What you didn’t get is not that they don’t listen feedback, they listen to everyone’s feedback and you can’t say “everyone thinks X”.
I can’t count how much people (including you) said “every players want fixed tiers” before I came and strongly shown my point of view.
Polls (even if you say they’re useless) have more power than posts, still you only do posts,…
you can’t make the dev change something just because YOU said they’re wrong, it’s a more complicated process.
Polls (even if you say they’re useless) have more power than posts, still you only do posts,…
you can’t make the dev change something just because YOU said they’re wrong, it’s a more complicated process.
Regarding this matter I have the same worries as Jasan.
And actually Jasan and I have enough experience with this game that we actually can predict or know where this mechanics has weakspots.
How many Deathsquads have you met? Now, dont think about one, think about 3 on the same side. In many cases it wont be a fight it will be a slaughterfest. As result SQ will die very soon. Nobody likes to get farmed over and over again.
What you didn’t get is not that they don’t listen feedback, they listen to everyone’s feedback and you can’t say “everyone thinks X”.
I can’t count how much people (including you) said “every players want fixed tiers” before I came and strongly shown my point of view.
Polls (even if you say they’re useless) have more power than posts, still you only do posts,…
you can’t make the dev change something just because YOU said they’re wrong, it’s a more complicated process.
As I’ve said, we’ve had officially run polls where the player base clearly stated, in both the forums and in game, that the overwhelming majority of players on the forums wanted Fixed Tiers, and the clear majority in-game wanted Fixed Tiers as well.
Guess what the Devs did. I’ll give you a clue; it wasn’t what the majority wanted.
Second, multiple players - all experienced, with good post counts - produced well conceived, well structured and very well supported threads about redesigning the ship tiers.
No change to the ship tier took place, bar the inclusion of one or two new links.
Also, no offense Griffin, but you are part of the problem. There was a period of “loud” T2 pilots who showed up and spoke about the game as if they were a veteran T4 pilot. They either assumed that what they experienced in the training, solo-driven tiers applied equally to the squad-focused T3 / T4 games, or they just didn’t care and touted their own experiences as fact.
Well I’ve seen plenty. I’ve experienced the joy of flying a “white” R10 and being matched with 3 solos against the ESB killer-elite. I’ve watched the quality of high tier games go down and down since we lost Fixed Tiers. While I do not say every update is bad, I do say the overall trend is down - grind goes up, complexity goes down, match quality goes down.
This is just yet another example of the Devs not listening to the players, and clearly not being players themselves.
It is not just that they don’t listen to me, it’s that they don’t listen to anyone who has something worth listening to!
My opinion is that this mode will be great. They still have to twitch it a little, but I don’t see major issues. After all it will be final content. It won’t be fair that a new corp with rank 6 squad could get a sector
I like it being cold and harsh. That will improve performance and population of higher tiers.
Because if you want to compete in final content you will need to train an grind in standard pvp.
Some of the ideas of Jasan are good, but let them test first this nee mode and twitch it a little.
Empire will get whole map.
GG
We have already explained our logic. Should you not like it - ok, thank you for your personal opinion, we will take it into account. As well as opinions of other players. You have provided us with feedback on the matter. Do you have anything else to say regarding the system?
There’s logic in NO logic? This isn’t my “personal opinion”, in case you haven’t been reading the ENTIRE THREAD. We gave you the feedback we wanted to give, the feedback that will NOT kill this game in a few months. You, relentlessly, continue to defenestrate anything we will ever have to say. And that’s not how games are made.
- I have a reason to use my T5.
Stopped reading there. This is the SOLE reason people will join SecCon. Because they already have T5 ships. And they’re all willing to be cannon fodder to ESB Death Squads.
Sector Conquest will not include fixed tiers. We have already commented on that. Anything else?
Then ALL the T5 pilots will enjoy the 30 minute wait time to get into a match, because that’s where SecCon is heading towards. Within a month, 80% of the playerbase will stop playing SecCon. Who’s left? ESB, NASA, WPK, Rage (the VERY few T5 pilots they have) and a few other “top corps” are mostly Empire-based. There will be NO ONE to play SecCon for. Will you still receive any feedback whatsoever if no one plays it? Well, I guess not, because you’ll have no data on your precious logs. You’ll only have us. On the forums. complaining about it. But, unfortunately for everyone that plays in the game, you do NOT consider us, the only people that give a damn about the game, to be valid feedback.
Mark my words, Anti. Those logs will be this game’s downfall.
Sector Conqest is not for girls (sorry ladies if you are reading this).
Well Said Antibus :lol:
You spoke about DeathSquad.
But Actually, I fear more to be matched with a NøøbSquad than be matched against a DeathScouad.
You spoke about DeathSquad.
But Actually, I fear more to be matched with a NøøbSquad than be matched against a DeathScouad.
You wont, because youre on the Empire side :kamikadze:
And hell, you already have problems with the “Derp-Squad” :lol:
My opinion is that this mode will be great. They still have to twitch it a little, but I don’t see major issues. After all it will be final content. It won’t be fair that a new corp with rank 6 squad could get a sector
I like it being cold and harsh. That will improve performance and population of higher tiers.
Because if you want to compete in final content you will need to train an grind in standard pvp.
It’s a good idea in theory, but do you really think it’ll make people improve?
The current system is clearly not improving people. If anything, it takes less skill to fly in T4 now than it took to fly in T3 in the fixed tier era. The argument that people will get better by grinding to T5 before hopping to Sector Conquest is a bit of a stretch given this fact.
What has hurt players is the “protection” from squads. When your opponents are better than you, you need to get better to compete. However, if they are too good then you won’t improve - you’ll be driven away.
This is likely what the Devs intended to achieve with mixed tiers; when you don’t have to pick and choose players from a single tier you can find more equally skilled pilots. The issue there is that pilots clearly resented this system, as proven by the massive drop in players when Mixed Tiers came out.
The best way to make people good is to try to establish a nice, smooth curve; players enter at the shallow end, and things get increasingly challenging.
Sector Conquest is clearly not going to do this under the current proposed method. Since the only Corps that can actually do anything are the elite, this change devalues all other Corps. There is no point in making your own Corp - you should just join NASA or ESB or some other “easy win” Corp so your side gets on the map and you get easy rewards.
The proposed model clearly is not going to produce quality matches, encourage player involvement or avoid stagnation. This is obvious to a lot of people on this thread… yet it’s not obvious to the Dev Team.
Moreover, the continued insult to the players - the fact that they know the majority want Fixed Tiers but have no intention to implement it - is just more proof that they aren’t doing this for anyone’s benefit. They think, through some ill-informed thinking, that this will rekindle popularity in the game. It won’t, but it’s hard for people to tell you that if your fingers are in your ears.
“As I’ve said, we’ve had officially run polls where the player base clearly stated, in both the forums and in game, that the overwhelming majority of players on the forums wanted Fixed Tiers, and the clear majority in-game wanted Fixed Tiers as well.”
Can you give me the numbers ? not the percentages, but the numbers ? And don’t get me the ones you put on a forum since they already were destroyed by simple maths (when you combined forum and ingame poll).
There is something wrong about you : you say poll and post don’t change anything. still you continue doing post without doing a single poll… if poll and post were as “not listened to” as you say, you wouldn’t post anymore.
You cannot change the world with your single opinion, but facts, numbers, solid proof (a single screenshot isn’t a solid proof) can.
SecCon is not made to have a curve… it’s designed as an endgame only mode. (I agree with R5 shouldn’t get in this mode)
“My opinions stated are my own, and should be viewed as such.” These are your own words…
“As I’ve said, we’ve had officially run polls where the player base clearly stated, in both the forums and in game, that the overwhelming majority of players on the forums wanted Fixed Tiers, and the clear majority in-game wanted Fixed Tiers as well.”
Can you give me the numbers ? not the percentages, but the numbers ? And don’t get me the ones you put on a forum since they already were destroyed by simple maths (when you combined forum and ingame poll).
There is something wrong about you : you say poll and post don’t change anything. still you continue doing post without doing a single poll… if poll and post were as “not listened to” as you say, you wouldn’t post anymore.
You cannot change the world with your single opinion, but facts, numbers, solid proof (a single screenshot isn’t a solid proof) can.
SecCon is not made to have a curve… it’s designed as an endgame only mode. (I agree with R5 shouldn’t get in this mode)
We can’t give numbers because the Devs don’t give us numbers from the in-game polls, but it was a clear majority - 55% or more - who wanted Fixed Tiers.
We got Mixed.
In the last, recent poll, a significant number of players have confessed they just clicked on Option A without reading, and said after they wished they’d voted for Fixed Tiers. The Devs wanted this to happen because it gives them false validity.
As you ever though of the in game poll as atomic choices ? Instead of the combinations of 2 factors (meaning you can’t combine numbers as easily) ? if you think the choices are atomic, they followed what in game poll resulted.
There may be a lot of people that chose one choice without reading, that’s surely true. but they also choose mixed without reading. I’ll let you have this one. But the solution isn’t raging “they don’t listen” but rather asking them to add a “neutral” option, checked by default for the future polls, I’ve only seen one person saying this. Sadly this wasn’t directed at the GMs.
Sometimes I wonder if the developers want this game to be an international gaming success (and fill their pockets with money) or their only objective is to make something “funny” for their fellow countrymen while shooing everyone else (and go bankrupt)
Well in most international success games there is no MM at all ^^
As you ever though of the in game poll as atomic choices ? Instead of the combinations of 2 factors (meaning you can’t combine numbers as easily) ? if you think the choices are atomic, they followed what in game poll resulted.
There may be a lot of people that chose one choice without reading, that’s surely true. but they also choose mixed without reading. I’ll let you have this one. But the solution isn’t raging “they don’t listen” but rather asking them to add a “neutral” option, checked by default for the future polls, I’ve only seen one person saying this. Sadly this wasn’t directed at the GMs.
The first time the poll was made was before you joined the game, and the majority choice was in favour of Fixed Tiers. We got Mixed Tiers.
By that logic, the majority choice this time was for Mixed, so we should be getting Fixed Tiers back, but we aren’t.
Again, I am not simply referring to what “I” want. I am referring to some of the truly brilliant posts made by players who, for the most part, have quit now because they were not listened to.
I’d bet good money that you have never experienced the game at its height. I’ve flown against ESB kill-teams. I’ve spoken with vets, people who have played longer than I, who confess they don’t fly at the top tier because “I don’t want to fly against the death squads”, or “there aren’t enough players up there”.
The fact you’ve admitted you’ve played about 300 games shows that, whatever else you claim, you don’t have the kind of experience to be giving comprehensive feedback. The people debating against you have 5-10x as many games under their belt as you. Many of them flew Jerrycans, under fixed tiers and even took part in Closed Beta.
The feedback of this slice of the player base - and in this situation I include myself, rightly or wrongly - is based upon hard experience. It’s written by people who have flown the upper / top tiers, or alongside those who do. It’s from people who used to be in the top Corps, ones that went under because their best players quit the game. They know why those players quit, and they try to change the game back to a form that would win those ex-players over again.
Bizarrely, the Devs are quite proud that they “listen” to the players, and are eager to claim they have included ideas submitted by the players.
This is hilarious when you think about it. People got warnings for accusing them of catering exclusively to the Russians with their Mixed Tier changes, and now it’s so blatant it hurts. How were they catering to Russians, you ask? Because back in the day T4 (T5 wasn’t out yet) was dominated by ESB and other Russian Corps. These players had pure blue Rank 12 ships, which they obtained unfairly. They were around since closed Beta, and leveled up while money and experience was stupidly easy to get. They rocketed up to Rank 12 and beyond - they had so much xp that when Tier 5 came out they could instantly buy their way to Rank 15 and equip pure blue modules!
The commonly held theory was Mixed Tier existed solely for these players - to force more pilots to face the killsquads, and thus keep the Russians happy.
What is the biggest complaint about this proposed patch? The fact that T5 (eg: the Russians) get to farm T4, T3 and even T2 pilots!
When people accuse the Devs of not listening, they point to Fixed Tiers, the Ship Tree, Weapons and Classes.
When the Devs claim they do listen, they point to ship customisation (as if they weren’t going to have a cosmetic system without players asking for it first!) and the fact you can go straight from Hydra 2 to Styx now.
That is akin to people asking MacDonalds to sell them pasta, and then MacDonalds saying “we sell cheese. That’s what you asked for!”
*Next week*
Emperor’s commander:
"By the law of our Glorious Emperor, the Galaxy should be…Must be our !"
"By the Command of our Majestic Emperor, All the Mercenaries working for the Invincible Legion and the Vanguard must be ready to sacrifice his life in the name of the EMPIRE!"
"By my Voice, which is the Emperor’s voice, your orders are to claim all the sectors in His Name !"
*Two day after the patch*
Empire Corp’s member:
"What’s next?"
“The first time the poll was made was before you joined the game, and the majority choice was in favour of Fixed Tiers. We got Mixed Tiers.”
Did you know I joined this game in the beginning of this year ? I flew in fixed tiers.
“By that logic, the majority choice this time was for Mixed, so we should be getting Fixed Tiers back, but we aren’t.”
I must say I wasn’t on the forum back then, so I’ll stick to what you say.
“Again, I am not simply referring to what “I” want. I am referring to some of the truly brilliant posts made by players who, for the most part, have quit now because they were not listened to.”
If you are referring to them, give name and EXACTLY what they say. It’s easy to report what “some people” said that “they agreed with me”. it’s like wanting the politics to changes just because you told them your friends and you think they should (and without votes or anything legal)…
“I’d bet good money that you have never experienced the game at its height. I’ve flown against ESB kill-teams. I’ve spoken with vets, people who have played longer than I, who confess they don’t fly at the top tier because “I don’t want to fly against the death squads”, or “there aren’t enough players up there”.” I flown once against ESB kill squad, I agree I don’t wish that to any gamer I know. But what those players (ESBs) should do ? I’m pretty sure they’d be happy if they met people that could give them a challenge. I’m also pretty sure they enjoy having easy matches as well (which is bad for the whole game).
“The fact you’ve admitted you’ve played about 300 games shows that, whatever else you claim, you don’t have the kind of experience to be giving comprehensive feedback. The people debating against you have 5-10x as many games under their belt as you. Many of them flew Jerrycans, under fixed tiers and even took part in Closed Beta.”
and as I already said, that doesn’t make my point of view void… everyone gets to explain his opinion. Not only vets.
“The feedback of this slice of the player base - and in this situation I include myself, rightly or wrongly - is based upon hard experience. It’s written by people who have flown the upper / top tiers, or alongside those who do. It’s from people who used to be in the top Corps, ones that went under because their best players quit the game. They know why those players quit, and they try to change the game back to a form that would win those ex-players over again.”
I do agree with you, but you talk and hear your “kind” of players your “circle” of friends and the forum. That only a small portion of the playerbase, hence not the whole. But even, what YOU can do is telling them to speak for themselves. The more voices, the more chances you’ll have to get things changed, you can’t “carry” one’s voice. I have my friends but I count what I say as ONE opinion, not my friends and I (5voices).
“The commonly held theory was Mixed Tier existed solely for these players - to force more pilots to face the killsquads, and thus keep the Russians happy.” As i may seems the case (I don’t have experience to tell if it’s true or false), it’s sounds a lot like a conspiration theory…
“What is the biggest complaint about this proposed patch? The fact that T5 (eg: the Russians) get to farm T4, T3 and even T2 pilots!”
Agreed => only T4+ should join SecCon.
Okay, Griffin, let’s take the following piece of logic:
Sector Conquest is intended as “endgame” content, correct? So what do we consider an “endgame” player?
It can’t be a player who owns a T5 ship, because an oft-occurring complaint is people rushing to Tier 5.
So how do we define a vet? Shall we define them as a player who has been part of the game for a long time, is a member of a Corp that is active in, and actively seeking to participate in, Corp vs Corp battles, or as someone who is widely recognised by the forum community as “veteran”?
So… a lot of the people posting on here seem to be fit into one definition of “veteran” or another. A lot of them are either dubious about, or flat out against this change.
When the very players this game is meant to cater for are saying it is not going to work, then surely the Devs should listen and change it?
Now, given that… is there any indication they are going to? Case in point: we have the CEO of Wolfpack and one of the most well-known ESB pilots both voicing concerns about this, and yet the Devs are simply saying “we will monitor the situation”.
An intelligent group of developers would spot this potential issue and say “Okay, you are the kind of players we are aiming Sector Conquest toward, and you are not liking it. How can we change it so it sounds more appealing to you?”
I can already Taste the fear in the Emperor’s ennemies when they imagine the result of the combinaison between NASA Engeeniring’s Fleets and ESB’s Deathbringer Scouad 