustain that speed for a good distance, and can tolerate mild amounts of energy disruption, but is otherwise the runt of the litter in terms of defensive capability, having the same shield stats as its Empire counterpart, and while, indeed, it can go fast in a straight line, it does not have the superior maneuvering ability that perhaps we ought to expect from this faction’s craft in terms of Strafe and Rotation.

Moving now onto the subject of its defensive stats, which the OP introduced, I have done some maths to determine where the mid-ground that the Federation represents ought to be, and whether or not these craft live up to that.

To find the respective mid-grounds, I have used the equations;

Hull = ((Empire.Hull - Jericho.Hull) / 2) + Jericho.Hull, and
Shield = ((Jericho.Shield - Empire.Shield) / 2) + Empire.Shield.

The results from this are: Hull = 4370, Shield = 5175.

Assuming we take the OPs suggested 20% mark-down to account for increased speed stats, those values fall to:
Hull = 3496, Shield = 4140.
So, as we can see, the Federation Fox isn’t getting a full 20% mark-down in hull, but is somewhat getting shafted in the Shield department, with this stat being marked down from the Mid-Ground by a closer to 27%-28% in return for, really, not the largest increase in a stat that is, as mentioned, negated almost entirely by laser weapons.

 

This then brings up the controversial subject: How would someone go about leveling the playing field here? Owing to my lack of experience with this game, compared to many others, I can only make vague stabs as to what could be done _in my personal opinion, _but from what I can see here, I would surmise that the way to give a fair increase to, in this particular example, the Fox’s stats is one of two ways:

  1. Increase the Fox’s Thermal Resistance on both hull and shield, to negate even a small amount of the unavoidable damage that comes with lasers, or
  2. Boost the Fox’s maneuverability in the realm of Roll/Yaw and maybe Pitch (though the latter can be supplemented by a Fed implant) And/or strafing ability, allowing skilled pilots to give laser-users a harder time keeping the beams on-target.

Regardless of which appears to be better, I also feel that even a slight shield strength boost is in order, as the fact that the Fox and Deimos’ shields are identical irks me somewhat. Anyway, I hope this analysis is useful to some folks, and I thank you all for taking the time to read this~ :slight_smile:

Edit: Forgot some brackets on the equations :stuck_out_tongue:

11

Nicely said Pezz. I wasn’t aware that they got shafted on shields, with regen bonuses the fox can sustain full afterburner indefinitely, a beautiful thing too.

12

I guess most of you guys aren’t even T4. 
 

It’s worse there. 

 

 

Also if you analyze the top (blue) MODS we got it’s ridiculous. The vanguard faction is quite good but the Armada is a joke. Amongst useless stuff we got the incredible collision compensator YEAH! Yup, you read that right, thanks god we can switch faction to get Legion/Guardians/Vanguard mods instead. 

 

As for the game balance I think the fed is on par with others in T2. It is the most balanced tier.

 

 

T1 is hard to judge because for the most part players are new and without the shield/hull regen we get in T2 then most of the empire and jericho special abilities are much better. 

 

T2, we got access to pretty much the basic gear and the first defense mods. Also fights are mostly at mid-range where the Feds frigate are better and can make use of their drones. The armada drones are lacking and the vanguard one don’t always repair either but overall at that tier it’s not that bad. Fortunately the tier 2 is where you can easily min-max your gear and optimize your ships without spending a shitload of money down the road. 

 

T3 is a mess, not even worth talking about, we got so much more offensive new mods and gear that a fully defensive frigate gets blown up in less time it can aim for anything. 

 

T4 is a bit more balanced but quite boring, it’s mostly very long range fights where a bunch of frigates are playing hide and seek. Obviously the feds frigates are at a huge disadvantage, we are forced to improve our main weapon’s range to get around 5000/6000 range efficiency while losing all our mid range/close range effectiveness. At the same times the other frigates have strong short/mid range weapons and use their main abilities (guided bombs or eraser shots) to fight at very long range. And I’m not talking about the fact they can min-max their shield or hull because they have either more base hull/shield than us and make the most out of the mods. 

 

Well, to make it simple I’m a T4 player and I’ll stay at T2 where it’s more balanced for the feds. I also got others faction ships but I find the feds to be the best looking one which is the only reason why it’s my main faction lol

13

Just making judgments based on what I have experienced as a new player.  I thought I saw the looming lack of range threat of that being a problem with fed frigate during my T1 trial with it.  Glad I chose vanguard from the sound of it.  

Also thanks for really calculating what we lose for our speed/energy advantage.  I only took a brief look and made an educated guess.

I would love to see a bit of a shield boost or thermal resistance.

14

Federation ships are totally gimped tank-stat wise (low HP) and the abilities are basically crap compared to other 2 races. Worst faction out of the three, and ofc I picked Fed cause I love their ship design the most.

 

IMO a way to solve this is to give Federation ships more equipment slots than the other 2 races. It would allow players to make their own setups focused more toward shields or armor or damage to circumvent the inherent weakness and worthlessness of Federation ships.

 

PROPOSAL:

 

Switch invisibility and plasma web between Intys and Fighters. That way intys would be glass but perfect for ambushing, and fighters would get some dps when they don’t have tank, at least.

15

PROPOSAL:

Switch invisibility and plasma web between Intys and Fighters. That way intys would be glass but perfect for ambushing, and fighters would get some dps when they don’t have tank, at least.

That sounds like a pretty good idea.

16

I don’t get the hate for fed skills. I love the hide with fighter. The ceptor dot (+debuff) is not the best but still useful.

 

The change between the two is a bad idea. Ceptors have module to hide.

17

I’m a newbie and I started out as the fed, not sure if I should continue or switch (I played around a bit and have every empire at rank 3, so the paths are open). The impression I got so far is that the cloak is situational and can be very good, the plasma web is just plain bad (pretty much the dps of the shield regen on most ships?) and the drones are too vulnerable for the length of the CD. I mean compared to the other two empires, the abilities are on the wrong ships.

 

Also please note that I still use T1 ships, so if anything changes with later tiers, I apologise for not knowing. In terms of usefulness, I would rate the abilities (in each respective ship class) in this order:

 

Interceptors

 

Empire - micro warp drive - I loved this, the ability to get right on top of a beacon  about 5 seconds into the game just seems very handy, also serves as a great escape mechanism

 

Jericho - invulnerability with an aoe root when it ends - A combat ability on an interceptor, but it actually serves quite well - the best trick I managed to pull off with it was grabbing the EMP bomb, running towards their beacon, use it once I got swarmed I popped the cocoon, picked up the bomb again afterwards and went off to cap (I paralysed 2 ships that were attempting to grab the bomb). While it doesn’t allow you to capture a beacon while invulnerable, I’ve still found it very useful.

 

Federation - Plasma web - it looks nice on paper, but the damage it deals is negligible. Some ships will have passive shield regen that rivals the dps output of this, though the -50% armor / shield regen might be useful in a heavy active repair enviroment. Still, out of the three I would rate it dead last.

 

Fighters

 

Empire - Overdrive - pretty much a 66% increase to overall performance of the ship in just about every aspect (energy regen, speed, maneuverability and damage output). In a 1v1 this will most of the time get you a kill, as the damage output increase alone is staggering.

 

Federation - Chameleon cloak - Pretty straightforward, makes you invisible. A great ability for escaping, avoiding an empire fighter that just used his overdrive until it runs out, or sneaking up on an opponent. 

 

Jericho - Phase shield - a passive unique that allows you to switch a bonus to resistance by using it, although at quite an energy price. Very situational, as outside a strict 1v1 engagement, the energy cost is too high and the effect not that great, while noticeable.

 

Frigates

 

Empire - Disintegrator - A lot has been said over this in other threads, it’s just my opinion that the cooldown is way too short for the punch this weapon packs. Once you are engaged in a dogfight or trying to capture an objective, it becomes insanely hard to dodge it, even with the indicator. 

 

Jericho - Guided Torpedo - A mid-long range weapon with a big payload, but a lot of serious drawbacks that make it (in my opinion) completely balanced. The most major difference is the amount of time between firing shots - the longer the distance you’re shooting from, the more time you will spend flying the slow torpedo across space, while leaving your ship stationary. Great for firing from behind a rock, but the travel time, the low turn speed, low refire rate and the fact that your opponents can shoot it down make it a lot harder to use. The only big advantage over the übercannon is that it’s very effective at point blank ranged vs small ships.

 

Federation - Combat drones - the design was nice I suppose, but they are far too fragile for the 45s cooldown they have, as most missiles will oneshot them when they hit you (depending on where you are hit and where the drones are in that moment of course). That said, you need to be in the thick of the fight for the to do anything (even the faction versions just repair or shoot down missiles, so you still need to be in the middle of combat), for which the ships are far too bulky and unless I’m missing something obvious, they have the least hull + shield combined at T4. Their advantage of speed is negligible with the drawbacks of still turning and moving like a brick, especially as you cannot dodge the sniper fire from the other two frigates. 

 

Again, this is my view and I expect that at least a few things change once you hit the higher tiers, so please tell me if anything does change or is the Federation lineup inferior?

18

Check the ship stats, Federation lineup is basically inferior at all tiers armor/shield wise, with “speed and maneuverability” not really compensating.

19

I usually use web as a finisher. Drop it on shields and the shield will regen back. But during the last bit of their life, this is a guaranteed hit if you’re still in range. Yea, won’t kill em, but will do damage while not in line of sight. 

20

The fed support frig has really good staying power just wish I could recall the drones to protect them and then relaunch them with out tripping the cooldown. I would love love love if they could repair other ships since I am playing full support.

 

On my Hawk Interceptors I was messing with using the active shield leech mod follow by plasma web it a good one two combo.