I’m good
T2 engineer pilots are flying again so that’s good
but T3 immortals are still around tho
Are there still any balancing issues after the latest patches?
T3 frigate balls are the worst offenders. At the moment, skill at T3 is defined as “know how to pick an engineer/guard, slot proper modules and weapons, launch, activate active modules and stay in the ball”.
Even shooting feels pretty optional at times for a frig ball. Just minefield up your beacon(s) and sit there tanking the world. Worst offenders are cerberus-2 (which needs a HARD nerfbat to survivability) and guard frigates’ ability to set a “field of death” where enemy weapons don’t work all that well and movement in it is slow enough to eat a lot of accurate fire from even the worst players in the game. Saddest part is when you’re playing domination, and an utterly clueless bunch of frigates that literally can’t hit you even in slow fields will still push you off the beacons because of pulsars and minefields and the simple fact that you cannot kill more then a couple of them at a time while burning all module cooldowns and missiles as long as they are in the ball.
I would also argue that tacklers need a buff (and specifically we need a non-premium tackler at T3) as do recon ints. ECM was overbuffed last patch and should have less survivability then it currently has. Gunships feel a bit too tanky for the role. I’m specifically talking empire premium gunship hull tanking, I just spent about a minute flying after a gunship in ECM int shooting at him with proper damage modded purple rapid fire plasma that had imperial +10% damage buff and capacitor mod +10% damage buff hitting every shot as he was flying in a straight line and engineer overhealed the damage without remote heals, otherwise they are good. This was outside any guard damage reduction field.
But those are small fry in comparison with immortal frig balls in T3.
As for T4, I think I’ll quote the russian guys commentating last match in the tourney:
“Ah maestro, fail of the year. Everyone knows you can’t kill apothecary (engineer) in an interceptor”.
ECM was overbuffed last patch and should have less survivability then it currently has.
Please don’t.
This is the closest thing we have to a single ship solution to healers. Yes I get away with risky moves and can single-handedly ‘convince’ engineers to buzz off but they have no DPS bonus whatsoever. Taking away HP with 0 dmg bonus = wtf ?
If they are annoying in whatever game-mode, i suggest buffing up tacklers. ECM isn’t the problem here.
Please don’t.
This is the closest thing we have to a single ship solution to healers. Yes I get away with risky moves and can single-handedly ‘convince’ engineers to buzz off but they have no DPS bonus whatsoever. Taking away HP with 0 dmg bonus = wtf ?
If they are annoying in whatever game-mode, i suggest buffing up tacklers. ECM isn’t the problem here.
ECM does jack squat to healers without a squad of strikers to do damage. I routinely score high in elf-2 but I sure as hell don’t go engineer hunting. And frankly, most of the time another striker would do more then ECM when hitting an engineer, even if its solo.
Currently ECM is the king of anti-interceptor combat, great at anti-fighter combat and defensive screening of friendly forces, and pretty terrible at anti-frigate combat due to shutdown generally doing nothing meaningful to frigate balls, as they usually have multiple copies of auras.
T3 frigate balls are the worst offenders. At the moment, skill at T3 is defined as “know how to pick an engineer/guard, slot proper modules and weapons, launch, activate active modules and stay in the ball”.
Even shooting feels pretty optional at times for a frig ball. Just minefield up your beacon(s) and sit there tanking the world. Worst offenders are cerberus-2 (which needs a HARD nerfbat to survivability) and guard frigates’ ability to set a “field of death” where enemy weapons don’t work all that well and movement in it is slow enough to eat a lot of accurate fire from even the worst players in the game. Saddest part is when you’re playing domination, and an utterly clueless bunch of frigates that literally can’t hit you even in slow fields will still push you off the beacons because of pulsars and minefields and the simple fact that you cannot kill more then a couple of them at a time while burning all module cooldowns and missiles as long as they are in the ball.
I would also argue that tacklers need a buff (and specifically we need a non-premium tackler at T3) as do recon ints. ECM was overbuffed last patch and should have less survivability then it currently has. Gunships feel a bit too tanky for the role. I’m specifically talking empire premium gunship hull tanking, I just spent about a minute flying after a gunship in ECM int shooting at him with proper damage modded purple rapid fire plasma that had imperial +10% damage buff and capacitor mod +10% damage buff hitting every shot as he was flying in a straight line and engineer overhealed the damage without remote heals, otherwise they are good. This was outside any guard damage reduction field.
But those are small fry in comparison with immortal frig balls in T3.
As for T4, I think I’ll quote the russian guys commentating last match in the tourney:
“Ah maestro, fail of the year. Everyone knows you can’t kill apothecary (engineer) in an interceptor”.
I think really that all the empire engineers need a nerf to their survivability. 60k for the Hydra 2 is just plain stupid.
For the T3 healing ability…
It’s the remote heals, isn’t it?
I don’t know whether I should just stick my previous counters/balancers here or just link them… Starting to get a tad annoying now…
I think really that all the empire engineers need a nerf to their survivability. 60k for the Hydra 2 is just plain stupid.
For the T3 healing ability…
It’s the remote heals, isn’t it?
I don’t know whether I should just stick my previous counters/balancers here or just link them… Starting to get a tad annoying now…
As it stands now, it’s mathematically impossible to kill cerberus 2 with proper fit with an interceptor solo. You will simply not do enough damage, as mass heals will outheal gun damage and remote heals will outheal plasma arc/orion/missiles.
As it stands now, it’s mathematically impossible to kill cerberus 2 with proper fit with an interceptor solo. You will simply not do enough damage, as mass heals will outheal gun damage and remote heals will outheal plasma arc/orion/missiles.
Mass heals heal ~170 at experimental. I think. I can out DPS that in an ECM…
Mass heals heal ~170 at experimental. I think. I can out DPS that in an ECM…
211 mass heal and 176 nanodrones for a total of 387 every second at mk3.
When you add resists into the picture, you get the reality, where you cannot outdps heals at any meaningful rate with two guns.
211 mass heal and 176 nanodrones for a total of 387 every second at mk3.
When you add resists into the picture, you get the reality, where you cannot outdps heals at any meaningful rate with two guns.
Right. Thx for the correction.
Back to topic: Right now the most unbalanced frigate is the Cerberus 2. Besides being an engineer it amounts to the same number of hitpoints than an equivalent guard! If you count in the “autoheal” it’s a better tank than the default ship class! That shouldn’t be the case. Right now the engis problem ain’t the healing rate nor range, it’s simply the fact that a single engineer is hard as hell to take down. My opinion is that engineers and especially the Cerberus 2 model should have thei hull ans shield nerfed down. Restitute the guard it’s original role and give the engi the properties of a real healer: medium to low survivability (maybe just a little bit above the LR frigates).
Oh and by the way, I never got why the pulsar needs a direct line of sight but buffs don’t. It would be something to reflect about the possibility of making buffs line of sight related…
Right now the engis problem ain’t the healing rate nor range, it’s simply the fact that a single engineer is hard as hell to take down. My opinion is that engineers and especially the Cerberus 2 model should have thei hull ans shield nerfed down.
I can guarantee you lowering hull and shield will have minimal impact. They are dominating only when working together.
If you’ve missed it, a proper engineer as part of a heal squad is out-healing your DPS. Having less or more hull + shields is a minor nuisance.
Post up a video of you flying alone in a Cerberus 2 taking beacons in beacon hunt and not die because you have a massive tank. I haven’t been able to because that isn’t how it works.
Oh and by the way, I never got why the pulsar needs a direct line of sight but buffs don’t. It would be something to reflect about the possibility of making buffs line of sight related…
This I’m in favor of.
not because I think that’s how heals should work but because how people take advantage of it using terrain and prolong standoffs for far longer beyond the fun factor.
If you’ve missed it, a proper engineer as part of a heal squad is out-healing your DPS. Having less or more hull + shields is a minor nuisance.
Post up a video of you flying alone in a Cerberus 2 taking beacons in beacon hunt and not die because you have a massive tank. I haven’t been able to because that isn’t how it works.
Well, I never meant that they’re a tank per se, but on one on one, using those missiles that cut off any module usage (don’t remember their name, sorry), I still have to cut through it’s hull and shield as if it were a regular guard and I don’t know if you’ve checked a Cerberus 2 total hitpoints when synergy 10, but it comes close to 50k divided between hull and shield. This is what bugs me! I don’t know if I’m explaining my frustration right. Basically I’m taking as reference the usual MMORPG classes and I’ve never seen a healer having alot of life. For me, in essence a healer should have medium to low HP.
One solution to the outhealing problem would be to make healing modules actives, with cooldowns, like commander buffs, or in a more drastic approach to limit the total healing you can do during battle. I’m thinking: if we all have to take limited missiles and such to battle, why do frigates have an infinite amount to repair ships? It could be ammo related. Just a thought here, but there might be drawbacks I’m not seeing.
On an other matter, but still related, I’ve noticed that an engineer can deploy a portable portal, which I’ve seen been used as an escape when low-life. I strongly dissaprove of this.
First, from a fun and fairness point of view, it’s just mean when an engi can run away and get back half of his shields before you can catch him, and that if your using an interceptor. Anything else and you’ll take ages to catch it. I get that the recon can escape danger with microwarp and it’s ok, because it has a low total of hitpoints and can’t regenerate them. But on an engineer I just seems OP, especially when you portal your way back to the center of your fleet… A guard has firepower and health but no mobility, a sniper has power, more mobility but really low hitpoints for a frigate. When looking at the engineer it seems like it has it all, health, power (only 4 turrets but two automated drones) and mobility. It just doesn’t seem right. Something has to be cut out…
Second, from a logic point of view, it seems to me that logistically a gate/portal, capable of accelerating ships of o certain size, would have to be bigger than said ships, but how can such a big gate fit inside an engineer? You might say it’s a colapsable gate and such but it’s stretching it a bit far. But I’m just running out of ideas why an engi should be less mobile. Nonetheless removing the ability of frigates to enter engi-portals would make it a pure support module and to compensate I would reward the engineer by giving him points for every ally that passes throug the gate.
Personally I think the engineer should be modified to correspond to its role: supporting others. Debate! XD
Finally I would like to add, that it would be interesting to see the results of prohibiting inter-engineer healing and by that, I mean making it impossible for one engi to heal another (you can always imagine that the healing technology would interfer with one another or whatever). This would considerably make engi duos, trios and such less powerfull. Because the DPS outhealing becomes only unmanageable when more than one engi are present.
PS: Sorry for the long post, thanks if you read it and hope you liked to read it.
I like your post. Keep them long.
replying for sake of bouncing ideas and not in any way argumentative.
Well, I never meant that they’re a tank per se, but on one on one, using those missiles that cut off any module usage (don’t remember their name, sorry), I still have to cut through it’s hull and shield as if it were a regular guard … Basically I’m taking as reference the usual MMORPG classes and I’ve never seen a healer having alot of life. For me, in essence a healer should have medium to low HP.
understood. now,
in those MMORPGs were your healers bumbling along slower than a snail? or were they able to actively avoid and distance themselves from confrontation?
One solution to the outhealing problem would be to make healing modules actives, with cooldowns, like commander buffs, or in a more drastic approach to limit the total healing you can do during battle.
the ones that are adding to the headache are in-fact active healing modules with cooldowns. the drastic approach solution of limiting healing in battle was discussed at length and generally have support in favor of percentage based heals. parts of those discussion are in this thread even.
I’m thinking: if we all have to take limited missiles and such to battle, why do frigates have an infinite amount to repair ships? It could be ammo related. Just a thought here, but there might be drawbacks I’m not seeing.
I like this. Healing ammo. sounds fun and easy to implement. Start a suggestion thread?
On an other matter, but still related, I’ve noticed that an engineer can deploy a portable portal <Warp Gate> , which I’ve seen been used as an escape when low-life. I strongly dissaprove of this… A guard has firepower and health but no mobility, a sniper has power, more mobility but really low hitpoints for a frigate. When looking at the engineer it seems like it has it all, health, power (only 4 turrets but two automated drones) and mobility. It just doesn’t seem right. Something has to be cut out…
Fair point. I could offer counter arguments but the engineer is already precariously in a gray area so I’m not gonna. Regardless, I can see how it can be seen as a bad-bad in
, but it really is a non-issue at t3 on account of how the games are played out and the fact that experienced pilots have a knack for blowing said gates out even before the engineer can make his exit. Possible compromise is to make the warp gate available as a t3 and above mod; but I would feel bad for t2 guards who have to start trudging along from beacon to beacon unaided.
… it would be interesting to see the results of prohibiting inter-engineer healing and by that, I mean making it impossible for one engi to heal another … Because the DPS outhealing becomes only unmanageable when more than one engi are present.
Again. Interesting.
Personally I think the engineer should be modified to correspond to its role: supporting others.
They are. They were attacking engineers for a stint in tier2 before the nerfs and subsequent interceptor buffs pulled them back into line. I played guardgineer extensively in tier2 when I was first ordered asked to learn the role by my officer. I guarantee you it is no longer possible.
As for T3, they never were attacking ships. Atleast not since I first joined that tier. I even made a point to watch and learn from one of the best non-Russian engineer pilot in that tier and even he cannot pull it off consistently. T3 engineers are very much a support ship as it always has been.
I’m new here, but when i first joined engineer had 6 weapon turrets. After checking around the forums discussions i saw the various problem about healing being overpowered, mostly in T3 and T4. But if the problem was the healing, why did they remove 2 of the turrets, i didn’t see anyone complaining about frigates doing a massacre.
I’m new here, but when i first joined engineer had 6 weapon turrets. After checking around the forums discussions i saw the various problem about healing being overpowered, mostly in T3 and T4. But if the problem was the healing, why did they remove 2 of the turrets, i didn’t see anyone complaining about frigates doing a massacre.
i think its because guard and engineer are not supposed to be damage dealer in the first place. a cerberus 2 or centaur 2 with 6 turrents would be self-sustaining massive dps ship. why should i bother with other classes if i can have all in one?
my personal opinion, is nerf guard and engi dps even more. your are support! keep your mates alive and do not harass the enemy (except the guard maybe as offensive area control).
edit says i forgot the long range frigate. it still has its 6 turrets, because it is the damage dealer within the frigate class.
I’m new here, but when i first joined engineer had 6 weapon turrets. After checking around the forums discussions i saw the various problem about healing being overpowered, mostly in T3 and T4. But if the problem was the healing, why did they remove 2 of the turrets, i didn’t see anyone complaining about frigates doing a massacre.
Engies WERE able to massacre enemies back when they had 6 turrets, and when combat drones were still an active module that spawned both drones upon activation.
Engies WERE able to massacre enemies back when they had 6 turrets, and when combat drones were still an active module that spawned both drones upon activation.
Current combat drones are more powerful in terms of damage dealing than old ones due to new drone spawning mechanic.
Current combat drones are more powerful in terms of damage dealing than old ones due to new drone spawning mechanic.
Not too sure about the drones’ actual attack strength pre- and post-modification. I kinda miss the feeling of respawning my drones in an instant after they get blown up. (But the joy of blowing up an enemy engie’s drones and knowing that he won’t have them back for a long time is better 
)
Not too sure about the drones’ actual attack strength pre- and post-modification. I kinda miss the feeling of respawning my drones in an instant after they get blown up. (But the joy of blowing up an enemy engie’s drones and knowing that he won’t have them back for a long time is better
You have better uptime + drones have better range now.
They’re also damnably accurate now, it feels like it’s almost impossible to dodge their fire even in my kite. I have to tank through their damage when flying by engineers. And they hurt. Luckily extra range means I can let someone more durable on my team eat their fire for me more easily.
screw that, wrong topic, reading ftw