Do you think the current nerfs to the Engineer Frigate broke their Balance?

In a way I agree, but I see that player skill is still a factor. 

 

It is true, I put on about 76 Thermal resist on my Kite + the aid of a engineer = Survive the whole duration of a pulsar. 

 

Though Interceptors (Whom im a veteran from the beginning) have been shown no love anymore from anyone. There weak by themselves but they make up for it in there speed. I’m starting to specialize in killing other interceptors so my Squad can work on other ships. 

 

Engineers don’t stack, and I’m starting to lose the main issue that we are facing? Engineers are the only class, in T3 especially, where if you don’t have one on your team, you WILL lose. 

@ Jasan

 

erm… I’ll do my best not to sound like an asshat

 

A = 10

B = 10

 

no external modifiers (like pilot skill)

 

1A - 1B = 0

1 CovOps A - 1 CovOps B = 0

 

:. you need only 1 interceptor to cover 1 interceptor; skill not withstanding

 

 

Q - But Interceptor beats Frigate 1v1 9 times out of 10

A - That is their job

 

T2 = that is the case

T3 = that is normally the case*

 

* ok not 1 v 1 per se. you need healers to carry the interceptor but u get my meaning.

 

 

So… about Healing

% heals will not fix T2 interceptor dominance over clumsy engineers, that is intended.

It ‘might’ fix immortal T3 interceptors, frigballs not so much.

 

 

Thing is, gaijin has this thing called a stat sheet that they check for balancing. My guess is numbers they have say T2 is balanced. Prolly over a weekly meeting they decided that human factor is causing the imba. Which explains many of the changes they’ve made the last couple of patches that dealt with human input… Healing range to ‘force’ a particular playstyle they want. Limited visibility to reduce human skill on frigates… I dont know. Seems like the only reason that explains why they’re reluctant to change certain numbers around.

 

 

You’d need a rock solid case study to show that Inty > Engineer in T2 for example to get them to budge.

 

Coz if I were Gaijin, I’d tell myself  “T2 is how I want T3 to play like (minus the random gameplans)

The problem with your theory, Kine, is… well, let me give you a few examples:

 

Let us assume that we have two players of equal skill in a 1vs1 Deathmatch. How is any given combination going to go down?

 

Give one player an Interceptor and the other a Fighter or Frigate, and the Interceptor will almost certainly win. Why? Because (with the possible exception of ECM), that speed advantage translates into borderline invincibility.

 

Two prime examples: Recon can fly in, engage, and then when the shields get low cloak and warp away. With proper application of de-buffs, mines / other ordnance, even a skilled pilot is going to wind up being pecked to death. The superior speed and agility of the Recon - especially versus a Frigate - helps ensure victory. Pretty much the only class that could stand in this scenario is the Tackler, but I wouldn’t bet on any other class to come out on top… except of course, another Interceptor.

 

How about Covert Ops? They can fly in, inflict massive damage with Orion and/or Plasma web, drop a minefield and then either go sensor-dark and flee, or suicide and take their victim down with them. In higher tiers, they can drop a nuke and flee instead. For a lone Frigate there is no defense against this tactic. For a Fighter, they can at best hope to dodge the plasma arc and maybe force a premature suicide, but in all probability the Covert Ops will disengage and flee.

 

This, I feel, is the real issue surrounding the Interceptor - most other classes cannot disengage from a fight. I know from my own experience that the hit-and-fade tactics arguably work better in T3 than in T2; it’s rare when I don’t absorb and heal 400% hull damage or more in a single match flying an Elf.

 

But more than that, there are other elements to consider. You see, it isn’t actually about 1 vs 1 dogfighting - it’s about the ability to deny objectives. If I saw a lone fighter or frigate carrying an EMP bomb, or trying to reach a team Captain, I am confident I alone could kill him… but a lone Interceptor? Even if we assume said pilot is just as skilled as I am, I would not be confident in my ability to stop him unless I was flying a Tackler, and even then my confidence would rely on being in range to activate my modules.

 

This is the true power of the interceptor - the disproportionate commitment required to actually stop them dead. Once an Inty pilot is set on achieving something, it is extremely difficult to stop them short of ganging up on them. However, as I have mentioned, this is a flawed solution because it allows for openings elsewhere. Most of my kills (or “I did most of the work” Kill Assists) as an Interceptor pilot don’t come from me engaging and duelling with lone ships - they come from me finding someone who is distracted and brutally exploiting their distraction. When I pounce on a LR Frigate, his only hope of survival is for at least one ally, and ideally two, to come to his aid. I have now tied up 2-3 enemies and one will be dead and respawning in a few seconds. This leaves 9-10 people on their team to get on with their objective, versus 11 people on my team.

 

So what if I’m not the only Interceptor? What if there’s another one out there who is, for the sake of argument, kiting some unfortunate Command Fighter at an objective and denying it? That Command Fighter is dead unless one of his allies comes to his aid - two more enemies tied up for the cost of one of ours. Our opponents are now effectively down by a third, whilst the Interceptors can, when finished, disengage and retreat for healing - within ten seconds they’ll be fully healed and back to sow terror and dischord.

 

This is what has to be brought to an end. There has to be at least two classes, ideally three, that can single-handedly shut down an Interceptor - or perhaps multiple Interceptors - and bring them to heel for the rest of the team to get the job done.

 

I say all of this as someone who actualy enjoys being an Interceptor pilot. I admit, without any shame, to enjoy pouncing on and brutalising poor, innocent LRs or any other unfortunate who strays too far from the safety of their squadmates. I want a hard counter for one simple reason - it gives me a challenge.

Easy solution = One Shot Kills

 

hard sell to the interceptor crowd

But that’s not a solution.

 

The balance lies in 1 vs 1 mechanics - one Interceptor should beat one Frigate, but lose to one Fighter. The Fighter in turn should lose to one Frigate; circular balance.

 

The tricky bit arguably comes with the question “do two Frigates lose to one Interceptor?” I’d be inclined to say that, ideally, the answer should be no. Two Frigates vs one Inty should end with at least one Frigate surviving, or perhaps both dying with the Interceptor near death. Obviously, player skill is a factor here.

 

But there should not be the current situation where a lone Interceptor can dictate play so strongly - their unmatched speed gives a massive advantage in objective based play, which combined with their artificially high survivability leads to the imbalance in the first place.

 

The more I think on it, the more I feel that the answer is not to nerf the Interceptor; the answer is to provide more viable ways to counter them. There needs to be counters to both 1 vs 1 Interceptor scenarios (in the same way that you wouldn’t fly solo as a Frigate because a single Inty / Fighter can get in your blind spot and murder you), but there must also be more valid counters to mass Interceptor.

 

Provide those elements, and I think we would see a return to Frigate play in Tier 2. Then the question of Frigate balance can be addressed within that Tier.

But that’s not a solution.

 

The balance lies in 1 vs 1 mechanics - one Interceptor should beat one Frigate, but lose to one Fighter. The Fighter in turn should lose to one Frigate; circular balance.

 

ah kk.

 

1 inty vs 1 frig kinda does end up as it should so i believe we’re at a decent place right now with them

 

1 inty vs 1 fighter - this largely falls on who got the drop on who first. if it was a case of head to head clash - ship fits on the fighter only would probably decide the outcome (sans pilot skill factor) be it tackler, gunship or command. I believe this is worth looking into coz right now the tackler which supposedly is the anti-inty does not win a head to head as often as it should. they have a massive adv tackling from the sidelines but face to face 1 on 1 … not so great. So you are probably right on this one

 

1 fighter vs 1 frigate - same deal with the above except isolating skill factor here cannot constitute as the best approach. frigates are beast and it should take more than ship fits to consider things are balanced. In T2 if someone said it’s all good, I would take his word on it from personal observation. As for T3, well you already know the answer to this one :stuck_out_tongue:

@ Lucky - I’ll try and video a real frigball for you lol. Haven’t seen one done properly yet last couple of days…

 

Game Mode: Combat Reconnaissance

 

Top interceptor ESB pilot as captain flies with full frigate support. ESB v NASA - Marauders were there for the show. (64 MB)

 

Disclaimer: Due to inertia issues, viewers may suffer nausea when watching videoman capture on his interceptor. It is advised gamers take atleast a 15 minute break between 45 minute periods infront of the computer. Cake not included.

 

http://youtu.be/Z15F-ZKKOR0

And no one slapped a stasis and energy drain on him when he was 1-2km away from entire friendly frigate ball so he couldn’t run away. :facepalm:

 

 

That and you getting killed by a disintegrator because you hovered around slowly on the int was kinda silly. But that stuff happens to the best of us.

hey - I was filming.

 

It was frig galore video, not kine pwns ESB

All I can say to that?

 

Just laser spam. Don’t deny it: lasers were everywhere.

hey - I was filming.

 

It was frig galore video, not kine pwns ESB

It should have been “kine pwns ESB”!

 

Imagine the fame! The love!

 

 

(Especially the love in game from ESB guys when they end on other side for a couple of days after publishing the video).

All I can say to that?

 

Just laser spam. Don’t deny it: lasers were everywhere.

Is there a point hidden in there somewhere or do you just have a problem with people using the obvious weapon of choice for frigates?

Is there a point hidden in there somewhere or do you just have a problem with people using the obvious weapon of choice for frigates?

 

No, just saying lasers were everywhere. O_o

No, just saying lasers were everywhere. O_o

Yes, because many frigateers use them due to them being hitscan weapons, rendering maneuvering at medium distance significantly less useful at negating damage.

Yes, because many frigateers use them due to them being hitscan weapons, rendering maneuvering at medium distance significantly less useful at negating damage.

It depends. Hail plasmas and rapid fire rails fit the bill quite well, and they can be a nighmare to deal with if you have acceleration coils. I wonder if the speed bonus stacks…

Anyway, I prefer hail plasma as the EM damage can be quickly switched to kinetic, basically making it a shield and hull buster. However, it pays for that with a shorter range than its counterparts (something like 5000m, rapids have about 6.5km and lrls have 8km range. Rough guesses), but I prefer to do more damage at the cost of range.

And I’m either fairly decent at dodging lasers, or the people who aim at me aren’t that good at aiming…

“Good at dodging hitscan weapons…”

 

Sometimes, my head just starts to hurt when reading things like those…

“Good at dodging hitscan weapons…”

 

Sometimes, my head just starts to hurt when reading things like those…

 

Sometimes, my head hurts when people can’t seem to realise it is possible to dodge lasers every projectile providing you take evasive manoeuvres…

 

I’ll see if I can record it. If not, my secret is:

 

Hold W and either Q or E and then hold your mouse at the edge of the screen. Helps if you’re an interceptor.

Sometimes, my head hurts when people can’t seem to realise it is possible to dodge lasers every projectile providing you take evasive manoeuvres…

 

I’ll see if I can record it. If not, my secret is:

 

Hold W and either Q or E and then hold your mouse at the edge of the screen. Helps if you’re an interceptor.

A sub 1100 player is teaching a over 1500 player basics of gameplay. You saw it here first folks :salute:

 

Hint: there’s a reason why >1400 frigates flying with heavy lasers generally have high kill counts. They kill people who mistakenly think that hitscan weapons are about dodging rather than about hitting.

A sub 1100 player is teaching a over 1500 player basics of gameplay. You saw it here first folks :salute:

 

Hint: there’s a reason why >1400 frigates flying with heavy lasers generally have high kill counts. They kill people who mistakenly think that hitscan weapons are about dodging rather than about hitting.

 

hqdefault.jpg

 

Considering you seem to have stooped to repeatedly using insults to undermine my views, I think I’ll just stick you on my ignore list as you are making no positive contribution whatsoever.

 

Actually, this reminds me of another forum where this happened… I just ended up blocking the guy… History repeats itself, doesn’t it?

 

Ah well, I guess there’ll always be people like this… Elitists who don’t give half of one about the opinions of less experienced players, instead choosing to laugh at and mock them. You find them on every game. Not too phased, TBH: dealt with more than a dozen in my time and no-one will have no more success at undermining both my confidence or my grit than any of them.

 

You might just want to try the technique out, though. It’s actually fairly good. Survived a solid 3 minutes of continuous fire from about 3 lasers, 2 plasma cannons and a sniper railgun… I came off with it after my team had helped me out with my shields recovering and my hull scratched for about 100 points. Not too bad, I guess.

Are there still any balancing issues after the latest patches?