ECM/Inty complete rework

Suggestions Balance
61

@Oryngton - has your reply not adequately stated that ECM’s are in fact not totally OP and that other classes have their own purpose and place in combat? You mention yourself that Recon and Cov Ops can kill more effectively.

 

I don’t argue that ECM could do with some tweaking (as previously stated), but a complete overhaul or being completely OP as stated by other posters, I just don’t agree with.

I said they killed slower. They are still incredibly effective because, with the same fit, they’re likely to just kill everything they face, including Guards and Engineers. Last time I tried to take out an Engi, solo, it took me almost a minute. Or more. But he did die. Is it more effective than other ships? Not really. But I don’t really think you can bring out one ship with one fit and effectively kill every other ship role as effectively as the ECM does. Maybe the Tackler or Gunship, but it’d be relatively hard for their guns to kill certain ships.

 

My point of “ECM is broken” is purely because they don’t do much in “Electronic Counter Measures”. All they do, is prevent YOU from doing anything, even firing your guns. Imo, that’s not the role of “ECM”, that’s Electronic Warfare. I would definitely like to see, how it’s been said earlier by someone (sorry, forgot your name) to see ECM turned into EW and act like a Support ship, instead of an offensive one. I want to see AoE Debuffs that help your entire team and not just yourself, I want to see this role turned upside down and made useful for the entire team. This ship, as it stands now, is wrong.

62

 

Funky is quite correct here. @betatrash - please ensure you post comments which are a little more informed.

 

For example, you have repeatedly used League of Legends as an example of poor competitive environment which isn’t that successful and which many gamers don’t like, which is incredibly misguided.

 

As for Riot Games:

  • The business is currently valued around $1,5 Billion.

 

you pulled all your talking points from wikipedia?

 

yet they can’t even afford to fix simple camera issues that would cost at most 15,000$ in developer time… or add more maps… or fix a plethora of other bugs which exist in the game… pretty simple stuff, costing at most 50-100,000$ to fix…

 

nope, they can’t even do that…  that is a successful game? based on what metrics? the amount of free users playing the game? or the amount of new champions released each month?

 

or the 400$ million tencent buyout price? 400 mil valuation amounts to roughly 40-80mil revenue per year, out of which net profit is even lower… possibly in the 17-35$ million range… you know what that is? peanuts… my uncle’s transportation firm does 50$+ million revenue per year, 10$+ million profits :\ that’s peanuts… he has a single location warehouse servicing only USA and canada… maybe you should just start a transportation company instead…

 

even ccp (eve online) makes more revenue than riot games…

 

in fact, a lot of their revenue comes from hosting gaming tournaments… the prize money comes from advertising and admission, since LoL is a spectator sport, as i already described. big events with sugar-spiked sodas and chip-bins… carbohydrates + MSG = winning combination.

 

furthermore, how can they be valued at 1.5$ billino 1.5 years after buyout? does that make any sense? a 300% increase in revenues? i don’t think that correlates to reality in any fashion… inflated value? you bet your bottom…

 

this is in fact a perfect example to illustrate my case…

 

of what not to do as a gaming company… or don’t do as wargaming did and blow all your cash on tournaments and prizes and throwing a huge party instead of fixing the game. lmao :smiley: pretty much same thing zombie studios did with blacklight retribution.

63

simply put, as it stands, frigballs are still a problem. i dont see why giving ECM interceptors more actual ECM options to counter missile spam in dogfights and a loadout of torpedoes (which also need a rework) to act as anti-frigate weapons is a bad idea… aka bomber squadrons like in homeworld franchise/wing commander/etc… which also dual in a ECM support role.

 

currently, you have some of the ecm stuff on covert ops, white noise jammer… has more speed, and and plasma arc, which pretty much points to the fact that COs are meant to be frigate bombers.

 

recently had a chance to fly a lot of covert ops and i gotta say, plasma arc is broken lmao… pop a frig in 3-5 seconds, outmaneuver any figher/inty, even popped like 5 intys using plasma arcs :\ … and a few command fighters lol… and a commander in a command fighter… huehue

 

hell even popped frigs on multiple occassions while dodging fire from 2-3 enemy inty/fighters, then i notice a engi or something… rush it!.. missiles! web! fire! plama arc! more missiles up its butt… no chance in hell it’sll survive :slight_smile:

 

you probably won’t either, from the explosion and incoming fighter fire, but it’s worth it haha… for almost no effort involved ;p

 

and yea, i also came across another 2-3 games where it was all corps/squads on the enemy team, and was getting chain-disabled by ECM interceptors… and tacklers spamming slowing field missiles everywhere too. the visual effect for those is annoying…

64

The game is set up so that each ship can take out each other ship.

In some cases this is easy, while in others it needs some decent skill.

65

i dunno, kinda OT, but LRF requires no skill…

 

it’s more of a hit or miss… if target change trajectory while the shot is fired, and you don’t compensate for that, the shot may miss.

 

otherwise, it’s pretty easy-button if you know what i mean… just sit there and point-click your way to top kills… :\

 

imo, ecm needs rework to eliminate all these chain-disables or people will get fed up real fast…

 

as for covert and recon, can’t really say much. recon seems handy and situational, which is generally good. no comment on drones yet.

 

covert damage potential seems a bit off the charts, but still testing.

66

i dunno, kinda OT, but LRF requires no skill…

 

it’s more of a hit or miss… if target change trajectory while the shot is fired, and you don’t compensate for that, the shot may miss.

 

otherwise, it’s pretty easy-button if you know what i mean… just sit there and point-click your way to top kills… :\

 

imo, ecm needs rework to eliminate all these chain-disables or people will get fed up real fast…

 

as for covert and recon, can’t really say much. recon seems handy and situational, which is generally good. no comment on drones yet.

 

covert damage potential seems a bit off the charts, but still testing.

ECM’s defensive, not offensive.  It can offend while using it’s defensive abilities but it’s still defensive.  CO’s offensive but nerfed.  Recon’s a mix, but parasitic remodulator’s OP against a lot of ships.  One button and shields can be gone fast.

 

Empire LRF requires minimal skill.  I’ve barely played it, just enough to get the basics and I figured I could boost my DSR a fair bit at the time.  Jericho LRF requires skill and, and some luck.  You have to hope no guards are near your missile, and no one’s attacking you while you’re absolutely blind.

67

Seeing people who can’t shoot if their life depended on it have 1700 DSR from abusing their ECMs makes me want to quit this game. I don’t like playing them, because I don’t like being on the receiving end. But from a tactical standpoint they seem superior to any other kind of interceptor.

It’s not so much that there are disables at all. It’s that they’re so concentrated on one ship that makes them so infuriating.

When I engage an ECM, every single one follows the exact same strategy: first I can’t do anything for 4 seconds, then I can move but not fight for 8 seconds, then for another 8 seconds I can shoot but can’t use modules or afterburner because I have no energy. If I get to this point and am finally allowed to do anything and land some shots, he activates metastable field.

One guy once told me ingame that I am stupid and should stop whining about it. So I asked what I was supposed to do against ECM. And he said, in all seriousness, that I should dodge the effects. And by dodging he meant hiding behind rocks and such. So not only am I supposed to not engage ECM in 1on1, because they will always have the advantage. I also need to hug some asteroid simply because an ECM is camping the opposite side.

68

Please keep this discussion on topic. Any form of personal attacks or swearing towards other users will not be tolerated.

69

The game is set up so that each ship can take out each other ship.

In some cases this is easy, while in others it needs some decent skill.

My point is that ECM isn’t doing any ECM’ing. It’s EW, in general. At the very least have them rename the role to EW…

70

Months ago when overpowered healing first surfaced I got 100+ downvotes because I suggested that there was a counter for it via the ECM. Several updates later, here we are moaning how overpowered ECMs are. The irony. Especially considering they received no specific buffs whatsoever. They are essentially the same ship as it was back then. Difference now is, more people are flying it.

 

When all you guys point out are the advantages of ECM ofcourse it’ll seem OP. But like any other ship in SCon it has their own sets of flaws.

 

  1. ECMs are interceptors

  2. Have weak survivability

  3. Can only fit short range weapons now

  4. Poor energy

  5. No damage modifiers

  6. No HP modifiers

  7. No speed modifiers

  8. A self defense mechanism that can backfire on itself

  9. Requires a good tactical understanding to flawlessly string his modules together

  10. Has only one shot at getting things right or else.

 

Doesn’t take a mastermind to come up with atleast 3 counters for ECMs.

 

But I dare not suggest for fear of more downvotes.

71

But I dare not suggest for fear of more downvotes.

 

Downvotes no longer exist - and constructive feedback is always welcomed.

72

Nah. Nerf them OP ECMs. Create more imbalances. It’ll feed for future moans.

73

Doesn’t take a mastermind to come up with atleast 3 counters for ECMs.

Please do carry on, you got my attention.

I can think of 2: white noise and hugging a rock.

74

Sniper is always a good start against any inties. Refer to moans in 0.9 patch discussion thread :stuck_out_tongue:

 

Guard, Tackler, Laser, Volley Missiles, Tact Missiles, Heals, just about everything SCon offers really.

 

[to be fair]

 

  1. one on one they have a distinct advantage but not so much that a good aim and common sense cannot work around
  • for eg a CovOps vs ECM chasing after the same beacon. Now ECM can win both the beacon and kills if the CovOp pilot is inexperienced

 

  1. most of ECM’s weak points are at range and when he hasn’t committed to an attack run yet. But if he does manage to get in within your sphere of influence then it’s pretty much damage control on your end as you cannot stop him from doing his thing. Making sure he doesn’t get out alive is normally the SOP. I can live with that. Some can’t.
75

Doesn’t take a mastermind to come up with atleast 3 counters for ECMs.

 

I can think of 2: white noise and hugging a rock.

 

Simplest solution: gang up. Rush in with two teammates and engage simultaneously. Too many enemies, not enough disables. And once the cocoon comes on, lock on, fly far away, and watch the top left corner for when the cocoon wears off. It serves as a good reminder to turn around and continue engaging.

76

I launch a missile before cocoon pops, hull normally follow suit shortly after.

77

Recon, covert ops, ecm. they are all 3 op, so what’s the problem?

Recon: shield draining module, drones, proximity mines, micro-warp into the enemy captain.

Covert ops, I don’t even need to tell you why this is op :stuck_out_tongue:

ecm, ion and stasis.

ion, you can run around.

stasis, lasts only for a short time.

energy drain can be canceled by anyone flying behind a rock.

78

also, Recon is the counter against ECM.

if not the counter, they are equals.

79

I’m betting in another 2 months when the ECM has been nerfed until it’s useless because of all this QQ’ing, you’ll be complaining the Recon is OP or maybe the LRF is OP because it has 6 guns when nobody else does.   

 

You wanna counter an ecm?  A tackler and recon is a good start.

80

ecm breaks almost everything in the game: command ships and engineers especially, tacklers, assaults, even guards.

 

basically all fighters are worthless because of this thing, and some other units as well…

 

that’s the best way i can put it…

 

energy denial should still be handy on commands and engies. but being able to disable all their actives as well, 2 or 3 times in a row, or more with multiple ecm boats is just broken. it makes them useless in their roles, and since they have no other specializations… they’re just floating targets at that point, not even able to provide a benefit to their team.

 

then again, interceptors just outclass fighters in most cases… which really isn’t the role of an interceptor… and all has to do with the fact that they are way too maneuvarable compared to fighters in general. fighters need to be more agile to combat interceptors… that’s their role :\ air superiority to be able to swat down incoming aluminum cans… but they can’t even do that…

 

imo, repurpose ion emitters, allow them to shut down offensive modules only, or reduce their duration to 1-2 seconds so they can shut down guards, tacklers, etc… energy absorber should be used for shutting down command/engi effectively.

 

turn stasis field into an invulnerability to all missiles, and negative/slowing effects for 6-10 seconds and a damage reduction of 50% for 3-5 seconds.

 

turn energy absorber into a DOT like plasma web, and simply have it nullify energy instead of transferring it, or no change.

 

give the ECM a new active which provides allies in a radius a chance to dodge missiles

 

remove stasis entirely.

 

if you want you can get crazy with on-hit effects for weapons as i described in OP.

 

honestly, what you should just do is balance the effectiveness of covert and ecm vs guard and engi, and you’re all fine… those are their roles after all as per their description (interceptor)… after you fix the fighters that is…

 

there’s no way they should outclass fighters in combat. part of that problem are guided vs unguided missiles. you can hit 80%+ accuracy with unguided. try hitting a ceptor with guided missiles… lmao… if you can even get your nose on them… so people hug walls… imo hugging walls = strange gameplay to say the least…