I think we need to remove the “KILL THE ENGINEERS FIRST” mentality from the game.
I think we need to remove the “KILL THE ENGINEERS FIRST” mentality from the game.
Done.
My engi is now a guard
Edit : Crtl+c and Ctrl+v failed !
What will happen is that the engineers will put more on resistance and will play more to save their bottoms as their allies.
Warps gates disappear, replaced by modules survival and restoration. And everyone will cry
The super efficient tools such as proton-wall and ion warhead exists only T3.
For T2, I said and I repeat, some modules make too much damage compared to the resistance of the vessels and the regeneration capacity available…
You mean you don’t already fully tank fit your engineer? I thought that was a no-brainer since 0.8.1.
I think we need to remove the “KILL THE ENGINEERS FIRST” mentality from the game.
That would require other people being killable with reasonable effort when engineer is around. Right now, until engineer is dead, team is effectively half-IDDQD.
Nah, i was working on my Guards, actually trying some new fits for the crusader Type S. And i have some idea for the Anaconda M but I have a lot of work on this one.
Then i realise i can do the same on my Cerberus 2.
The Guardgineers only work for the Cerberus…
I don’t get it. It’s okay that you can effectively one shot an interceptor with a high damage weapon, but it’s not okay that he can be healed for the same amount as a frigate?
What exactly the logic here, besides the “I want my class to be the only OP one”? Or are you advocating percentual DAMAGE as well?
good point - but the weapons don’t make sense either rawr
something just occurred to me. what if:
engineer modules were not role limited to just engineers? :fed007:
ie. we made them open to all ships … that’s how it was before no?
and we give Engineers a bunch of other new toys modules like sentry turrets, mobile respawn points, target lock decoys …
yea i’m bored
Or are you advocating percentual DAMAGE as well?
You already have that. It’s called a small radius and dodging.
What exactly the logic here, besides the “I want my class to be the only OP one”?
Right back at you frankly. Interceptors are dominating T2 and they’re now competitive in T3 as long as you know how to avoid minefields.
The regeneration of hull / shield in the form of a + X pts is a massive advantage for small shields / hull.
I have 28k shields on my Guard, or 70 seconds without being hit to completely regenerate my shields. Except I’m a guard, and stay 1m 10s without doing anything on a part of 12 minutes …
(I take into account my own regen shield, the time would otherwise 1m40s and again, I have a module that increases by 55% my regen shield).
I’m not talking about the hull of Engineers / Guards …
While the interceptor is:
_I Have no shield/hull …
_Ho An engineer!
_ * Makes a loop next to it *
_And *hop* back to shoot everything that moves.
*EXCEL SPREEDSHEET IN PROGRESS*
I need the value for experimental mass shield generator T3 please
The regeneration of hull / shield in the form of a + X pts is a massive advantage for small shields / hull.
I have 28k shields on my Guard, or 70 seconds without being hit to completely regenerate my shields. Except I’m a guard, and stay 1m 10s without doing anything on a part of 12 minutes …
(I take into account my own regen shield, the time would otherwise 1m40s and again, I have a module that increases by 55% my regen shield).
I’m not talking about the hull of Engineers / Guards …
While the interceptor is:
_I Have no shield/hull …
_Ho An engineer!
_ * Makes a loop next to it *
_And *hop* back to shoot everything that moves.
*EXCEL SPREEDSHEET IN PROGRESS*
I need the value for experimental mass shield generator T3 please
No xxxx.
You’re also arguing that “damage in form of x pts is a massive advantage for large shields/hull”.
Also, you’re arguing that 2+2=4 in anything but trinary.
But for some reason, you’re also pretending that this is new, revolutionary and a huge problem.
good point - but the weapons don’t make sense either rawr
something just occurred to me. what if:
engineer modules were not role limited to just engineers? :fed007:
ie. we made them open to all ships … that’s how it was before no?
and we give Engineers a bunch of other new toys modules like sentry turrets, mobile respawn points, target lock decoys …
yea i’m bored
I’ve been suggesting GW2 model for healing for a while. That’s the model where everyone has a powerful self heal on a longish CD and support classes can only have weak heals, and focus on delivering buffs and debuffs instead.
Unfortunately devs appear to prefer WoW system, where you have extremely powerful dedicated healer that is largely irreplaceable and only weak self heals.
But for some reason, you’re also pretending that this is new, revolutionary and a huge problem.
This is not new, the major problem was the “remote”.
Now we have a new issue with the system of healing.
You’re also arguing that “damage in form of x pts is a massive advantage for large shields/hull”.
Nice try but i never speak about the dealing dammage systeme cause we have a lot of tools to work with. I’m only speaking about the balance of regeneration.
One forgotten information, a tiny but could change alot of thing :
The base shield regeneration : 82~85 pts/sec for the ceptor.
94~97 pts/sec for the fighter.
87~91 pts/sec for the frigates.
(Only check T3 with the ships tree).
Is There nothing that disturbs you?
This is not new, the major problem was the “remote”.
Now we have a new issue with the system of healing.
Nice try but i never speak about the dealing dammage systeme cause we have a lot of tools to work with. I’m only speaking about the balance of regeneration.
One forgotten information, a tiny but could change alot of thing :
The base shield regeneration : 82~85 pts/sec for the ceptor.
94~97 pts/sec for the fighter.
87~91 pts/sec for the frigates.
(Only check T3 with the ships tree).
Is There nothing that disturbs you?
Should there be? I see absolutely no problem whatsoever.
And you’re not speaking about damage system for one very simple reason: speaking about it would be admitting that you suggestion is absurd in itself. Essentially we currently have a situation where damage done is the same to everyone barring resists, and healing done is the same as well. Changing it to make healing be effective only on one class of the ships would mean that this class of the ships would become godlike, while rest would become utterly terrible. And whenever anyone takes an engineer, everyone else would want to take a frigate. Because taking something else would make zero sense whasoever.
I will just repeat myself: if lack of proper survivability is an issue, graduate from tutorial tier 2 to gameplay tier 3.
That would require other people being killable with reasonable effort when engineer is around. Right now, until engineer is dead, team is effectively half-IDDQD.
This is why there even is a problem with engineers.
something just occurred to me. what if:
engineer modules were not role limited to just engineers? :fed007:
ie. we made them open to all ships … that’s how it was before no?
and we give Engineers a bunch of other new toys modules like sentry turrets, mobile respawn points, target lock decoys …
yea i’m bored
I dont want to make engineers useless, i want toys for the engineer, target lock decoys sounds awesome.
It’s called a small radius and dodging.
Interceptors large damage migration with ^ + engineers flat heals is the problem.
But for some reason, you’re also pretending that this is new, revolutionary and a huge problem.
This is a old huge problem, the whole support healing system is bullshit.
I’ve been suggesting GW2 model for healing for a while. That’s the model where everyone has a powerful self heal on a longish CD and support classes can only have weak heals, and focus on delivering buffs and debuffs instead.
Unfortunately devs appear to prefer WoW system, where you have extremely powerful dedicated healer that is largely irreplaceable and only weak self heals.
GW2 model sounds good, not the only possible way to solve it, but it’s good enough.
I will just repeat myself: if lack of proper survivability is an issue, graduate from tutorial tier 2 to gameplay tier 3.
I thought this whole thread was about t3+? I see no problem with t2 or t1.
You gotta solve this problem without me, ill be gone for 2 months. Create some nice solutions for me to read when i get back, wont you?
Should there be? I see absolutely no problem whatsoever.
And you’re not speaking about damage system for one very simple reason: speaking about it would be admitting that you suggestion is absurd in itself. Essentially we currently have a situation where damage done is the same to everyone barring resists, and healing done is the same as well. Changing it to make healing be effective only on one class of the ships would mean that this class of the ships would become godlike, while rest would become utterly terrible. And whenever anyone takes an engineer, everyone else would want to take a frigate. Because taking something else would make zero sense whasoever.
I will just repeat myself: if lack of proper survivability is an issue, graduate from tutorial tier 2 to gameplay tier 3.
Luckyo, T2 is not a tutorial Tier. It’s the Tier where you either play competitively by yourself or with others and have fun at the same time. You want tutorials? The game has one already. T1 is the learning curve, T2 is for fun, and anything above that is for competitive play. Currently, T2 is so unbalanced it’s not fun at all.
Luckyo, T2 is not a tutorial Tier. It’s the Tier where you either play competitively by yourself or with others and have fun at the same time. You want tutorials? The game has one already. T1 is the learning curve, T2 is for fun, and anything above that is for competitive play. Currently, T2 is so unbalanced it’s not fun at all.
T1 and T2 are tutorials, T3 is farm and T4 is corp/fun. That was what devs told us a few months ago when asked.
This is why you have missing modules in T1 and T2, while all modules are present in T3 (with obvious exception of engine mods because there is no engine mod slot on any non T4 ships). There’s also the factor that T1 and T2 are built with significantly reduced teamwork requirement due to much more generous damage/survivability ratio (things die much more easily), lower ships speeds (easier to hit) and so on.
T1 and T2 are tutorials, T3 is farm and T4 is corp/fun. That was what devs told us a few months ago when asked.
This is why you have missing modules in T1 and T2, while all modules are present in T3 (with obvious exception of engine mods because there is no engine mod slot on any non T4 ships). There’s also the factor that T1 and T2 are built with significantly reduced teamwork requirement due to much more generous damage/survivability ratio (things die much more easily), lower ships speeds (easier to hit) and so on.
I don’t see T2 as a tutorial, no matter what anyone says. It’s fun, good for farming up until about Rank 9 and also - when playing against former T3 players who have downgraded due to the balancing issues - does promote team play to a fair degree.
To echo Jasan’s argument, when you’re fighting a gunship and you see a command ship turn up do you instantly think “zomg! a buff ship! better stop what I’m doing and kill that first!”. Presumably not, meaning if engineer buffs were lowered to the power of command buffs you wouldn’t drop what you’re doing and kill the engineer like you have to now.
I think we need to remove the “KILL THE ENGINEERS FIRST” mentality from the game.
Unfortunately devs appear to prefer WoW system, where you have extremely powerful dedicated healer that is largely irreplaceable and only weak self heals.
Antibus made several comments already indicating that they want the engineers played in a certain fashion. A fair ask from developers wanting to stay true to their visions. Which made me think about a one stone two birds solution …
Using Engineer’s own shields to power up Heal modules instead of using energy
I’m not a numbers guy so I will leave that out (for someone else) but the idea behind it should work
This will get engy pilots to fly like how Gaijin wants them
This will also fulfill this thread’s aim - take priority away from the engineers
AND - is random team friendly
You don’t have to kill engineers, just assign a DPS guy to keep shields down on engineers so he cannot heal his team. The rest of the other pilots can go about their business of killing other stuff.
Healers wouldn’t be irreplaceable, but they would certainly be played differently and a tad manageable to deal with.
Thoughts?
[Gets my vote](< base_url >/index.php?/topic/19516-shield-transfer/?p=203060)
how the hell did I miss that ?
in my defense - it’d be less of a shock trauma if it’s a simple switch over of using energy to shields on the existing modules rather than replacing them with new ones.