You should not forget the 50% Heal debuff from Spy Drones, this can be really usefull against engineers.
yeah it is, but it’s not that bad. The duration is the real problem since it takes so long to get rid of it.
Don’t forget though that anti-controlling modules/implants help a ton already. The implant is a true sacrifice, but the CPU modifier is kinda the only good one anyway(besides spread reduce).
as already stated. having to equip 1-2 modules on each ship just to reduce, not counter an ability on a single ship or even a single ability is just imbalanced… it’s a cheap gimmick for people who like to get easy kills.
furthermore, combat reboot does nothing if you use it too early and are disabled 2 seconds later… but it is the only counter… although pretty useless due to the duration. if anything all it does is force a active skill cycle on the ECM, and also forces the CR cycle… its a 1-for-1 trade… that isn’t a counter really… a counter should always be more effective/cheaper than the actual skill used…
in any case, ECM is an ill thought out idea… unless you’re going for the LoL CC stunlock gameplay style… i can see how it might work… but i fail to see how that will appeal to experienced video game players…
ECM’s are best in a double team, not a solo takeout. You’re focusing on the ECM, not the teamwork.
ECM’s are best in a double team, not a solo takeout. You’re focusing on the ECM, not the teamwork.
i think that’s what my point was, quite clearly… when facing off against multiple opponents, nobody likes to be randomly disabled/stunlocked… so nobody engages and people sit there at 3-5k and shoot missiles at eachother :\ whoever engages first gets shut down and spammed to death lol… and if you want to reduce it you have to give up a crapload of survivability, especially in lower tiers.
so, what about the idea of putting torpedoes on intys/ECM… and turning them into torpedo bombers for dealing with frigates…
you’d have to implement the other ideas tho: so inty can increase lockon times on them, etc to get in closer, and provide chance to dodge missiles. then they can do bombing runs on frigballs all day… :\ and protect the fleet from enemy missiles using ECM, plus provide some debuffs to enemy targetting systems or other features…
those are the roles of a interceptor/electronic warfare plane in one, as the name in the game implies.
also, change the name of ‘IR flares’… that still bothers the hell out of me… as if future guidance systems would be IR only :\
i think that’s what my point was, quite clearly… when facing off against multiple opponents, nobody likes to be randomly disabled/stunlocked… so nobody engages and people sit there at 3-5k and shoot missiles at eachother :\ whoever engages first gets shut down and spammed to death lol… and if you want to reduce it you have to give up a crapload of survivability, especially in lower tiers.
How do you have to give up survivability to fend off ECM? It takes a CPU modifier and at worst an implant that otherwise increased your optimal or your crit chance.
How do you have to give up survivability to fend off ECM? It takes a CPU modifier and at worst an implant that otherwise increased your optimal or your crit chance.
actually, you forgot reduced lockon time by 50%, which means a lot for survivability of a fighter in close combat. but DPS also amounts to survivability. 6.5% crit chance which basically amounts to an extra 6.5% extra DPS depending on other modifiers, could be higher.
and again, the implant increases your lockon times (bad for cqc) due to the one you have to give up, and also reduced your DPS by 10% (due to the 10% crit chance on that other plant)…
basically you’d have to gimp your lockon times by 25-50% and your dps by 16.5%…
edit: btw, there’s a bug with the R2 implant. it’s not 75% target lock reduction. i used to think it was 25%, but i tested it now and it’s actually 40-44.444%… or something 
those are just rounded…
Some small balance tweaks are more than welcome. There are a number of ways to achieve this that don’t nerf the class but rather re-balance it a little. E.g. you could decrease the duration of the ‘shutdown’ style effects but also reduce the cooldown of said module. This would keep the ECM useful but requires more active involvement from the pilot and makes the class slightly more ‘disruptive’ in game play rather than press a button -> shut down someone for ages.
Similarly, you could require line of sight for all ECM effects - meaning that you can’t fly in, shut someone down and fly out - and skilled pilots could make use of terrain to shake an ECM more effectively.
I also believe the F could do with a rework. The invulnerability effect which still allows the capping of beacons is not good as it means a full ecm team could fly into a beacon, pop F and cap it. Imagine doing this a few times in realistic mode, there is no counter to this whatsoever.
I’ve always wondered why the F on an ECM doesn’t function like the white noise jammer, that would have made a lot more sense than the cov ops having that module?
Some small balance tweaks are more than welcome. There are a number of ways to achieve this that don’t nerf the class but rather re-balance it a little. E.g. you could decrease the duration of the ‘shutdown’ style effects but also reduce the cooldown of said module. This would keep the ECM useful but requires more active involvement from the pilot and makes the class slightly more ‘disruptive’ in game play rather than press a button -> shut down someone for ages.
Similarly, you could require line of sight for all ECM effects - meaning that you can’t fly in, shut someone down and fly out - and skilled pilots could make use of terrain to shake an ECM more effectively.
I also believe the F could do with a rework. The invulnerability effect which still allows the capping of beacons is not good as it means a full ecm team could fly into a beacon, pop F and cap it. Imagine doing this a few times in realistic mode, there is no counter to this whatsoever.
I’ve always wondered why the F on an ECM doesn’t function like the white noise jammer, that would have made a lot more sense than the cov ops having that module?
I could agree with a duration reduction and a CD reduction. And the only non-line of sight module is the ion emitter.
ANd I agree with the F ability while capping beacons, But the command ship should drop the bomb when he presses F.
RIght now he can get invincibility for a few seconds while planting.
(Last time I checked atleast)
and while they are at it, make the CO F-abilty(plasma web) also LOS based. Might as well make all modules LOF based while we are at it right?
There are a number of ways to achieve this that don’t nerf the class but rather re-balance it a little.
Nerf? they’re broken… you can’t fix them in the current state…
I don’t mean a nerf… a nerf is a reduction in performance… i mean a complete overhaul…
to make them a tactical unit as opposed to an easy button unit…
just think about it: we need some missile protection… oh wow that’s ECM’s job… well why isn’t ECM doing their job then?
also, we need to take out frigates… that’s inty’s job… why isn’t inty doing their job? because… they have unguided rockets instead of torps…
I also believe the F could do with a rework. The invulnerability effect which still allows the capping of beacons is not good as it means a full ecm team could fly into a beacon, pop F and cap it. Imagine doing this a few times in realistic mode, there is no counter to this whatsoever.
F is only 1 broken skill. This whole idea just sucks. ECM/inty are broken… can’t even do their job as per their description 
Nerf? they’re broken… you can’t fix them in the current state…
Note that this is your opinion and that many of us thoroughly disagree with it.
You dislike the current design of the class and want it completely overhauled. Many of us have no interest in this, myself included.
You can’t simply make a blanket statement saying that something is broken just because you dislike it.
Note that this is your opinion and that many of us thoroughly disagree with it.
You dislike the current design of the class and want it completely overhauled. Many of us have no interest in this, myself included.
You can’t simply make a blanket statement saying that something is broken just because you dislike it.
nope. it’s not an opinion… by definition an ECM/inty has a different role to play than the one currently assigned to it.
furthermore, you have gaps in certain fields that this could fill: A. a frigate torpedo bomber (aka interceptor), and a EW plane for supporting friendly units and jamming enemy radars/missile tracking.
furthermore, it IS BROKEN. League of Legends is widely considered broken for the same reasons. because of CC+stunlocks. no serious PvP’er plays LoL… seriously… plus LoL isn’t even a FPS game… it is a battle arena…
find me a competitive PvP FPS game where stunlocks are acceptable…
in other words… it’s not just me who thinks it is unacceptable… it’s almost the entire damn planet… except maybe russia…
in fact i should make a new poll with 4 options - yes, no, no and i fly only broken interceptors, yes and i fly everything but broken interceptors.
Note that this is your opinion and that many of us thoroughly disagree with it.
You dislike the current design of the class and want it completely overhauled. Many of us have no interest in this, myself included.
You can’t simply make a blanket statement saying that something is broken just because you dislike it.
No, ECM really is broken because no other ship can shut you down for a full 15 seconds straight. And, to be fair, the Stasis Web and Ion Emitter aren’t exactly Electronic Counter Measures…
beta: EVE online.
tracking disruptors
sensor dampeners
neuts/nos
jammers
webs
scrams
and im sure im forgetting about 20 things here…
You can practicly easily sort-of-“stunlock” someone there, and all is fine, because there is always a way to diminish the effects of the module placed on you. Just like in this game. Don’t want to get ECM’d for that long? use the implant + modifier and laugh as he does only <50% of his effects.
beta: EVE online.
tracking disruptors
sensor dampeners
neuts/nos
jammers
webs
scrams
first of all, i already mentioned eve in one of my other posts, or even in this thread. second of all, eve is not a fps… its like… a point+click hack and slash dungeon grinder… with some pvp…
lastly:
neuts/nos are energy denial, they are not a disable. they also have counters available on any ship.
sens damp/tracking disruptors/jammers are not disables… they increase your lockon time, or break lock, or prevent you from locking really small targets if you’re flying a battleship for example… and ALL of them can be countered…
webs are slowing effects, not disables… and also have some counters…
the only disable is a scram… and it only disables your warp drive… and it also can be countered using stabs, just not really practical on a combat vessel…
important to note that there is not a single or combination of modules in eve that will disable all of your systems including engines, weapons, etc…
you can apply a pretty heavy penalty to someone with enough tacklers on them… but you can’t disable them completely.
I feel ECM gets a lot of hate because the CO nerf made them obsolete and the Recon ships mess you up in a MUCH more subtle (but almost as deadly with a capable pilot) way than ECMs do. I recon ship is invaluable if you want to snipe a cap in combat recon.
first of all, i already mentioned eve in one of my other posts, or even in this thread. second of all, eve is not a fps… its like… a point+click hack and slash dungeon grinder… with some pvp…
lastly:
neuts/nos are energy denial, they are not a disable. they also have counters available on any ship.
sens damp/tracking disruptors/jammers are not disables… they increase your lockon time, or break lock, or prevent you from locking really small targets if you’re flying a battleship for example… and ALL of them can be countered…
webs are slowing effects, not disables… and also have some counters…
the only disable is a scram… and it only disables your warp drive… and it also can be countered using stabs, just not really practical on a combat vessel…
important to note that there is not a single or combination of modules in eve that will disable all of your systems including engines, weapons, etc…
you can apply a pretty heavy penalty to someone with enough tacklers on them… but you can’t disable them completely.
Let me get a few things straight about EVE:
neuts/nos are energy denial, they are not a disable. they also have counters available on any ship.
-They disable any module usage like in this game.
sens damp/tracking disruptors/jammers are not disables… they increase your lockon time, or break lock, or prevent you from locking really small targets if you’re flying a battleship for example… and ALL of them can be countered…
-Close enough to disables I’d say…
But, jammers is like the white noise jam, prevent you from locking as long as the effect lasts, but in EVE it disables any abilty you have to fight beyond running away or tanking.
webs are slowing effects, not disables… and also have some counters…
you can get slown down to 1m/s and slower even probaly…
the only disable is a scram… and it only disables your warp drive… and it also can be countered using stabs, just not really practical on a combat vessel…
And the, at most, 4 seconds disable is not that much…Do I hate getting caught by it? Sure as hell, and it could do with a second less I guess, but it is not broken.
nos/damp/webs as disables… erm no…
sorry i’ll rephrase that…
the are negative effects or modifiers at best. they can all be countered, and none of them will drop you to near zero unless it’s a 5v1… in which case you have no hope to begin with…
furthermore, they can all be countered, ie: enemy nos plans can be ruined with cap boosters. they are more support roles than anything… webs can be countered with jammers, or damps if youre a smaller ship. or just killing the target :\ damps, just wait longer… or tracking computer or whatever its called.
and you can’t compare a BS vs frig for example, since no such comparison exists in this game. units should be of about equal footing since it’s a PvP game, not a MMO where you actually have to ‘craft/build’ ships…
furthermore, it IS BROKEN. League of Legends is widely considered broken for the same reasons. because of CC+stunlocks. no serious PvP’er plays LoL… seriously… plus LoL isn’t even a FPS game… it is a battle arena…
find me a competitive PvP FPS game where stunlocks are acceptable…
in other words… it’s not just me who thinks it is unacceptable… it’s almost the entire damn planet… except maybe russia…
LoL is also one of the most successful games of all times and widely considered an enjoyable and competitive environment. It has spawned one of the largest and most succesful e-sports so it’s a rather poor example to use to fight your case against these game mechanics.
This is not an FPS game, you cannot compare it to shooters or other games which hardly contain any tactical elements. This game stands in it’s own right and that’s how you have to approach it.
And I don’t want to sound overly harsh here but you should probably not pretend to be the voice of the entire planet. Most of us actually disagree with a lot of the things you are saying.
If we could skip all the comparisons to other games, real life, and other irrelevant arguments and just stick to Star Conflict and how ECM operates within the SCon Meta at the moment - we’d have a more productive discussion on our hands.
And as far as ECM is concerned, there are plenty of viable alternatives to ECM, there are a number of good ways to kill ECM, so I don’t see the problem here. As previously states, a class like ECM fulfils a viable role in helping to break frig-balls and disrupt enemy teams. What you should be concerned with in battle are the friends the ECM brings along, not the ECM itself.
I can think of about 20 modules for this role that wouldn’t be considered game-breaking. As it stands, ECM is very much broken compared to other ship roles. Hell, even CovOps are fine when compared to ECM.