Discussion of old features!

Game Discussion Miscellaneous
#1

I have mixed feelings about these items of the past that were in the older versions of the game… but a few of them I wish would return to  the new Star Conflict. Now don’t start swearing at me for putting in some ridiculous ideas because some of these actually made the game interesting in my opinion.

 

Image 1

*1: I actually preferred these guns to the current guns in star conflict, and as it seems that certain classes get double of weapon types (Frigates have two thermal, Tacklers have two thermals, Fighters have two kinetic, ECM have two kinetic and Engineers have two EM) I thought, why shouldn’t the plasma cannon be brought back to the fighters as it was before the weapon system was redone?

 

*2 (I don’t have a screenshot of this one): I honetsly think that two weapon modifiers was a good feature and was rather dissapointed that it was canned aswell as the abililty to hold two secondary weapons. If these were brought back to the game however, I would  allow frigates and fighters to hold multiple secondary weapons, as the thought of interceptors that are holding 24 missiles is rather ridiculous.

 

post-244296-0-59616300-1394529082.jpg

 

Image 2

*1&*2: These two things were very odd to think about when you see how the weapons are now, so honestly… I wouldn’t personally want to have the poor frigates with railguns or standard missiles again.

 

*3: This however I want back very desperately as an official mode. It was dropped after the launcher in-game was rehashed and I have no clue why it was, as personally I want to be able to try out my ships setups before going into an actual battle and think that the mode should be reintroduced

 

post-244296-0-75095300-1394529055.jpg

 

 

Post what you think about these features!

#2

re 2: I preferred the dual damage type, dual but limited ammunition setup myself, but I think we’ve moved too far away from that to ever see it again. Same as other things, it was removed to simplify the game so you don’t have to think before shooting. We’ve got more specialized guns instead now.

Here’s how it looked like since you didn’t have a screenshot:

yZc7m4f.jpg

re 3: custom battle with bots is good enough really

#3

Dual damage type makes all the weapons too similar which is why i think it was removed. Now people can fit theirs ships to be stronger vs certain weapons. Before it didn’t really matter. Practice mode would be nice tho

#4

Replace the ammunition of weapon to adapt to the type of target would be a nice change.

#5

Ah, back then the game was all about  skill. It really was. Most people didnt play interceptors. Hard to believe that right? But it was true!

 

Why was that so? 

 

Interceptors were the hardest class to master. Veterans like me were getting around 700 M/s with unlimited afterburners in T3! T4 seen somewhere even higher then that, where one case, someone reported to see a build with 900M/S!

 

It was hard to manuver at those speeds and only the crazy morons (Me) would go that fast and get every kill in the match. 

 

Thus they nerfed us, HARD.

 

The missiles were the best part. Back then what you brought with you is what you got, and there was NO refill. You ran out of missiles? Tough luck. Or switch to another ship. 

 

It promoted good tactical play. 

 

The weapon modifiers were interesting. EM, Kinetic, or Thermal at the press of a button. Have supernova or normal damage. The possiblitys were endless. 

 

This made everyone really aware of there surroundings, guards were hard to play, skill of flying or being a good pilot mattered, etc. 

 

The point is, they made the game user friendly, and literally Nerf skill by taking options and features out. 

#6

Replace the ammunition of weapon to adapt to the type of target would be a nice change.

Which goes agains specializationing/uniqness mentality of the game. Weapon modifier brought to much utility you could come prepaired for everything, which is a bad thing imho. Couple examples:

Bubblegunner able to cary Supernova And acceleration ammo or acceleration+kinetic

Railguns can bring crit ammo and projectile speed

Ions with curved reflector and flatreflector

Positrons with acceleration and kinetic choice

I belive that eliminating ammo has been done to not simplify the game but rather make it consistant, you have strong sides of build and there are weak sides, multiple ammo use to almost compleatly negate downsides of your builds. Even though it feels that gameplay is simplier, ship building became somewhat “harder” because you can not be as versatile.

#7

Which goes agains specializationing/uniqness mentality of the game. Weapon modifier brought to much utility you could come prepaired for everything, which is a bad thing imho. Couple examples:

Bubblegunner able to cary Supernova And acceleration ammo or acceleration+kinetic

Railguns can bring crit ammo and projectile speed

Ions with curved reflector and flatreflector

Positrons with acceleration and kinetic choice

I belive that eliminating ammo has been done to not simplify the game but rather make it consistant, you have strong sides of build and there are weak sides, multiple ammo use to almost compleatly negate downsides of your builds. Even though it feels that gameplay is simplier, ship building became somewhat “harder” because you can not be as versatile.

 

I have to agree with you. Now ships are “specialized” and so you must rely on situations and team mates more then ever. 

 

The missile issue is still a bummer for me. I miss having 2 missile slots. With limited missiles to boot as well. Only the idiots (me) would use unguided, but back then, I would never miss. Now since i know my missiles would refill, I can care less if I miss from time to time. 

#8

The good old days without constant missile spam where you could still race around because not everybody was flying a tackler. It sure was nice. Speed was always hard capped at 700 m/s though.

#9

The good old days without constant missile spam where you could still race around because not everybody was flying a tackler. It sure was nice. Speed was always hard capped at 700 m/s though.

 

No it was not, They recently did that, but you could of gotten faster then that. Ask ESB. 

#10

The option to change damage type of the weapon is not needed back to this game: it makes game more skill based to not have such option. It would be “I KILL YOU” button: Bad players would not be able to use it well, and good players would get insane I kill button: “oh you have plasma resist? now my bubbles do kinetic, thxbye!”.

 

But, they could bring it back by being able to switch between the same gun buffs which are currently implemented: meaning that I could switch between “does my gun get extra damage, or is the ammo speed faster”. So in hangar I would select 2 primary weapon modifiers from the already existing ones, and could switch between those two when in game. Just as long as they don’t bring back those modifiers, that can also switch damage type.

 

 

Also, having two types of missiles in ships I would like to see implemented back in some form. More meta-strategy.

 

 

But these are not big issues. Game is playable even wihtout. But it would make it better.

#11

No it was not, They recently did that, but you could of gotten faster then that. Ask ESB.

Could have sworn the “All ships have a hard speed limit of 700 m/s” tip was there already when I first started but doesn’t matter.

#12

Could have sworn the “All ships have a hard speed limit of 700 m/s” tip was there already when I first started but doesn’t matter.

Hard cap was introduced somewhat year ago, i joined in march and i think hard cap already been there for some time. One of the reason to introduce hard cap was (according to devs) is that servers had problem properly calculating collisions and some other stuff. 

#13

One of the reason to introduce hard cap was (according to devs) is that servers had problem properly calculating collisions and some other stuff.

If you let players move faster than the latency of the connection (and that includes the server heartbeat/update frequency) you’ll inevitably end up with warping because the client constantly has to reset ship positions when it receives updates from the server. 700 m/s is already a stretch as anyone who’s ever tried piloting an interceptor on a server not in their home region will know.

#14

If you let players move faster than the latency of the connection you’ll inevitably end up with warping because the client constantly has to reset ship positions when it receives updates from the server. 700 m/s is already a stretch as anyone who’s ever tried piloting an interceptor on a server not in their home region will know.

Well, it is a common “belief” here that this game is exclusively made for ESB, and from ESBs videos it is obviously that they play from the server rooms with 10 ping, this shouldn’t be the problem  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:

#15

As much as I loved switching damage type back then, that mechanic was a bit OP for plasmas over time. It still doesn’t feel balanced now, and ceptors before that patch were hell of a lot stronger, simply because you could infini-pound others with em damage and switch to kinetic

 

TLDR; just adding my useless reiteration of the speed ping discussion, because I am also interested how others witness it.

Note: This is my interpretation of what I read here and observed myself. Correct me at free will.

 

While you for sure could handle the calculations with higher speeds, higher pings give you as player a delayed reaction time.

You can warp faster than 700m/s, because you cannot change the outcome of your travel much once you engaged, making you “precalculable”.

 

Imagine you fly to an asteroid and steer the ship between them. You want to make a hard curve in the last second in front of the roid. Once the ping is high enough, your course correction comes in late, so the server already lets you collide with the asteroid - or has to reach a compromise of some sort - or even result to a resync of your ship, which isn’t fun for others because it means you blink on their screen. I have only witnessed this twice actively, except the warp ins.

 

I know there are several tricks for compensating these effects but each of them only works until a certain breaking point or creates secondary effects.

 

At least for me at >600m/s with some 90ms ping you can feel a wobble on your ship, because the steering happens “layed back”, where I blame my ping, and also, because the game engine runs on a specific frequency recalculating the new positions, and every turn you miss has already happened. This means, every time your course correction comes in, you already have flown a little bit further than you anticipated - and it’s more further if you are faster - which results in your ship constantly “moving too far” in a specific direction at each mouse movement, even if the server tries to compensate as much as it can by interpolation or calculating in the future, or other forms of integrating your personal movement into the official gamestate.

(And each Ceptor pilot thinks: “Suddenly strafing seems like a good idea.”)

 

700m/s is probably the speed in the current engine, where this effect won’t affect you with good ping too much, most likely measured by experiment. But if you are above the ideal ping for the engine, you probably should use slower ships to have less “drag”, and create less tension to the numbers.

As I remember, the cap was a bit lower or higher for a short time, and I also heard rumors of the cap not being part of the early game engine.

 

For shots it’s a bit different, because of the travel time and the delay of weapons, which makes Positron still very accurate at high pings, making a Frigate still quite nice in a latency fight.

Still, I use piercing missiles and if we have to take them into murrican servers, it means, I have to press shoot a bit earlier than I intend it to shoot, probably in a more stable situation than usual, and whishing I had missiles.

 

Another issue arising at high pings seems to be how shots are fired, Rapid Fire Plasma loses a lot of shots on high pings, besides the aiming issue on a wobbly ship. Not sure about the details here tho, does not happen often.

 

As far as the engine goes, compared to what I witnessed in BF4, SC is quite cool with pings, but more servers and probably some more optimizations would not hurt (or IPv6 support in europe, because pings are better there). Even if the gameplay is different, seeing an FPS engine released in '13 with a network tickrate of 10Hz, where even an RTS usually has 16 just makes me shiver while I get shot around the corner by a guy which was looking at the sky on my screen with 20 ping. It’s just embarassing.

 

To the entry topic: the pictures were a bit confusing to me until others posted others.

I also miss having two missile slots or switching damage types in general, but I hope they increase micromanagement tricks in other areas, I have kind of got used to the current system. And hell, what a fun Stilettos were with Mines… :slight_smile:

#16

I think, there was a short period of time with hard cap at 600 speed

 

@g4borg

 

Ck0XQT75WfU.jpg

 

Cant find any screens of Pre 0.8 Era, befor Roles were introduced and All inties had Stasis, most popular imperial fighter had a target painter+hull aura on top of a 15 second overdrive that gave you 50 hull resistances to all dmg sources as well

#17

When I said dual ammuntion setups, I meant with the current ones, via being the damage, heating, range, etc.

 

re 3: custom battle with bots is good enough really

 

I woulds still prefer a more advanced practice mode.

#18

Supernova positrons for anti frig work? *shudders*

#19

Kinetic bubblebringer would be fatal, tho

#20

Dual damage type makes all the weapons too similar which is why i think it was removed. Now people can fit theirs ships to be stronger vs certain weapons. Before it didn’t really matter. Practice mode would be nice tho

Only EM was really OP.  Shields up, use EM damage, Shields down, use kinetic damage.  EM and kinetic should never have been paired.

 

I have to agree with you. Now ships are “specialized” and so you must rely on situations and team mates more then ever. 

 

The missile issue is still a bummer for me. I miss having 2 missile slots. With limited missiles to boot as well. Only the idiots (me) would use unguided, but back then, I would never miss. Now since i know my missiles would refill, I can care less if I miss from time to time. 

Generic builds are still possible.  Unless you’re in a squad to have to assume you can fight anyone or GTFO.  As for missiles, I miss the old system just because of the lack of missile spam and reloading costs.