discussion about recent increases in ore requirements - update 1.3.4

Game Discussion Levelling and Economy
#1

With the update 1.3.4 we got a new change when it comes to ore crafting in the Workshop.

Previous values very pretty much a norm and fair. You needed 2 neodium ores to craft 1 neodium plate and 3 beryllium ores to craft 1 enriched beryllium rod.

However, now you need 10 units of ore for both neodium and beryllium.

 

We need to discuss, what we really want and expect in the update 1.3.5, which will most likely arrive in less than 1 week from now.

We need to account to the following factors.

 

  • acceptable grind factors from the looting screen and resource adjustments for the Open Space in certain period of time

  • acceptable crafting requirements in the Workshop

  • availability in all game modes (PvP, PvE looting screen and Open Space mode)

  • acceptable and affordable prices for GS in the Store with necessary adjustments

 

As you can see in the screenshot, 10 units of ore is needed to craft 1 neodium plate and enriched beryllium rod.

2qjvejm.png

Let me know what you think.

 

I must also consider the price and usefulness of Bundle packs from the Store now. They just became extremely expensive and pretty much useless now, due to amount of resources needed to build a Destroyer!

hry39j.png

2liwtbk.png

 

The purpose of this thread is to give a fair number, that will be acceptable for both parties, players and developers. Balance is necessary for both resources and Store Bundles.

Balance means a number with an acceptable grind levels, time and income invested for either free or paid value. However, looting chances shouldn’t get lowered or changed, if this is reverted to suggested values.

 

 

I am also want to remind you, that you can use this guide, which can help you with an approximate evaluation of time and resources, when you want to build a certain ship, like a Secret Project or a Destroyer.

#2

Holy flop how do you have so much of each???

#3

Holy flop how do you have so much of each???

Well, to be honest, I know every spot for each location. I do the dailies and get a mysterious container in each sector.

Of course, I got enough impure resources to craft 25 more neodium plates, but I always leave some reserve, so that the number could have been even higher, than the one you see.

 

I suspect that they also lowered the chances/drop rates for neodium plates. I used to get 2-6 daily, but now I am lucky, if I even get 1 each day. Yeah, I suspect that 1.3.4 also brought some ninja nerfs in OS.

#4

1st id say that the recent changes seem to be part of a general overhaul of the game economy, some of them pretty good. Little subtle changes that have longer term implications. Personally i want to see where this goes before jumping to any conclusions right now.

 

As for the GS containers what is maybe missing here is some actual screens of what they offer rather than anecdotal evidence of them not being worth it.

 

Additionally i want to see less destroyers in pvp (none at all) so in a way ill be glad if they are actually harder to obtain through the wallet. One less fool in a destroyer who adds nothing to the team.

#5

I suspect that they also lowered the chances/drop rates for neodium plates. I used to get 2-6 daily, but now I am lucky, if I even get 1 each day. Yeah, I suspect that 1.3.4 also brought some ninja nerfs in OS.

I can indeed say that this is most likely the case, since whenever I go into OS with the spatial scanner on I am lucky to find 1 plate in a 3 hour run whereas before hand I could find up to 10 in a run.

 

Regarding the changes to the requirements to enriched beryllium and neodium plates however… the amount you need is absolutely nuts to make a destroyer now. Before for a rank 8 you needed 64 impure neodium for both internal structures whilst now you need 320 ore. Previously for a rank 11 destroyer you needed 40 impure neodium and 96 beryllium whereas after the changes you now need 200 impure neodium and 320 beryllium.

 

Now to put that into perspective I’ve been doing  at least 6 hours of pvp a day (except the day when the patch dropped) since the change was released and now have 25 beryllium and 1 impure neodium (I gave up on T3 really) meaning that had the change not been implemented then I would have 0.5 neodium plates and 8 enriched beryllium which is a fair amount for the input time.

 

Oh, and I’m not even going to bother with mentioning the monocrystal grind increase. I gave up on daily missions long ago.

#6

i’m ok with the pre-1.3.4 system, but add in pvp / pve loot drops to that (balanced obviously) - if the number of impure ore required still remains higher than that, at least increase the drop rates by percentage to match

also, make it so any goddamn ship you fly has access to them (meaning synergy levels, not ranks)

 

as far as i noticed, i think the mono dailies need to be reverted back to 2 / 3 monos AND keep them in pvp / pve loot drops - you need neod and berry for just some ships, but monos you need for freakin EVERYTHING

#7

95HLPYy.jpg

AZo0uwY.jpg

 

I voted for unchanged, I got neo in most of my r8 pve battles and sometimes it drops 2 with a mono too. Getting +3 loot chance certainly helps. I am not sure about the drop chance for 4 doters.

#8

95HLPYy.jpg

AZo0uwY.jpg

I voted for unchanged, I got neo in most of my r8 pve battles and sometimes it drops 2 with a mono too. Getting +3 loot chance certainly helps. I am not sure about the drop chance for 4 doters.

There is one of your choice faults. You think of with your increased chance.

The second one is OS. You find the same one ore as before, not the 3x/5x of it at the same lootattempt.

I couldn’t choose in the poll ‘I never bought bundle packs nor I ever will’. That’s the vote for indifferent/unsure.

#9

I put 10 for berry because in its current rate It is possible to get a r11 destroyer in less time than any regular SP ship. The problem is still the monocrystal.

Lowered neo requirement would be fine for letting everyone get a r8 DD fast and enjoy it as everyone else.

About bundles… well, as my luck goes usually I am not good at picking the right stuff so I am not a fun of spending on anything that I don’t know what it contains.

 

My calculations are time related tbh. I will not and can not play much more than I played before no matter how each game mode’s loot types and drop rates change. It is nice to get these mats in pvp and such, this change was very much needed. But I take into account the time I need for a pvp/pve/pva, I also know that about how many wins I have on average and how many times I can get to looting, and then the drop rate comes into the equation. These add up fast. So in the current state of looting for newer players ship building does not look too good or tempting I think.

 

Of course, it all applies to a free to play gamer. With a dlc loot bonus and license the story is completely different. The current direction of economy development is pushing hard towards payed contents. But who could blame them for this. Time is money in the game just like in RL. 

#10

I put 10 for berry because in its current rate It is possible to get a r11 destroyer in less time than any regular SP ship.

 

no way.

 

this is probably a very subjective view of things. i got all ships over the years, no destro in sight, not even close*

oh, yeah SP ships, even those were easier, but i still dont got those. not that SP ships should be actually harder to get - and not that R11 destros should be harder to get than a R15 SP ship…

 

it really depends, if you are a new player or not, and can still use the rank upgrade bonuses.

 

and no, there is no excuse for making the basegame less fun without paying. that is just preemptive marketing.

you can get more money of a product, if you make the basegame work “by itself”, and then introduce shortcuts for paying, for those, who are even to lazy for that.

 

the license should be some kind of “omg boost”, instead of basicly just getting to a “playable game”.

and you know it, and i know in your heart you would agree instantly to this, and since f2p makes more money even if it fails than a boxed game, always, there is also no need to officially defend such behaviour imho.

#11

no way.

 

this is probably a very subjective view of things. i got all ships over the years, no destro in sight, not even close.

 

it really depends, if you are a new player or not, and can still use the rank upgrade bonuses.

 

and no, there is no excuse for making the basegame less fun without paying. that is just preemptive marketing.

you can get more money of a product, if you make the basegame work “by itself”, and then introduce shortcuts for paying, for those, who are even to lazy for that.

 

the license should be some kind of “omg boost”, instead of basicly just getting to a “playable game”.

and you know it, and i know in your heart you would agree instantly to this, and since f2p makes more money even if it fails than a boxed game, always, there is also no need to officially defend such behaviour imho.

As always, your opinion has been noted and I agree with it. You obviously know how things need to be handled, or how they should be handled.

In the next update 1.3.5 we will see, who is really right. My claims or their claims, if they will even read or listen to what has been said here.

 

 

I will make a summary about this 1.3.4 update in general:

 

People or person in charge have only one objective now.

To make a product, which by itself is worth spending on.

Good, but there is more that needs to be said. Balance between F2P(Free to Play) and P2G(Pay to Get) isn’t balanced at all right now!

It’s not the money that’s a problem, it’s the greed!

I spoke to Russians and they agree about the current “Store issues” with the Bundles, because of increased resources. It is simple.

You don’t play a Russian Roulette, but you also play a lottery with poor chances to get some measly items. It’s not obsolete now, but it’s hardly worth it.

 

The Developers and the Publisher needs to remember one simple thing.

This game could have been so much popular than it is.

Problem is that these issues are critical for the game’s future.

However, these problems are pretty simple to solve or fix. That’s a good thing.

 

Money is always good, but when start to carry it in your heart, you will lose it eventually and then abandonment of morals and ethics begins.

Greed will come over and then it only goes downwards from here in the end. But maybe such thing is acceptable and moral, or necessary for some.

Make a better way to squeeze, to actually encourage to spend more money out of loyal and supportive customers.

 

You should balance your inner compass within you. Remember the scales! They need to be balanced! This is now balanced towards greed. Greed is a sin! You need to earn money, but do it in a right way!

Ridiculous grind is not the answer we are looking for. I don’t have any problems, because I can afford “almost” everything in the game.

But most people don’t and they don’t have either time nor patience to grind like I had to in the past, nor it’s possible.

 

Begin with first 3 steps!

 

  • re-implementation of 4 and 3-men (“multiple”) squads in PvP

  • separation, or separate game mode for rank 8/11/14 Destroyers in PvP

  • revised and balanced economy in the Store, PvP, PvE and Open Space

 

Just a few simple tweaks and this game can become much more popular again. However, for that to happen, you should listen to players, who know what they are saying.

And not just any players, but those, who supported you from the start and those who know, how the game works and how it should be played to be enjoyable.

Problem is that you calculated that it’s better to appease rookies… and that’s why we got Destroyers today. It’s not wrong that we have them.

I am not against Destroyers themselves, but I am against it, when they appear in PvP and Leagues and when I am forced to play against them.

 

I do not hate the game itself, but I just can’t recommend it on Steam right now.

It’s not the issue with the game now, but mainly with the economy, which is unbalanced and biased against F2P customer. This can all be changed with the update 1.3.5!

Either soften the resource requirements or revert them back, or increase the Store Bundle benefits to match and balance current 1.3.4 requirements.

 

 

 

Regards,

Koromac

#12

…

Well, subjective it is. I have 7 out of 9 SP ships and got a r8 and a r11 destroyer. Also, I have enough mono for another ship to manufacture. But all this is because I haven’t missed too many days collecting the dailies and doing the event missions for monos. The latter one helped a lot last December. But the previous system was predictable and I could plan ahead with mono collecting. In the current system it is mostly a lottery.

 

 

About beryllium. I don’t have too much problem getting it. Since I built mine a little ahead of the broker missions for berries ended, I have not cared about berries much. I had about 4-5 from the last broker missions, I helped my corpmates out with a few ones as well, and still, I have 33 e berries now. So, with a month or so farming the necessary beryllium is easily achievable… in my case. Although, I have to mention that I had license for one month. But that GS came from tournaments and other rewards and I bought it on sale so it took me about a month to collect that amount. But even without license I am getting a few here and there. I think it takes about 2-3 days to make an e berry with very few pvp/pve/pva playing. Oh, I also have to mention that I’ve got about 5-6 e berries from mysterious containers.

 

 

I am not playing much rank 8 so I can’t tell how neo drops but as I see it is less common to me than berry. And I barely get any mono (except from spec ops from time to time and strangely from login rewards lately) so I am nowhere near to my old mono income.

 

 

Again, R8 destros are fine to get fast and easily. They are not so hard to overcome in pvp(except in tournament which makes it much less fun). R14s, however, are too much of a game changers so there needs to be some kind of limitations on their presence in the game.

 

 

I agree with you on the problem of loot search number increase by license and dlc bonus and also by the use of spatial scanner (since this is the only thing that makes OS feel rewarding or worth to play… other than the 3 dailies). These boosts in economy put a player so much ahead of free to play gamers. But there has to be something other than premium ships and buyable cosmetic upgrades. I can feel that the ingame income increased by real money is not the best way to go by for a f2p game but I myself can’t think of other ways if I imagine myself in the place of the game makers. These things will always leave a bad taste in the mouth of non paying players… so to speak. Anyhow, right now the game does not feel so free to play even though most of the contents are accessible (as always been) for non paying gamers… over time.

#13

…

 

Ah, the storage thing. I can’t understand why the limitation and capacity haven’t been increased yet. Especially after newer and newer ships are popping up.

#14

I’ve been getting about .8 beryllium per PvP match so I think somewhere along the way the rates were increased slightly. That’s a good sign, but it’s still impractical for gaining useful materials as you need 10 to make a single refined item.

#15

I’ve yet to see a single piece of beryllium.

#16

I’ve yet to see a single piece of beryllium.

You know you have to use only r11 ships for that, right? Just to make sure.

 

 

 

 

 

 

And this below:

#17

I’ve yet to see a single piece of beryllium.

You cant see it if you cant win.

#18

recent changes are logical. People complained from the very beginning that destroyers were too expensive, yet T3 and T4 is flooded with them. If I ever tweaked economy of destroyers like this, I would do it to get some time to focus on balancing the system. I can’t see this staying forever. There surely need to be done changes. Developers statement is right tho. 

#19

recent changes are logical. People complained from the very beginning that destroyers were too expensive, yet T3 and T4 is flooded with them. If I ever tweaked economy of destroyers like this, I would do it to get some time to focus on balancing the system. I can’t see this staying forever. There surely need to be done changes. Developers statement is right tho. 

So, it is right now that we have to spend 3-5 times as much for 1 T3 or T4 Destroyer, while other players before update 1.3.4 had to spend 3-5 times less?

Remember, Store Bundle packs were not adjusted to balance this increase for Destroyer parts and Very Rare Destroyer parts.

#20

I completely agree. My point was, that I would have done this to slow down the destroyer build rate. At least for now, until I find a solution to it.