Ceptors under Engineering heals will do that, yes…
AS I SAID… Tacklers are a SUPPORT ship, not an ASSAULT ship…
I just tested the ‘Engine suppressor’ in conjunction with a ‘slowing missile’. Guess what? An interceptor can still out maneuver a tackler at close range! Plain BS! Moreover I saw interceptors at rank 8 with 12,000 pts which is more or less the same as a tackler at the same level but with superior maneuverability. Moreover, they also had hull and shield regeneration! Can you believe that!? I mean just how much more OP can you get? Forget the ‘firepower’ of the bigger ships. There is no such thing at close range. At close range all that matters is whether you can hit the opponent or not. The tackler is in NO way capable of doing its role at the moment in a 1v1 battle unless the interceptor is busy doing something else and you get a head start on it. This is about a ship that is meant to go “hunt and kill” an interceptor not hide behind a frigate and spam target paint.
Well, as much as that would be great, it is not really that bad, let me try to explain.
By no means you are able to kite good interceptors pilots on your own, but you can still snare them and let your teammates do the work finishing them off, you only need to position yourself properly and do one, well aimed shot (with a proper weapon for this situation and playstyle). If you cannot outmanever every interceptor in the game easily, it does not mean that this is a bad class. It just takes some skill.
I was always saying it is the hardest ship to master, and I still stand by that. But, it is not a bad class, and is very useful in current metagame under most cirumstances. It’s not a mechanics problem with the tackler modules, it’s how you fly it. You are trying to solo it, and that does not work.
Most important things to know:
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You need a proper team. Without a squad with solid teamwork that will cover you whenever you are under fire, you can forget about using the tackler.
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Even when you have the team, all of you need to know how to stay together, and respond to help your teammates in time.
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Your team also needs to know their role and how to compliment the advantages you are providing, this also includes proper squad build for all 4 teammates.
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Your positiong is the most important here. And this takes experience. As I said, tackler is the hardest class to master.
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Be aware of your counters, you have to expect, predict and counter them before it is too late.
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Also, have a properly fitted tackler ship. It depends on the tier and type of ship, but certain modules and weapons work much better than others, this is also connected to what the rest of your team brings.
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As for your build, it also depends on the map and the enemy team you are facing, this is something an experienced player can figure out on his own, when a certain situation calls for certain choices in your fits, but it can still be done in most situations well. It’s a fun and rewarding class to fly.
The modules do not need a change, except maybe target painter, which effect is barely noticable in current high resist metagame. I, for myself, find the class pretty overpowered in certain situations, and I rarely die with it as well (about once in every 10 battles or so, SR ~1800ish, achieved mostly with the tackler), which is mainly a result of our squad’s preparation, experience and teamwork.
I would only suggest to not try getting more frustrated with the tackler until you can fulfill most of the requirements I listed, and try flying a more solid, easier class until than.
I hope this helps. Just do not give up on it, there are certain things that come with time, and most important is to have a good group of friends, that can give you advice and work with you as a team. I wish you best of luck with learning the class, or any other for that matter. Fly safe.
Everything Neocodex stated is true, i suffered to max my Silent Fox, because it is a garbage ship (rank 7) and because of ratings and so i was fighting superior firepower all the time.
But in some battles, when the team was kinda good, and when i blinked a target they focused it, interceptors were not a problem i could rip some ppl off using gauss cannon sometimes, with little range increase, but the main thing is to be extremelly carefull, think that you are driving a ship made of crystal, and the minimal touch could break it, thats how you need to fly tacklers (if pugging), if on a squad, as neo stated it can be EXTREMELLY usefull, ive seen some ESB squads applying tacklers on me for example, target painter makes an empire gunship becomes fragile enough to be blown to pieces very easily along with speed inhibitors, and the invisibility made it possible for them to ambush more resilient peoeple and kill them with ease. BUT they NEVER tried to use it as a spearhead, the same behavior i found on WPK when i fly with them and neo goes tackler, it is just a matter of piloting skill (i cant do xxxx with it, but ive seen people who can) so dont complain something is tooo damn broken when in fact it is just slightly UP and a few tiny tunes could make it more viable in pugs.
AS I SAID… Tacklers are a SUPPORT ship, not an ASSAULT ship…
You just clearly don’t understand what this type of ship is supposed to do and keep trolling on this thread. Here are key sentences from the Star Conflict wikis:
Tackler ships are designed to take out Covert Ops and Recon ships
Their speed debuffs allow them to slow an interceptor down to allow the tackler to dogfight with them
Read them again and again.
This ship is supposed to take on interceptors and dogfight with them. Key word: dogfight. I even bolded it for you. This ship was given SPEED and AGILITY for that purpose. It was also given speed and movement debuffs. However, this ship is NOT capable of dog-fighting interceptors on it’s own. The interceptors are too agile even when “suppressed”. That is why this is the hardest ship class to play.
This thread is about why the “Engine Suppressor” module does not affect all engine related components to give the tackler an opportunity. This is not about me or you and how you use this ship.
… i suffered to max my Silent Fox, because it is a garbage ship (rank 7) and because of ratings and so i was fighting superior firepower all the time.
But in some battles, when the team was kinda good, and when i blinked a target they focused it, interceptors were not a problem …
This ship needs to be revised so that you don’t have to rely on being in a ‘good’ team to make any use of it. Thanks for supporting my points indirectly! I opened this thread to suggest a boost to the ‘Engine Suppressor’ module but any boost to the ship would help.
If you want to dogfight, fighters are not meant for that. Your roll and pitch are too slow in practice for it. It is a tracker ship, used for debuffing and snaring, as a form of teamwork. You cannot fight fire with water as if they were equals. The counter is applied differently, they have both different properties, and should be handled differently. The weapons that a fighter class ship can carry are bigger, the ship has more armor and more weight , also more advanced equipment. There is no logical way that it could be able to outmaneuver a lighter ship, even if a lighter ship is slowed down (and the way you demand the slowdown to be so excessive, it would be way too overpowered).
Taking what says on some wiki page for literal and arguing with players that can give actual practical advice about the metagame is not a productive behavior, I implore you to listen to our advice and ignore what it says on the wiki. Last I check the game is still in beta, and it suffered some very severe changes in the last year.
And for the record, you can still dogfight it when your target is debuffed, it’s just not the easiest thing to pull off. Still easier to debuff, do some evading, and let your team help finishing him off (you fly in the direction so he is exposed to your team fire as he is following you into oblivion; the basics of star conflict rules of engagement). As a form of reference to other games, you are ideally not using snares to get away and defend yourself, or even go deep in the fight, but you use it to snare and help your team finish something off, and get away quick.
I have used imperial commands to dogfight on occasion, the way i fly them they are quite a threat to ceptors at close range. Still prefer hunting frigates with them though.
You just clearly don’t understand what this type of ship is supposed to do and keep trolling on this thread. Here are key sentences from the Star Conflict wikis:
Tackler ships are designed to take out Covert Ops and Recon ships
Their speed debuffs allow them to slow an interceptor down to allow the tackler to dogfight with them
Read them again and again.
This ship is supposed to take on interceptors and dogfight with them. Key word: dogfight. I even bolded it for you. This ship was given SPEED and AGILITY for that purpose. It was also given speed and movement debuffs. However, this ship is NOT capable of dog-fighting interceptors on it’s own. The interceptors are too agile even when “suppressed”. That is why this is the hardest ship class to play.
This thread is about why the “Engine Suppressor” module does not affect all engine related components to give the tackler an opportunity. This is not about me or you and how you use this ship.
The wiki is more outdated than last century! That was in a time when Tacklers actually DID that job successfully! I am telling you what they do NOW. In NOWADAYS mechanics! It’s a Support ship.
(just to piss off Rakza) So is guard a suport ship!!!
kkkkkkkkkkkkk
Jokes apart, trust their advice, they have been playing this game full of bugs longer than many ppl. And yes, tacklers can only dogfight BAD INT PILOTS, but bad int pilots even a frigate can dogfight them.
Im starting to think that you are one of the hated players that on realistic use a tackler and charge to try killing along all the inties that are on the enemy team, then start complaining they couldnt kill.
It’s nice to see WPK members helping each other out but I’m just pointing out the facts and they are being ignored…
Maybe you found a niche for its handicaps in game and that’s fine. The point is that If you don’t use it as it was meant to be used then obviously it wasn’t done right.
WPK are forum warriors, if they have thr same opinions they will help each other.
And they are giving valid points although I don’t agree with some of them.
I’m not a Wolfpack member, so I guess I can give an ‘unbiased’ view, so to speak. As a tackler pilot I have to say that tacklers don’t work as advertised.
I just tested the ‘Engine suppressor’ in conjunction with a ‘slowing missile’. Guess what? An interceptor can still out maneuver a tackler at close range! Plain BS! Moreover I saw interceptors at rank 8 with 12,000 pts which is more or less the same as a tackler at the same level but with superior maneuverability. Moreover, they also had hull and shield regeneration! Can you believe that!? I mean just how much more OP can you get? Forget the ‘firepower’ of the bigger ships. There is no such thing at close range. At close range all that matters is whether you can hit the opponent or not. The tackler is in NO way capable of doing its role at the moment in a 1v1 battle unless the interceptor is busy doing something else and you get a head start on it. This is about a ship that is meant to go “hunt and kill” an interceptor not hide behind a frigate and spam target paint.
You’re right about the 1v1 part. Right now tacklers excel at ganking. Stick with some allies, single out an inty and focus fire it. I usually roam around and respond to pings.
I would agree with almost everything that NeoCodex said. Tacklers are tough to fly, but if you’re creative enough with your tactics you can play mind games with your enemies. TP + IB can sometimes force a covops or recon pilot to cloak; your almost nonexistent cooldown means that you can slap these debuffs on immediately when they decloak, or even stack on engine suppressor. I believe xKosty or Ory mentioned something about the sentry drone being a underrated module: it is situational but once you understand its strengths and the typical player’s response to it, it can be very useful.
Everything Neocodex stated is true, i suffered to max my Silent Fox, because it is a garbage ship (rank 7) and because of ratings and so i was fighting superior firepower all the time.
It’s not that garbage; I had an easier time maxing it out as compared to the Katana AE. But then again, maybe I prefer my tacklers quick and agile.
The way this game works is that first you have to come up with a tactic+build+game plan in your head and then you have to pick a ship to execute this game plan, i agree that in T3 Tacklers kinda less effective than other ships, even in a squad, but only in T3. Going up in T4+ there are implants to come with your game plan. Every ship has its limits and you can not or will be ineffective by trying to make it do something else. Forexample in T4-T5 there are 3 federation tackler (i am ignoring Jericho due to mechanics of shield tanking) Tiger 2, Lion and Lion 2 to choose from, for my game plan i use Tiger 2 even though i do have access and modules to lion/lion2.
In T1-T2 Federation Tacklers are ones of the best killers of everything
T3 meh
T4-T5 have its solid place in a team play and Engine suppressor is extremely good module as it is
Parallax is also pretty nice in T3, and so is the Panther in T4, they are worthy of trying them out (if you like rails).
Mr. KitLatura, I understand your frustration and I honestly wish that the class was slightly more stronger as it is now, but I don’t think it’s as broken as you make it to be. What we are saying is, it’s not an easy I-win button against interceptors as you probably want it to be, and some of us actually like the fact that there is a class in the game that actually requires some amount of skill to be decent at. And to be honest, by no means do I want an easy I-win counter button everytime I fly an interceptor that takes no skill to kill in interceptor, statis on the ecm is bad enough already. Imagine the rage and frustration of all the interceptor pilots in the game.
Right now it’s just some of the pilots that are frustrated that cannot fly tackler well and don’t understand it, but if they buff this than everyone flying the interceptor will be frustrated because using the overpowered tackler debuffs would be a no-brain job to take down good pilots. I can already see all the “nerf the tackler modules! That ship takes no skill to fly, ruining the game” posts, like we already had complaints about statis, and they had to nerf it to half the duration, and even now it’s dangerous enough. So, yeah, and no, tackler is fine. We barely found some kind of balance in the game. I just say take a look at target painter and sentry drone maybe.
Right now it’s just some of the pilots that are frustrated that cannot fly tackler well and don’t understand it, but if they buff this than everyone flying the interceptor will be frustrated because using the overpowered tackler debuffs would be a no-brain job to take down good pilots.
Oh, you mean actually having a counter to Ceptor swarms other than Guardballs that no one uses and aren’t effective at all? Yeah, real shame if they buff that.
As you said, guardballs are outdated and so pre-0.9.10, the balance is much better now. One guard can still wreak havoc against bad inty swarms, there is a difference between a swarm of good ceptor pilots and a swarm of average ceptor pilots. You just have to be better, I think we are past the point to blame the game balance now.
Seems you are having problems with a tackler, thinking it is the final answer to any interceptor player. Well, you are wrong.
The tackler is an ambusher, you don’t have dps boost, or survivability boost. You need the surprise to kill your enemies, and you must know which are your targets and which are not.
I had no problems at all levelling tier 3 tacklers, and I played both of them the same way, which I will try to explain:
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First of all, range. You are a squishy ship, even the jerry one, so you need to stay far from the fray. I used ion emitters with flat reflectors and horizon modules (where I could) so I had a nice 5000 m range, with 3700 optimal, which means anything I get in the suppresor is in optimal range.
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Stay with the team, poke enemies, farm assists with the target painter and the afterburner suppresor. They don’t have recharge time, and are great for debuffing frigates and fighters.
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Look out for recons, they are your greatest enemies, and in case you got droned, stay back and wait for the drones to dissapear. A droned tackler is a dead tackler.
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Use your camo module for retreat OR for ambushes. Ambushes should be done from behind, always, and you should not allow the enemy to know what is happening. Just uncloak, burn all modules and kick his xxxx fast, then retreat. If the ambush fails, try to run. Even the Katana AE is quite fast if properly fitted, and you should be able to perma AB.
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Engine supressor should only be used against fast fighters (fed ones) and ceptors.
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Never dogfight. Stay at 2000 meters and break contact if the enemy gets closer. Use the speed debuffs to keep the enemy at range. A ceptor at 2000 meters without AB and with suppressed engine will melt in seconds if your aim is decent. But closer he can outmanouver you, even if he is slow, because he has superior roll rate and maneuverability.
Always remember, you are not a warrior, not a tank, you are a ninja. Strike fast, run and hide, rinse and repeat.
Parallax is also pretty nice in T3, and so is the Panther in T4, they are worthy of trying them out (if you like rails).
Rails are kinda meh, right? At least, I don’t think assault rails can compete with other weapons in T4. I don’t use gauss so I’m not sure about how powerful a gauss Panther would be.
Parallax favours singularities over any other weapon.
Seems you are having problems with a tackler, thinking it is the final answer to any interceptor player. Well, you are wrong.
The tackler is an ambusher, you don’t have dps boost, or survivability boost. You need the surprise to kill your enemies, and you must know which are your targets and which are not.
I had no problems at all levelling tier 3 tacklers, and I played both of them the same way, which I will try to explain:
First of all, range. You are a squishy ship, even the jerry one, so you need to stay far from the fray. I used ion emitters with flat reflectors and horizon modules (where I could) so I had a nice 5000 m range, with 3700 optimal, which means anything I get in the suppresor is in optimal range.
Stay with the team, poke enemies, farm assists with the target painter and the afterburner suppresor. They don’t have recharge time, and are great for debuffing frigates and fighters.
Look out for recons, they are your greatest enemies, and in case you got droned, stay back and wait for the drones to dissapear. A droned tackler is a dead tackler.
Use your camo module for retreat OR for ambushes. Ambushes should be done from behind, always, and you should not allow the enemy to know what is happening. Just uncloak, burn all modules and kick his xxxx fast, then retreat. If the ambush fails, try to run. Even the Katana AE is quite fast if properly fitted, and you should be able to perma AB.
Engine supressor should only be used against fast fighters (fed ones) and ceptors.
Never dogfight. Stay at 2000 meters and break contact if the enemy gets closer. Use the speed debuffs to keep the enemy at range. A ceptor at 2000 meters without AB and with suppressed engine will melt in seconds if your aim is decent. But closer he can outmanouver you, even if he is slow, because he has superior roll rate and maneuverability.
Tacklers with range bonuses work perfectly as a mid to long range fighter. Even without the range bonus, blue TP and engine suppressor have a range of 2.8k, which is enough for sniping.
Ions are good for sniping, but do note that you have to aim well. But ion tacklers do have one very distinct advantage: you can slay frigates from range. It’s also possible to duel other fighters (admittedly I cheated by dropping sentry drones).
Tacklers can dogfight, but you will need to configure your ship appropriately and have the right implants. Singularities should be your preferred weapon: the huge AoE makes it easy to hit intys despite the low projectile speed.
Always remember, you are not a warrior, not a tank, you are a ninja. Strike fast, run and hide, rinse and repeat.
Pretty much the mode of operation of a tackler. Never attract too much attention. If you’re under heavy fire, odds are, you did something wrong.
I will quote one of my older posts on how to fly the tackler ambusher, you need a specific mentality for it, kind of like something that Eviscerador described. This sums it up pretty nicely, so heed these words, noble pilot:
_ “Mentality of a Tackler pilot” _
I am the the anti-interceptor.
I am the anti-fighter.
I will not brawl with the frigates.
I am not on the front line.
I am not at the rear guard.
I am coming from the side.
I am the clean-up crew.
I am the hero that saves a swarmed assault.
I exist to hear “Thanks 4 the help.”
I am neither the sword nor the shield.
I am the hidden dagger concealed in a swordsman’s boot.
I am the cheap shot.
I am the killing blow.
If I bring any other mentality while flying the tackler, then I am a rusted pile of junk left floating in space.
Also, real tackler pros use gauss cannons, even on the Parallax. And can dogfight for a bit as well (ion emitter is the worst dogfight weapon). Singularity will force you to get close and kill yourself, the mechanic of the weapon conflicts with the tackler playstyle. We have gunships for that role. Fill in your niche and work with your team, you don’t need singularity on your ship if your gunships have them. Putting singularity on a tackler is closed-minded thinking, think more outside of the box and maybe you will succeed. Just saying.
The day players will understand that Tackler don’t go in the middle of a fight but stay near the objectives which have to be protected or near the engineer.