I have said elsewhere that a limited number of options is not a problem, so long as those options are A) real options and not false choices, and B) they are varied and different.
I would rather play a game with four weapons that all felt unique and fun to use than a game with forty weapons of which only four were worth using.
On top of that, lets take away ammo types that allow different types of damage because we wouldn’t want people not to know exactly what’s being shot at them.
that’s actually a good thing. the only bad is that you can’t change your setup during a match between spawns.
In space, should I really know if a fighter was going to be packing “tackler mods” or “command mods” or “gunship mods”? In my opinion, no. I should just see a blip of relative size to the craft from my scanner and I wouldn’t know what he’s packing.
actually, you should. it’s called IFF (identification friend or foe) in modern aircraft. in combination with AWACS and other electronic techniques it’ll give you the aircraft model.
But, instead of giving us more choices with each patch, every “improvement” in the last number of patches has, in my opinion, been a limitation of options to level the playing field between experienced and nonexperienced players
weapons just don’t fit the roles of the ships all that well, but i agree they also need more variations on top of that.
in fact, the changes have been to give higher tiers an even bigger advantage over lowers tiers to push people up the ranks and make games even more imbalanced… projectile speeds and now weapon ranges…
so now people will cry even more that they’re being stomped on by kill squads… congratulation, you are the father of a new ugly baby! 
Old weapon modifiers were absolutely incredible.
So why change them?
To dumb it all down, of course!
Old weapon modifiers were absolutely incredible.
old modifiers made resistances and phase shields worthless.
they broke game mechanics. switching damage type shouldn’t be allowed on the fly.
however, it should be permitted during respawn.
old modifiers made resistances and phase shields worthless.
They made Phase Shields require some skill. And this assumption is actually very misguided. Let me explain:
The only modifier given any worth in this fashion was the needle deflector, which allowed plasma users to do more damage to hull.
Now why on Earth would you use it against a shield, of all things?!
that’s actually a good thing. the only bad is that you can’t change your setup during a match between spawns.
M2 BFV 25mm, selector switch for Armor Piercing or High Explosive. Two different types of rounds at the flip of a switch. It’s possible. In my opinion it makes sense and their change limited the options to appease new players.
actually, you should. it’s called IFF (identification friend or foe) in modern aircraft. in combination with AWACS and other electronic techniques it’ll give you the aircraft model.
As for IFF, maybe make that a module you can add. In the end, I don’t care too much about that at this point because I’m 99.9% positive classes are here to stay - was just an aside of “I wish”.
weapons just don’t fit the roles of the ships all that well, but i agree they also need more variations on top of that.
in fact, the changes have been to give higher tiers an even bigger advantage over lowers tiers to push people up the ranks and make games even more imbalanced… projectile speeds and now weapon ranges…
so now people will cry even more that they’re being stomped on by kill squads… congratulation, you are the father of a new ugly baby!
And this is where I strongly disagree with you. I want people who have been around a long time, spent hundreds or even thousands of hours in this game and building this community to be able to work for something and excel. I don’t want handouts. I’m fine with being the little guy for a while. It would make no sense for me to be on par with long-time players from the outset. Not to be harsh, but that seems to me to be the basis for what you and others want. You want people who have worked hard to be put on the same level as those who haven’t worked. This makes no sense to me - but maybe because I believe in Liberty and free markets. 
-Lib
I want people who have been around a long time, spent hundreds or even thousands of hours in this game and building this community to be able to work for something and excel. I don’t want handouts. I’m fine with being the little guy for a while. It would make no sense for me to be on par with long-time players from the outset.
so you want imbalances basically.
Not to be harsh, but that seems to me to be the basis for what you and others want. You want people who have worked hard to be put on the same level as those who haven’t worked. This makes no sense to me - but maybe because I believe in Liberty and free markets.
the only thing you should work hard for is skill.
spending time in a game or money should not give you more power over other players.
as previously mentioned, an experienced player already has that…: experience… if you give them better items, they will just crush everyone else. not even fun.
so you want imbalances basically.
If that’s what you want to call them, sure. Imbalance = the world. I don’t want a fighting game to be Utopia.
the only thing you should work hard for is skill.
spending time in a game or money should not give you more power over other players.
as previously mentioned, an experienced player already has that…: experience… if you give them better items, they will just crush everyone else. not even fun.
So, how about we have no MkII, MkIII or experimental mods at all? How about everyone is given for free the exact same craft to fly? This would be fun for you? No variety. No unknowns. No work to get the best equipment. Everyone, no matter how long they’ve been around has the exact same equipment. Of course, if you can’t buy any new gear, I don’t know why there’s currency at all, and if we’re all given like ships I don’t know what end goals we work for other than an infinite number fast brawls between clones.
Beta, I understand your sentiment, but I strongly disagree. If this is the environment you want from a game, you will have no lasting community. There will be no reason for players to stick around if time+effort does not equal advancement.
-Lib
That’s precisely why I despise Call of Duty so much.
“Oh, you’re on a 3-kill streak? Let me give you perfect radar!”
“Oh, now you’ve got a 5-kill streak? Have an airstrike! That blew up two people! Have an Apache Gunship! Wow! Your gunship just killed six people! You’re the best player ever! Have a nuke that auto-wins the game! Look at how amazing you are!”
No. Not even close. It takes me back to my old Metal Gear Online days. I was a great sniper on that game, and here’s why:
A bad sniper would sit in one of the game’s main sniping spots and shoot at enemy players, then get sniped in turn.
A good sniper would sit in one of the game’s main sniping spots and shoot enemy snipers.
I would creep into the enemy sniping spot, knock them out from behind, steal their sniper rifle and shoot them with it, then kill every sniper that tried to take the sniping spot back.
That’s why I was a great sniper. Working alone, I could tie up the entire enemy sniper division. On some maps, I could tie up the entire enemy team as they wouldn’t risk leaving spawn while I was still alive for fear of being sniped when they broke cover.
That power I possessed came from skill. Ability loadout helped, but it was skill that got me past the enemy front line, into their sniping spots undetected and let me silently knock out their sharpshooters one by one.
This game doesn’t really feel like it encourages skill. It feels more like it’s about “get the best ships and blue / purple modules!” rather than “learn how to control the map and work as a team.” Teamwork is what carries the day in higher tiers, but low-tier play certainly doesn’t foster that kind of mindset.
In space, should I really know if a fighter was going to be packing “tackler mods” or “command mods” or “gunship mods”? In my opinion, no. I should just see a blip of relative size to the craft from my scanner and I wouldn’t know what he’s packing.
Can be argued both ways. Knowing what the enemy will be packing - and their fleet composition - can add to the competitiveness of the game as it’ll allow teams to organize counters etc.
Which is why chess can be played competitively. Unpredictability doesn’t necessarily add to strategy. Probable counter moves do.
I’m guessing the 20->35 example is the target painter, and as such certainly an outlier in effectiveness increase – as I assume you know, hence the snarkiness.
oh you’re right that they don’t all have 75%. at least the passives and mods. most common seems to be 50% increase, with a few having 33% increases.
the active are almost all 75% increases (class-specific ones). if not a straight up increase then other benefits in cooldown, etc… which amount to the same thing. the general non-class specific ones seem to be 50% when cooldowns are taken into account.
prob on average might be about 50%. but some increases break stuff. ie: giving one ecm a range over another with experimental = guaranteed win. also applies to a vast number of other units.
add on top of this the extra modules, implants, missiles, etc… and the effective difference in ship performance is 50-100%.
probably closer to the 50% mark. i once estimated it to be 40%, but not sure any more. in any case, it’s not a laughable difference.
hell, do you even know what i can do with a simple 15% DPS advantage? add on top of that 30% extra survivability and that’s a 45% difference right there…
or consider that with a 4-man squad, that’s like adding 0.6 extra men… even with 3 men, it’s like an extra 0.45 men in terms of DPS. (not counting Mk3 ammo, which would add even more).
Can be argued both ways. Knowing what the enemy will be packing - and their fleet composition - can add to the competitiveness of the game as it’ll allow teams to organize counters etc.
Because the game should be about already knowing how the match will go down before you’ve even engaged anyone right?
It’s not like it’s about player skill, it’s just knowing ‘I have your counter so I’ll win no matter what’
So, how about we have no MkII, MkIII or experimental mods at all?
seems like a rather draconian measure…
all that needs to be done is to make exp mods available on the market, as i outlined in another post. the loot system is broken.
if you can’t buy any new gear, I don’t know why there’s currency at all
for progression, to support the devs, customization options, premium ships (if they ever decide to fix them… AGAIN)…
Beta, I understand your sentiment, but I strongly disagree. If this is the environment you want from a game, you will have no lasting community. There will be no reason for players to stick around if time+effort does not equal advancement.
dude… we used to play PVP games for YEARS… doom2, quake 1, quake 3, rtcw, rtcw:et, guild wars, etc…
how much grind did those games have? none?
what kept the players coming back? a competitive, team-based and balanced gameplay experience…
nothing more…
these days, games are made to cookie-cutter templates, like a mcdonalds franchise. ie: cod/mw… this game is a WoT clone in fact… same business model, cut from the same template. then they release a new model/version/content each year and sell you the same broken game all over again…
the ‘competitive scene’ in online game has just about dried up… nothing comparable to the days of quake 3 and rtcw…
remember, each time you use GS, it sucks some of the life force right out of you!
Can be argued both ways. Knowing what the enemy will be packing - and their fleet composition - can add to the competitiveness of the game as it’ll allow teams to organize counters etc.
Which is why chess can be played competitively. Unpredictability doesn’t necessarily add to strategy. Probable counter moves do.
If I wanted to play chess in space, I would play EVE Online, not something twitchy like SC (though it’s not really twitchy anymore with all the autoaiming and aoe spam)
dude… we used to play PVP games for YEARS… doom2, quake 1, quake 3, rtcw, rtcw:et, guild wars, etc…
how much grind did those games have? none?
what kept the players coming back? a competitive, team-based and balanced gameplay experience…
This explains your somewhat misguided posts and opinions.
You wish for a game where everyone starts equal, where there is no sense of progress, no evolution over time, no new equipment or loot to look forward to - just a lobby based shooter, basically.
This is not that kind of game.
This explains your somewhat misguided posts and opinions.
You wish for a game where everyone starts equal, where there is no sense of progress, no evolution over time, no new equipment or loot to look forward to - just a lobby based shooter, basically.
This is not that kind of game.
i think you’re exaggerating my claims…
you yourself just posted here about progression: [http://forum.star-conflict.com/index.php?/topic/20981-star-conflict-obt-v091-discussion/?p=219151](< base_url >/index.php?/topic/20981-star-conflict-obt-v091-discussion/?p=219151)
if you read half of my posts, you’d see that i never said anything of the sort.
i said it requires toning down of the performance difference between ranks/tiers… then you can even have all the mixed tier matches you want without problems… in fact making the game even more fun…
btw, waiting 6 months to get the experimental mod you need is nobody’s idea of fun… especially due to RNG, it might even be a year before you get the ones you need…
meanwhile, some other ‘lucky’ player will get one in a month… that’s balance? not really…
bro, we already know you have vested interests to maintain your advantage over other players… you’re wpk, you’re a mod, you’re probably been around since CBT or earlier… who knows…
whatever the case, soon enough you won’t have anybody to play with, besides the 100 users who download the game each month only to uninstall it a month later, so all your experimental mods will be useless
however, to counter your statement: what you want is an open world pve grind… may i suggest eve online? ;p you want to ‘role play’, aww isn’t that cute? ;p hehe
pvp games aren’t about role-playing, they’re about straight up killing people… day in, day out… for years… if you don’t find a… certain pleasure in ‘killing’ people online, then i dunno… but have you ever considered seeing a doctor about that? ;p
This explains your somewhat misguided posts and opinions.
You wish for a game where everyone starts equal, where there is no sense of progress, no evolution over time, no new equipment or loot to look forward to - just a lobby based shooter, basically.
This is not that kind of game.
erm… i agree with points made by beta. his delivery … 
but still valid. And I share those views
only difference is, he wants to run with it.
me - I know it’s a lost cause lol.
competitive pvp - level playing field - all that
Progression is a lazy game design formula to extend game shelf life.
That formula unfortunately works
For sh*t products for a limited time
Star Conflict is an awesome game with AAA gameplay
It does not need progression caps to artificially extend longevity
Dev says: But we need it for income
Kine says: churn out value content and sell those
add a competitive PVE scene and monetize that
pay to play some parts of the game if the fanbase is strong enough … like high level corp v corp action for eg.
Problem is Gaijin doesn’t believe in it’s own product
I dunno what the deal is with StarGem and Gaijin.
There are publishers who initiate their projects along the lines of
“Ok … lets clone game X,Y,Z — Take what makes them money and combine. Hope it sells”
But somehow - StarGem hit way beyond target and actually produced a kik fakin as product
And Gaijin doesnt know how to respond
“Stick to the plan boys! Complete the cloning process. Bills have been paid … except your salaries …”
So here we are …
Beta ranting, Me reading … GLHF
[edit] disclaimer - like I said - dont really know the r’ship between the 2. fault could lie with StarGem for all we know. Or the bosses for both is the same guy / stakeholder w/e. Point being - someone is dicking it up.
[edit] disclaimer - like I said - dont really know the r’ship between the 2. fault could lie with StarGem for all we know. Or the bosses for both is the same guy / stakeholder w/e. Point being - someone is dicking it up.
It wouldn’t be the first time a publisher *completely* ruined a fantastic game . . . .
erm… i agree with points made by beta. his delivery …
i’m sorry i don’t do delivery. try pizza hut?
This game doesn’t really feel like it encourages skill. It feels more like it’s about “get the best ships and blue / purple modules!” rather than “learn how to control the map and work as a team.” Teamwork is what carries the day in higher tiers, but low-tier play certainly doesn’t foster that kind of mindset.
I can mostly support this comment. I do think that teamwork still can be practiced to control the map, although I don’t even remember T1 PvP so I can’t really speak about that. The trend so far does seem to me to be making teamwork less and less important for winning a game but it’s still there.
Can be argued both ways. Knowing what the enemy will be packing - and their fleet composition - can add to the competitiveness of the game as it’ll allow teams to organize counters etc.
I agree with this. Not that I would make it a priority, but perhaps the feature would be best as a recon module. If a recon runs it, his whole team sees the enemy composition within the Recon’s range. If not, they simply see blips. But again, in the end, not something I’m too concerned with. Much more concerned with the squad issue.
however, to counter your statement: what you want is an open world pve grind… may i suggest eve online? ;p you want to ‘role play’, aww isn’t that cute? ;p hehe
pvp games aren’t about role-playing, they’re about straight up killing people… day in, day out… for years… if you don’t find a… certain pleasure in ‘killing’ people online, then i dunno… but have you ever considered seeing a doctor about that? ;p
As far as I’ve seen, EvilTactician was respectful to you despite disagreement. Extend the favor back please.
And his point is that this is not a brainless shooter, or at least it wasn’t. It has rewarded hard work and has small strategy elements the developers have implemented over the last few months. A game doesn’t [have] to be either brainless PvP shooter or intense strategy. It can be any combination between the two. To make the statement that it must be either-or is illogical.
-Lib (mobile)