Destroyer & Cruiser concept (Co-op Ship)

Suggestions Balance
1

Destroyer & Cruiser Concept

This is a concept idea in how Destroyers and Cruisers could work in the game.
I’m using questions to answer how concept would work. I felt it was the best way to explain the concept than having a long reading that may be confusing.

Who could use a Destroyer or Cruiser**?**

Any player that reaches Tier 3 could purchase their first Destroyer. Cruisers could be purchase at a higher tier.
These ships are very hard to equip when first purchasing and may want to avoid arcade mode till finishing upgrades. But, will be alright to use in scenario mode.

(Ownership maybe has changed)

So I have a Destroyer that is full upgraded. Can I use it in Arcade mode?
The player can’t use the ship by themselves.  The player would need a 2nd officer or 3rd officer who is another players.

These officers control weapons on the hull of the ship and could give the player extra bonus too. Making the ship a “Co-op Ship”

 

Other players control weapons on the my ship?

Yes. But, these other players are your friends in the game. You could have random players join as a officer; if you trust them to help in battle?

This makes the ship a Co-op and working together to survive the battle.

 

So what do these officers do?

Each Destroyer and Cruiser have slots on the hull for weapons and buffs. The officers can setup what weapons they want to use and the buffs they want to add-on the ship. During battle these officers will control these weapons like a turret on a hull. These weapon turrets are useful in protecting, engaging attacks from other sides, and sighting the enemy.

 

Does this means the player that is controlling the ship, can’t fire weapons?

No, the player that is controlling the ship can fire weapons on the bow. But, the bow weapons are limited in types that could be equipped and not as powerful as the ones on the turret slots.

 

How turret weapons on the hull different from smaller ship weapons?

One, they are more powerful and take a lot of power.

Two, the turret may have a 360 around and up/down ranges of degrees. (Note: May be different on some types of ships.)

Three, officers need to watch power levels more often or the power in the ship could drain fast.

Four, new weapons that smaller ships can’t equip do to their size.

 

Does this means that Destroyers or Cruisers would be so powerful that they can’t be destroy?

No, If you weaken the shields to zero and then attack a turret. Then the attacking ship could destroy the turret on hull and killing the player who controls that area of the ship. Then it would be like attacking a frigate’s blind spot. But, it is unwise for a smaller solo ship to attack a Destroyers or Cruisers; More likely death for the smaller ship. Turrets can’t be replaced after destroyed and if the game mode has a respawn? That player in the turret has to respawn in a new ship. Making Destroyers or Cruisers a one time ship to control or all crew must be dead before a new one can respawn.

 

Can I pilot my Destroyer or Cruiser without recruiting officers.

Yes, in game modes where you fight AI enemies. But, the player gets normal turrets that only fires when having a target lock and in range of enemies.

This is maybe “No” now. It might have to be always co-op with another pilot.

 

If I play as a officer on a friend’s ship. How will this works?

Hopefully, a new menu could be created that the player could preset what turret they wish to use and other stuff like buffs.Then team up with their friend in any game mode. While on ship… The player would see the camera focus on their turret. Also displays will show information from the captain of the ship. Like his target lock and a lock that he wish you to attack. Also see the power levels, damage, etc. The player will have a new hull display for it’s turret hull HP. If that HP hits zero they will die.

 

Will players who are officers use my resources?

Yes and No. They can use your energy sources on the ship. But they can’t use ammo sources like missiles. If their turret uses ammo or is damage and need repair? They would have to use their own money.

 

Are Destroyers or Cruisers use for range attack only? So they are another sniper class ship?

Yes and No. It depends on their design and type of ship. Normally they are built for range attacks. But, having larger shield and better hull makes them a “tank defender”, “anti-fighter” or “same class destroyer”. Meaning you want them to defend a area than hiding behind asteroids where they can’t see. These ships want to lure the enemy to attack them; so they could blast them apart in clear view. Then they could be use to disable the shields of large ships then the fighters can attack the turrets and hull faster than them. 

 

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This is my concept idea so far…

Read careful… I might update the answers with new info.

If you have questions or ideas? I might add it to my list of questions with a answer.

I like to know what you think of the Destroyer & Cruiser Concept?

If you are part of the Dev Team? I hope you could use some of these ideas.

2

one problem, if u r going to have co op ships, there is going to be trolls who will just take up the spot of ur turret and not do anything or shooting randomly to waste ammunition & energy

3

one problem, if u r going to have co op ships, there is going to be trolls who will just take up the spot of ur turret and not do anything or shooting randomly to waste ammunition & energy

I answer that already. That why you use friends as first pick than random players. Also random players be wasting their own ammo.

4

No… Just no.

5

I’m not sure if this idea would be rewarding for players to do. “turret duty” on what will be a sluggish fortress ship will be the opposite of the fast paced, fluid game that most people enjoy. In addition, the “big mass of frigates camping on the bomb spawn” is already a problem on some maps. Why compound it? 

6

I’m not sure if this idea would be rewarding for players to do. “turret duty” on what will be a sluggish fortress ship will be the opposite of the fast paced, fluid game that most people enjoy. In addition, the “big mass of frigates camping on the bomb spawn” is already a problem on some maps. Why compound it? 

I think, disintegrators should not be on a destroyers or cruisers. Also, I don’t like a slower big ship being destroy by a disintegrator. So a balance defense from being destroy by them would be nice. I would not want every destroyer or cruiser to camp. Maybe some players would design them to be front-liners and other design them for range. I think they would have a hard time in popping up found asteroids then return behind in the first place. I also said the Pilot’s bow weapons are limited and weapons are best in side attacks than front only.

 

Also turret duty could be reward from other games that has a 2nd seat or gun.

7

sounds like how the corp dreadnaought battle will be.

 

 

Wait for that and see how it is.

8

sounds like how the corp dreadnaought battle will be.

 

 

Wait for that and see how it is.

I don’t want everything be corp only with co-op ships.

9

I think, disintegrators should not be on a destroyers or cruisers. Also, I don’t like a slower big ship being destroy by a disintegrator. So a balance defense from being destroy by them would be nice. I would not want every destroyer or cruiser to camp. Maybe some players would design them to be front-liners and other design them for range. I think they would have a hard time in popping up found asteroids then return behind in the first place. I also said the Pilot’s bow weapons are limited and weapons are best in side attacks than front only.

Also turret duty could be reward from other games that has a 2nd seat or gun.

What are bigger ships going to be for?

The fill roles of heavy fire support “frigate killers” (battle cruiesers), heavy raiding vessels (cruisers), interdiction “point defense” vessels (destroyers)

Are these roles well realized with current ship classes?

Yes. Putting the correct modules on the correct frigate will yield good cruisers, battle cruisers and destroyers.

If the roles are well realized under the current ship setup, why introduce a new ship?

Seems to me it’s only the desire to pilot a “bigger, badder” ship that can’t be taken down by small craft.

Are there any other roles that can be realized into the game?

Yes. Noncombatant “fleet support” vessels S.A. dreadnoughts, carriers, repair/rearm vessels, salvage vehicles and cargo haulers are yet to be put into the game. These tools can be great in new game modes and in “community warfare” scenarios.

Are these roles fitting for direct player control of a ship?

No. Because these vessels are largely noncombatant. Carriers fight by Proxy (I.E. the small craft do their job for them) and dreadnoughts carry mostly heavy guns unsuitable for small-craft destruction.

If these roles are not good for direct player control, can they still be put into the game?

Yes. The ship can be controlled through AI (NPC ship) and the players can tell the ships where to go and what to do (see miners in allegiance). Turrets can fire on designated targets or on automatically selected target.

Is being a secondary pilot on a big ship going to be fun?

No. Because you will get limited control over what the ship does and where it goes. Pressing the odd module and watching the map is not a rewarding way to be playing a fast paced, dog-fighting oriented combat game.

@Rasseru:

you ask a lot of question about how it will look like and how it will play out. You fail to ask what will it do, and if what it will do is something that adds to the game.

The roles you envision for bigger ships is already taken by frigates. Introducing a bigger vessel to be put on the same role is redundant. It will also detract from the game because it will put players in boring roles and will prevent “small craft” players from feeling they have an influence on the game (because pelting a 24k shield + 400 regen frigate with two rapid fire plasmas is a time consuming, tedious task, so think what it will be like on a really big ship and not just an ire deus).

10

you ask a lot of question about how it will look like and how it will play out. You fail to ask what will it do, and if what it will do is something that adds to the game.

The roles you envision for bigger ships is already taken by frigates. Introducing a bigger vessel to be put on the same role is redundant. It will also detract from the game because it will put players in boring roles and will prevent “small craft” players from feeling they have an influence on the game (because pelting a 24k shield + 400 regen frigate with two rapid fire plasmas is a time consuming, tedious task, so think what it will be like on a really big ship and not just an ire deus).

I just have a concept. I’m not here to tell you that it should be this way and no other way… I’m not craving it into law on a stone. It is the Devs Team’s job to do that.

 

Some people think suggestions should be done their way and has to be by their law or else. Sounds like a threat to me.

Then others think, I’m talking about capital ships and are afraid that those ships will owned every one in battle. Clearly I added what the weakness might be… That you have to work with other pilots. That is a big turn off for some players. Then I think some people hate the idea of having any teamwork in the game because they like being loners. I don’t like pilots who are self-center and want to feel like Gods. Having Co-op ships makes heroes and everyone on the crew gets equal credit. Not fancy like a corp would be like. But, a group of friends would be proud.

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Some people think suggestions should be done their way and has to be by their law or else. Sounds like a threat to me.

Then others think, I’m talking about capital ships and are afraid that those ships will owned every one in battle. Clearly I added what the weakness might be… That you have to work with other pilots. That is a big turn off for some players. Then I think some people hate the idea of having any teamwork in the game because they like being loners. I don’t like pilots who are self-center and want to feel like Gods. Having Co-op ships makes heroes and everyone on the crew gets equal credit. Not fancy like a corp would be like. But, a group of friends would be proud.

 

You’ve presented your case in the form of a Q&A. Problem is, your Q&A didn’t include important core questions S.A:

 

Why is this a “cool” thing to have?

Are the function that your idea brings to the table already implemented in the game?

Is your idea capable of a new way of playing into the game?

Is this new way going to be fun and exciting?

Are players going to enjoy this? Why? 

Is this a good idea?

 

I don’t see that you’ve answered any of those questions; and I don’t see how you can make a case for any change in the game without tackling those questions. I’m not trying to threaten you or telling you the game should be the way I think it should be. I’m trying to tell you that I don’t think your idea has merit because the answers to these core questions are unsatisfactory. 

 

There’s no need to discuss the mechanics of how to place one player as a gunner for another player’s ship or how these ships will be managed from a hangar perspective, if these ships are not adding anything significant and fun to the game. First, show that your idea is good. Then show us the roadmap for implementing it and how you think it should be fleshed out. 

 

I just have a concept. I’m not here to tell you that it should be this way and no other way… I’m not craving it into law on a stone. It is the Devs Team’s job to do that.

 

Biggest questions out there, and you havn’t answered them: Why is your concept cool? What makes it cool? Where is the fun in being a turret gunner going to come from? 

12

You’ve presented your case in the form of a Q&A. Problem is, your Q&A didn’t include important core questions S.A:

 

Why is this a “cool” thing to have?

Are the function that your idea brings to the table already implemented in the game?

Is your idea capable of a new way of playing into the game?

Is this new way going to be fun and exciting?

Are players going to enjoy this? Why? 

Is this a good idea?

 

I don’t see that you’ve answered any of those questions; and I don’t see how you can make a case for any change in the game without tackling those questions. I’m not trying to threaten you or telling you the game should be the way I think it should be. I’m trying to tell you that I don’t think your idea has merit because the answers to these core questions are unsatisfactory. 

 

There’s no need to discuss the mechanics of how to place one player as a gunner for another player’s ship or how these ships will be managed from a hangar perspective, if these ships are not adding anything significant and fun to the game. First, show that your idea is good. Then show us the roadmap for implementing it and how you think it should be fleshed out. 

 

 

Biggest questions out there, and you havn’t answered them: Why is your concept cool? What makes it cool? Where is the fun in being a turret gunner going to come from? 

I could think over your questions and give some answers to them.

13

I don’t want everything be corp only with co-op ships.

never said everything should be Corp only, But enhanced teamplay is kinda a corp thing, not for pugs.

14

It is not planned to add bigger ships for single players.

Corps will be able to produce Dreadnoughts in the future.

15

It is not planned to add bigger ships for single players.

Corps will be able to produce Dreadnoughts in the future.

I’m glad this is true. So this means co-op for bigger ships. :slight_smile:

 

I just like to see something in-between. Where a group of friends or trusted players could control a destroyer or cruiser than joining a corp. to control a bigger ship.

Also Dreadnoughts are bigger than destroyers and cruisers. So why not have something smaller to train in for big corps ships?