I suggest we reduce the massive hit points pool allocated to Destroyers. They honestly take too long to kill.
This can be reduced by a cap or simply reducing the base values.
I’ve given up hoping for this. Devs just refuse to rebalance the damn things.
Then again, with the big games we’ve been having since the last patch, destroyers die faster.
no need to dest are great like that
There are quite a few counters to destroyers, dude. Try some of these out. You don’t necessarily have to KILL one, but you can render one useless enough to the point where it contributes nearly nothing to the enemy team effort. An example I’m thinking of is when it is Beacon Hunt, and you destroy the black hole/wormhole projector. It’s now basically a brick in space and a liability to the team, being unable to deny beacons or move to the one being contested.
Try some of these methods out. Don’t know if you know some of these already:
- Destroyers take 200% damage from explosions. This includes bubbles, kinetic supercharger, missiles, coil mortars, whatever you can think of to inflict explosive damage.
- ECM stuns work for twice the effective duration on a destroyer. For example - a 4 second diffuser will actually work for 8 seconds on a destroyer.
- A devastating method that we often employ in our squads is a bubble gunship with firestorm missiles. Two of those will make short work of any destroyer, no matter how tanky.
- If you fire a doomsday or EM torp or anomaly generator into a destroyer when its shields are down, you are almost guaranteed to take out a module.
- Speaking of modules, every time you destroy one you do pure damage. Aim for those specifically in your short range inties.
- And speaking of inties, a well-placed plasma arc will ravage a destroyer. I know you can play covops well, so ram that arc up a destroyer’s engine nacelle for best results.
Yeah, destroyer hull durability is completely out of line. Compared to fighters and interceptors, frigates are less durable than what their size and lack of mobility would suggest (which is a good thing for gameplay overall), while destroyers have their projected durability multiplied. Considering that frigates already are mostly incapable of dodging anything, there shouldn’t be any reason to make destroyer durability so high.
1 hour ago, EndeavSTEEL said:
no need to dest are great like that
Okay. Can I get some extra 40000 hull durability for my Inquisitor AE then? Oh, and make those guided torpedos do no self or team damage while at it. Because you seem to think that things like this are fair.
7 minutes ago, Mecronmancer said:
Destroyers take 200% damage from explosions.
Destroyer explosive damage multiplier was 1.74 the last time I tested in game. Has anyone done some tests lately?
1 hour ago, Vohvelielain said:
Yeah, destroyer hull durability is completely out of line. Compared to fighters and interceptors, frigates are less durable than what their size and lack of mobility would suggest (which is a good thing for gameplay overall), while destroyers have their projected durability multiplied. Considering that frigates already are mostly incapable of dodging anything, there shouldn’t be any reason to make destroyer durability so high…
Okay. Can I get some extra 40000 hull durability for my Inquisitor AE then? Oh, and make those guided torpedos do no self or team damage while at it. Because you seem to think that things like this are fair…
…Destroyer explosive damage multiplier was 1.74 the last time I tested in game. Has anyone done some tests lately?
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Nope, every time my shield drops on my sibyl I seem to die less than 1-3 minutes later, no matter the aggro status when my shields wind up dropping.
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Wat.
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Explosive modifier has always been 2.0 for destroyers. Nothing has changed.
On original release it was 1.5 or 1.6 then it got into 1.74 (1.75?) and later became 2.0
2 hours ago, Vohvelielain said:
Destroyer explosive damage multiplier was 1.74 the last time I tested in game. Has anyone done some tests lately?
It is 200%. Tested 1 week ago.
T4 destroyers are very tanky, but i believe it comes from so many resistance bonuses. Ive always believed destroyers tank too much (even that i fly and enjoy them a lot), however latest games at T3 have made me change my mind…perhaps if T4 destroyers would not have those 2 resist bonus, they would tank properly. If theres any nerf to survability of destroyers, it should happen by reducing base volume by a small amount.
6 hours ago, Mecronmancer said:
And speaking of inties, a well-placed plasma arc will ravage a destroyer. I know you can play covops well, so ram that arc up a destroyer’s engine nacelle for best results.
Yeah. Of course. If you didn’t use it 15 seconds ago to disable another destroyer.
My main problem is with t4 destroyers, and that’s the main reason why I don’t play r11-13 anymore. Gravi-lens is a nightmare in beacon matches, photon makes knifing destroyers impossible (it has immense trigger radius, you just shoot it to your back and you are sure that you are going to kill the inty), and they can be specialized for enormous hull tank (something like over 400k effective hit points), incredibly fast shield regeneration, or fighter-like speed.
We’re not planing to implement big changes in destroyers’ ballance for now. Pilots had worked hard to manufacture those, it will be not a good way to nerf it so much. During current event, destroyers proved themselves in the game, like the special type of ships with it’s own gameplay. But small changes with destroyers are almost always welcome, and we did them from time to time in the updates ”)
15 minutes ago, CinnamonFake said:
We’re not planing to implement big changes in destroyers’ ballance for now. Pilots had worked hard to manufacture those, it will be not a good way to nerf it so much. During current event, destroyers proved themselves in the game, like the special type of ships with it’s own gameplay. But small changes with destroyers are almost always welcome, and we did them from time to time in the updates ”)
hp cap or nerf to base hp would not be ‘big change’, only that ispo sible to kill with less than 1000% dedicated build.now that squads again there is chance for teamwork to kill but still not good in small game (2v2? good lock without dedicated gunship cov ops)
idk we will see now that players can squad, teamwork is best way to kill them but they are defintly stil OP. some change is need and we will see what that is.
11 hours ago, Mecronmancer said:
ECM stuns work for twice the effective duration on a destroyer. For example - a 4 second diffuser will actually work for 8 seconds on a destroyer.
can you confirm/2nd opinion? my friend loves ecm but doesnt take 2nd disable most of time…
what I dont understand if this all true why make so compicated with rando ‘oh this thing gets 2x effect’ etc when you could just nerf hp and have simple fix? not necesarry to make all so many random complicated counters, simple is better
11 hours ago, Vohvelielain said:
Yeah, destroyer hull durability is completely out of line. Compared to fighters and interceptors, frigates are less durable than what their size and lack of mobility would suggest (which is a good thing for gameplay overall), while destroyers have their projected durability multiplied. Considering that frigates already are mostly incapable of dodging anything, there shouldn’t be any reason to make destroyer durability so high.
Okay. Can I get some extra 40000 hull durability for my Inquisitor AE then? Oh, and make those guided torpedos do no self or team damage while at it. Because you seem to think that things like this are fair.
Destroyer explosive damage multiplier was 1.74 the last time I tested in game. Has anyone done some tests lately?
do you guys even keep in mind that dest are big damn heavy ship ? i mean it’s normal that the dest hull is large… what will happen if a dest will get only 20k hp ? instant kill. because:
1st:extremly easy to hit with any weapon in the game
2nd: they can’t do anything versus multiple player
3rd: they can’t take cover easily and fast as a fregate or fighter inter
4th:you can see them to the other side of a map so you can planify the way your gona take him out
5th: dest hull will depend about how a player will build it (AGAIN i’m telling that)
dest are by far the most funny experience i have in the game since long time… NO NERF NEEDED .
(sry for caps line and my bad english).
I like the slow, fat destroyers to destroy. This is so good! Many poor guy is the only usable ship. .png “:576a55a9bca5d_):”)
2 hours ago, CinnamonFake said:
We’re not planing to implement big changes in destroyers’ ballance for now. Pilots had worked hard to manufacture those, it will be not a good way to nerf it so much. During current event, destroyers proved themselves in the game, like the special type of ships with it’s own gameplay. But small changes with destroyers are almost always welcome, and we did them from time to time in the updates ”)
I am actually not quite interested how much they worked for it, for the balance. Not talking about uber nerfs, but balance ”)
I have to say, one thing is indeed annoying, and thats the photon launcher on close range. Imho that weapon should - like the torp - have an activation time, and be less effective in close quarters.
Gravi has been patched around, still saying it needs a no-kill damage system, or some thought how you can have both “rapid fast small damage area weapons” without disrupting the beacon capturing meta. E.g. it could not disrupt capture, if you still got shields left, as it goes directly to hull.
As I dont fly a Destro, I have no idea about their tankiness, all I see in the balance is their offensive capabilities, and there I only dislike the easy-kill buttons. The only weapon I respect is that beam, since if you dont manage to get out of its way, you deserve that damage.
I also slightly dislike the destro jump, as compared to other ships, bigger ships doing large movements always comes with a pre-animated time of possible countering. I think, the recon has the right to be the fastest in trying to get away, and still, it seems easier to spot and disrupt a recon warp than a destro one, while the LRF has its camo but still does a quite visible animation for its jump. Destrojumps seem sudden, and the only way to predict them is actually, predicting them wildly, while countering other movements like that is already hard enough (like timing a command missile to hit a recon exactly after he hits warp)
In fact its even hard sometimes to follow a jumped destro of your own team.
finally, the best balance i see for destros is a dual pilot system, where a destro reaches its full battle strength if the gunner position is taken by a team pilot, who decides to spawn on you instead of in a ship. At least that would change them a lot in pvp. Still with single-piloting possible, but having some tail gunner who shoots close and medium ranges. And I can imagine, that would be hell of a funny thing to do.
exept if the guy who at the turret don’t know how to aim :))
13 hours ago, Mecronmancer said:
There are quite a few counters to destroyers, dude. Try some of these out. You don’t necessarily have to KILL one, but you can render one useless enough to the point where it contributes nearly nothing to the enemy team effort. Try some of these methods out. Don’t know if you know some of these already:
- Destroyers take 200% damage from explosions. This includes bubbles, kinetic supercharger, missiles, coil mortars, whatever you can think of to inflict explosive damage.
- ECM stuns work for twice the effective duration on a destroyer. For example - a 4 second diffuser will actually work for 8 seconds on a destroyer.
- A devastating method that we often employ in our squads is a bubble gunship with firestorm missiles. Two of those will make short work of any destroyer, no matter how tanky.
- If you fire a doomsday or EM torp or anomaly generator into a destroyer when its shields are down, you are almost guaranteed to take out a module.
- Speaking of modules, every time you destroy one you do pure damage. Aim for those specifically in your short range inties.
- And speaking of inties, a well-placed plasma arc will ravage a destroyer. I know you can play covops well, so ram that arc up a destroyer’s engine nacelle for best results.
All of this I agree with, I am in no way saying they cannot be beat (I didn t know the ecm stuns work twice as long. . . . does that go for white noise also ? . Heck made a video on how to beat them. However, if your a new player with almost any fighter coming up against a destroyer it will be like shooting a tank with a pistol.
1 hour ago, CinnamonFake said:
We’re not planing to implement big changes in destroyers’ ballance for now. Pilots had worked hard to manufacture those, it will be not a good way to nerf it so much. During current event, destroyers proved themselves in the game, like the special type of ships with it’s own gameplay. But small changes with destroyers are almost always welcome, and we did them from time to time in the updates ”)
OK, With all the great changes recently I m more than happy to live with destroyers. Just had to put the discussion out there.
2 hours ago, CinnamonFake said:
Pilots had worked hard to manufacture those, it will be not a good way to nerf it so much.
…
I have a problem with destros, i am sick of having these useless bricks in my team. Doesn’t matter how hard they worked for it, they STILL don’t know how to use it. There is always the random destro and lrf. they spawn together and die together. Ah and gravy hole is a pain, sad that such a broken mechanic got a permanent place in this game.
3 hours ago, g4borg said:
I have to say, one thing is indeed annoying, and thats the photon launcher on close range. Imho that weapon should - like the torp - have an activation time, and be less effective in close quarters.
Gravi has been patched around, still saying it needs a no-kill damage system, or some thought how you can have both “rapid fast small damage area weapons” without disrupting the beacon capturing meta. E.g. it could not disrupt capture, if you still got shields left, as it goes directly to hull
About the photon torp, ive heard its easy to “face-photon”, although it has been very hard to do it on my own due to high ping (i would require to lead like half screen to land the hit, or hit the small and fast moving lead circle). Adding like 1km for trigger radius activation seems fine to me (direct hit would trigger the explosion just like EM-torps). About gravity lens, all issue i see is beacon capture disruption (the idea of being able to cap with certain shield volume % sounds good), dmg and pull is ok.
3 hours ago, g4borg said:
finally, the best balance i see for destros is a dual pilot system, where a destro reaches its full battle strength if the gunner position is taken by a team pilot, who decides to spawn on you instead of in a ship. At least that would change them a lot in pvp. Still with single-piloting possible, but having some tail gunner who shoots close and medium ranges. And I can imagine, that would be hell of a funny thing to do.
Although i would love seing ships piloted by multiple players, i definately dont like this idea…specially considering how some teammates can be (if so, can we have an expel key? :D). Lets wait for battlecruisers and make those piloted by multiple players 