cloaks are hackable - engine trails

Game Discussion Game Modes & Maps Discussions
1

TLDR; captains being able to see cloaked units is a broken mechanic

 

so, just ran into this obvious hack. imagine this scenario:

 

you activate chamelon cloak, travel some 9km (using afterburner obviously), below their spawn and around a massive wall.

 

2 secs left on cloak, but you’re being shot right as you go around the wall.

 

the target is a lone engineer captain 3km out. you haven’t yet locked onto him or decloaked.

 

what is wrong with this picture?

 

well, for one, there is no micro-locator to be seen… or even within range for that matter. furthermore, your vector of approach would have to have been predicted, and the wall is massive, too large to cover.

 

you then proceed to tackle and attack the target, closing to within 500m behind him, having travelled over 3.5km. still no micro-locators to be seen, just the captain…

 

then another tackler shows up from his spawn to finish you off, leaving the captain at 50% hull.

 

normally, there is no way the captain would have survived had he not seen me coming.

 

how is that, you ask?

 

it’s simple really… the game engine reports engine trail locations when an ally is in range.

 

since i travelled below their spawn, in range of his allies, my engine trail was reported to the captain, who used that information to shoot me right as i came around the wall at 3km out, cloaked…

 

nice hacks, problem solved?

 

hey, want to fix? stop reporting client and engine trails if your ship does not take any damage for 5 consecutive seconds in cloak.

 

this is assuming you don’t report client locations when units are out of range… if you report all client locations then this is inevitable and undetectable.

 

this is still exploitable, even though it may not have been in this case.

 

i mean engine trails being reported… hackable…

2

protip: engineers have 2.5km sensor range

 

however, when i’m commander, i don’t seem to have this magic ability you speak of.

 

furthermore, if that were the case then it would broken, since it removes half the tactics in a combat recon game.

 

furthermore, they can’t see through walls…

3

Yeah beta trash in combat recon both commanders can see everyone on the map, including invisibles.  They are not targetable but you know where they are with a little circle around them.  Thats why good commanders take long range weapons to pick people out of their cloaks before they get close, and also spamming in the enemy’s general direction will alert your team of their presence even if they can’t see them yet.

4

Yeah beta trash in combat recon both commanders can see everyone on the map, including invisibles.  They are not targetable but you know where they are with a little circle around them.  Thats why good commanders take long range weapons to pick people out of their cloaks before they get close, and also spamming in the enemy’s general direction will alert your team of their presence even if they can’t see them yet.

 

well, i’ve only been captain twice, and i didn’t notice anything like that. maybe people just weren’t using cloaks.

 

in any case, then this brings up another good discussion.

 

this is another broken mechanic…

 

captains should never be able to see everyone. it takes half the strategy out of combat recon…

 

whoever though that was a good idea?

 

here: abuse this… use a recon… keep out of their range… brilliant!.. someone warps to you… warp into a pack of your teammates!..

 

must i find more things you can abuse?

5

As captain in the beginning of the game you should have noticed you can see all the enemies despite the fact that you start so far away.  It isn’t as noticable as the battle gets going because at least one person on your team will have vision on each person on the other team most of the times.  This feature is very important to combat recon as it is the only defense a commander gets against a covert ops death squad rush where they come from waaaaay up or reall far down and slip past your team’s vision. 

6

Guys keep it friendly and no discussion in the bug forum!

7

So this is a stealth nerf-recon thread then?

Anyway, it is not broken, could you imagine getting hit by 3 invisible cov-ops out of no where? Anyway, working as intended, don’t change what isn’t broken.

8

also, off-topic, but along the lines of tactics abused in combat recon: a team will move back 5-10km behind their spawn and just camp… they wont even send a single unit to attack…

 

forcing you either to just sit there and do nothing the entire game (well, obviously some people will leroy into the mob, can’t help that)… or overextend your entire team, leaving your captain open to attack by a small squad.

 

this leads to very long and boring 1-sided games.

 

not even sure how to fix a situation like that, besides making the captain the spawn point.

 

but that is problematic with the current way spawning works (you warp in) instead of appearing…

9

This feature is very important to combat recon as it is the only defense a commander gets against a covert ops death squad rush where they come from waaaaay up or reall far down and slip past your team’s vision. 

 

no it isn’t… recons should be used for this… or any inty… spread out and cover your flanks… and spot them and call them out for your team…

 

if your entire team rushes into some… battle in the center of the map they imagined would take place, that’s their problem… happens sometimes…

 

 

Anyway, it is not broken, could you imagine getting hit by 3 invisible cov-ops out of no where? Anyway, working as intended, don’t change what isn’t broken.

 

if you’re getting hit out of nowhere then A. your team sucks, B. your guard/engi sucks, C. you chose the wrong unit to be captain and in fact it might be you, not your team…

 

you want to be captain? abuse covert ops or recon… or better yet… ecm… that’s how you’d prevent a covert rush… not by sitting in an engi with your x-ray vision easy-button goggles…

10

I won’t bother discussing this further here, open a new thread.  But I will say Combat recon is one of the few modes I think was actually done really well and balanced, so you won’t get much support from me.

11

I won’t bother discussing this further here, open a new thread.  But I will say Combat recon is one of the few modes I think was actually done really well and balanced, so you won’t get much support from me.

 

sitting 10km behind your spawn in your own base is balanced? ;\

 

or you mean boring?

 

last time this happened i went 10-4 k-a, the rest of my team went 0-1 or 1-0…

 

i just trolled all day in front of their base in a covert, pulling 1-2 units out at a time… actually got a fear me…

12

As for the “bug” issue.  Ship trails is ok.  If you hit them the cloak disappears.  The bad part is you don’t know if you’ve lost it, at least with adaptive camo.  One thing you may not have considered, there’s a sentry drone near the captain so he can expect the interceptor coming to attack.

 

The “bug” issue is separate.  Combat drones ignore cloaks, engineers and beacons.

13

you have to select a target to launch a drone. no drones there anyways.

 

there is no ‘bug’… it’s an exploit (engine trails being reported). can be hacked basically to provide your location.

 

as for captains being able to see all units, great… lets fly 10km behind our spawn so we get 20+km warning…

 

let’s not have to consider covert rushes so we can just fly in a frigball and camp all game…

 

that’s basically what it’s doing to the game mode.

14

you have to select a target to launch a drone. no drones there anyways.

 

there is no ‘bug’… it’s an exploit (engine trails being reported). can be hacked basically to provide your location.

 

as for captains being able to see all units, great… lets fly 10km behind our spawn so we get 20+km warning…

 

let’s not have to consider covert rushes so we can just fly in a frigball and camp all game…

 

that’s basically what it’s doing to the game mode.

If you think that a frigball that holds back works in CR…no…just no…

15

If you think that a frigball that holds back works in CR…no…just no…

 

sure it does if the commander is a ecm.

 

also: back to the commander x-ray vision problem.

 

you see, it encourages balls. instead of people spreading 5km out from the captain to recon, they hug him like flies to a pile of… well… i don’t want to get that graphic…

 

although i see where it could be a problem with really crappy teams.

 

so, it wouldn’t be a problem to give commanders visibility within 5km. otherwise they can see LRFs trying to snipe them, etc… how lame is that?

 

on top of being able to see units that are flanking them and point them out…

 

i can just imagine the conversation on teamspeak:

 

commander - “hey guys, they have 3 ships on the left flank… hmmm… send the entire fleet”…

 

or actually, if you make it 10km visibility for the commander, that should be sufficient.

 

provides enough warning, but also provides a large enough window of opportunity.

 

the captain shouldnt be an omniscient being…

 

then all sorts of things can be abused like warping recons that continuously maintain their distance. captain that sit back, forcing you to travel 20-30km, etc… they use it as advance warning.

 

if you put them in the dark a bit, they won’t be able to sit way back in their spawns any more.

 

and dont let them see radar sigs/units though rocks either. clear line of sight, 10km only.

 

that way you actually need to recon, you can’t just camp 10km behind you spawn and some god-forsaken rock…

16

Captain seeing all is fine. He cannot highlight anything, which is not in a real visibility range, so it really depends on communication at that point. Ships still have to spread out to give each other vision.

 

The idea to cloak and kill the captain is simply a scenario, which you cannot pull every day.

 

Camping behind means the enemy team can take your spawn location, by the way. Good luck if that happens.

17

I’ve been captain and tried to “Eyes on” targets without effect.  They don’t see all.  Frigballs are half meanlingless, since the best captains are interceptors oddly enough.  Frigates make good targets.

 

Seeing and engine trail I do not see as a bug, but an intent.  Turn off your engine and afterburns and you can still turn to hopefully drift out of fire and be free.  It’s not a guaranteed cloak, and it shouldn’t be.  That blue/red line is hidden but valuable.

 

As you said, the captain was an engineer.  As I said, combat drones from engineers and beacons do not see the cloak.  If you’re reporting a bug, it’s that the combat drones ignore the cloak, not that engine trails are visible.  Manually targeting after a cloak requires skill and should not be eliminated.  Drones targeting ignoring a cloak I feel can be a problem.

18

i can just imagine the conversation on teamspeak:

 

commander - “hey guys, they have 3 ships on the left flank… hmmm… send the entire fleet”…

 

That’s completely inaccurate.

19

Here’s the simplest UBER PRO TIP that works EVERY TIME , in EVERY GAME , and it will NEVER MAKE YOU LOOK STUPID : use the goddamned team vision , calculate your team’s / enemy’s intentions and PAY ATTENTION to them (yea, paying attention is important and i’m throwing it in your face even if it’s obvious, because people always tend to ignore the obvious - over 50% of caps die because of it). It will double (or more) your performances whoever you are - the ultimate team’s n00b or the ultimate solo killer.

 

PS: A little extra on mechanics

There are 2 types of hiding modules - cloaks and radar stealth.

Cloaks (recons and tacklers) make your ship invisible to the radar and hide your ship from view. What gives you out to the enemy are: your own ship’s noise (yea, i can hear you and i use that to shoot after you in cloak), locking the enemy which makes them aware of someone’s presence, recon modules and finally the captains in combat recon who can see anything, yet they cannot lock you for a lead indicator or use ‘eyes on target’.

Radar stealth (cov ops and snipers) only hide your ship from radars and lock ons unless a recon debuffs you, so phisically you are still visible - ship hull and engine trails. Locking someone also gives you away. Snipers are also given away by the aiming laser or long persisting torpedo trail.

 

PS 2: How to make a good captain out of yourself

  • Shoot towards incoming enemies that weren’t spotted by teammates.

- DODGE!!! Your job is to stay alive, not being <insert hero name here> and fighting the whole pack of incoming enemies that specifically FF and debuff you. Only fight back if he’s solo or you are ABSOLUTELY SURE you can kill him and stay alive.

  • Stay with your team. If they’re too dumb to protect you, stay with them and call targets frantically (nothing uber to say here tbh, mostly team’s fault…).

- PAY ATTENTION TO THE FIELD!!! I can’t even count the amount of captains i’ve seen not looking around themselves, getting hit by surprise recon suicide warps from the sides of the map or other ships too late to be spotted by other teammates. Look in all directions, not only towards their spawn. You have the arrows near your HUD there for a reason.

  • If you decide to type stuff, get in a safe place first, out of long range reach.
20

sure it does if the commander is a ecm.

 

also: back to the commander x-ray vision problem.

 

you see, it encourages balls. instead of people spreading 5km out from the captain to recon, they hug him like flies to a pile of… well… i don’t want to get that graphic…

 

on top of being able to see units that are flanking them and point them out…

 

i can just imagine the conversation on teamspeak:

 

commander - “hey guys, they have 3 ships on the left flank… hmmm… send the entire fleet”…

 

the captain shouldnt be an omniscient being…

 

then all sorts of things can be abused like warping recons that continuously maintain their distance. captain that sit back, forcing you to travel 20-30km, etc… they use it as advance warning.

 

and dont let them see radar sigs/units though rocks either. clear line of sight, 10km only.

 

that way you actually need to recon, you can’t just camp 10km behind you spawn and some god-forsaken rock…

The Captain should always be an ECM, nowadays, they are incredibly resilient ships. Especially when surrounded by friendlies.

 

It really doesn’t encourage any balls. The rare times I’m Captain, I always fly my ECM between the front line and the Frig line. If I get caught somewhere inbetween, just use the MFG to save yourself while your team mates handle the attackers. It’s not rocket science. It makes sense the captain has 75% extra damage and can see everything in the map. You still can’t target cloacked ships or ships that are out of everyone’s radar range, so I still don’t see the problem with this. You still have absolutely no advantage over the other team because they get the same treatment. It’s how you choose to interpert the info on your screen that makes you a good coordinator in these games. It’s how you choose to fly, hide from enemy fire and lure the enemy out that makes you a good Captain. Just because you see someone on the radar doesn’t mean your team will do well in the match. Just because you don’t know how to play in Combat Recon, doesn’t mean everyone else can’t. Stop thinking you’re the centre of the freaking universe and man up. Admit you’re wrong. Stop acting like a damned baby and just admit you don’t know enough about the game to even complain about anything, as you have so callously been doing.

 

You’re complaining about Recons jumping away? Those are the easiest to kill. ECM Captains are the hardest ones to kill.

 

 

there is no ‘bug’… it’s an exploit (engine trails being reported). can be hacked basically to provide your location.

You can do this outside of Recon, as well. You just need to, yanno… actually LOOK at a certain area and observe engine glows and their trails. It’s not rocket science, it doesn’t even require you to zoom in, just stare for a second and voila “2 enemies, far left”.