Change To The 'Special module: Raid Phase Shield' on the Guard Frigates.

Ships
41

 

Perhaps if you looked at the guide, you’d know how to calculate EHP?

 

Let me do it for you. With a volume of 22000 and resist of 110, what does 30 extra resistance do?

Hidden text for Math that takes up space! :

Well, first, let’s see how much damage it can take without the 30 resist. Let x be a number that represents the amount of damage one full shield can take before going down.

 

x * (1 - .5238) = 22000

x = 46199

 

Now let’s do the same calculation with the extra 30 resistance! Let’s use y this time, because I am a stickler for semantics.

 

y * (1 - .5833) = 22000

y = 52796

 

Now let’s look at the difference between the two!

 

y - x = 52796 - 46199 = 6597

So, bottom line from the derivation: The 30 resistance gives just about 6600 extra EHP, which is pretty far from 1309.

 

A note about regeneration: Resistance affects regeneration, turning it into EHP/sec in the same way it turns volume into EHP. Therefore, a shield booster on a ship with 30 more resistance gives 30% more EHP per charge, so stop trying to pretend it makes stuff look better for your regen builds, Wolf.

 

 

The thing is, I only truly know basic math. That’s just math that doesn’t make any sense to me since it doesn’t show me anything of substance. EHP? what’s that?

In any case, if the 30 points is as good as you say, than the regeneration on top of that makes it all the better anyways. 

I imagine that EHP is just volume without resists, while the resists simply multiply that EHP theoretically. 

22,000 x 2 = 44,000 is a 50% resist calculation and so on and so forth. Please emphasize further. 

Furthermore, if EHP is simply the base pool without resists, than the Regeneration is worth all the more when converted to EHP and then multiplied by the resists’s percentage of dampening enemy damage. 

 

I can do y * x math, but you need to show me what the heck they are first. This isn’t a test where I have to find their meanings, after all. I simply don’t see the key, as of yet.

Tell me, so I can actually calculate the darn thing. 

 

If I’m reading that math right, the difference is simply how much defense is had in one instant, rather than over time. 

at 300 shield regeneration per second multiplied by 2 at the lowest = 600 EHP per second. to reach that low amount of 6597 EHP points, one only needs 11 seconds. Of which in normal battle, I have that much and more. 

 

In other words, you’re missing two key items in those equations of yours. Time, and Regeneration per second.

 

Aside from that, I’m pretty sure that we’re looking at different numbers in our equations. 

42

[http://forum.star-conflict.com/index.php?/topic/24645-a-guide-to-resistances/](< base_url >/index.php?/topic/24645-a-guide-to-resistances/)

43

In all seriousness, add time and regeneration per second to the equations. 

44

The thing is, I only truly know basic math. That’s just math that doesn’t make any sense to me since it doesn’t show me anything of substance. EHP? what’s that?

In any case, if the 30 points is as good as you say, than the regeneration on top of that makes it all the better anyways. 

I imagine that EHP is just volume without resists, while the resists simply multiply that EHP theoretically. 

22,000 x 2 = 44,000 is a 50% resist calculation and so on and so forth. Please emphasize further. 

Furthermore, if EHP is simply the base pool without resists, than the Regeneration is worth all the more when converted to EHP and then multiplied by the resists’s percentage of dampening enemy damage. 

 

I can do y * x math, but you need to show me what the heck they are first. This isn’t a test where I have to find their meanings, after all. I simply don’t see the key, as of yet.

Tell me, so I can actually calculate the darn thing. 

 

If I’m reading that math right, the difference is simply how much defense is had in one instant, rather than over time. 

at 300 shield regeneration per second multiplied by 2 at the lowest = 600 EHP per second. to reach that low amount of 6597 EHP points, one only needs 11 seconds. Of which in normal battle, I have that much and more. 

 

In other words, you’re missing two key items in those equations of yours. Time, and Regeneration per second.

 

Aside from that, I’m pretty sure that we’re looking at different numbers in our equations.

Here, I spent three seconds coming up with the search term “define EHP” and looked at the first result: http://acronyms.thefreedictionary.com/EHP

Alternatively, here’s a nifty link for you: http://lmgtfy.com/?q=define+EHP

 

And here’s my calculation involving regen, assuming base values 150 regen and 100 resist (because 150 regen is the base value which all mods use, and 100 is a nice number)

 

Remember we’re comparing what a 150 resist phase shield (current) would be vs. a 120 resist + 50% regen phase shield, not a bare, unlevelled Inquisitor S vs. a fully kitted out one.

 

With +30 resist:

150 * (1 + 130/100) = 345 EHP/sec regen

 

With +50% regen:

(150 * 1.5) * (1 + 100/100) = 450 EHP/sec regen

 

Difference is 450 - 345 = 105 EHP/sec regen

Dividing 6600 by 105 gives approximately 63 seconds to overtake. Assuming that the regen bonus is active for that entire time, of course. Good luck surviving 63 seconds of sustained fire.

 

Edit: Double posting is bad, so I’m adding a tad to the end, here.

 

I can do y * x math, but you need to show me what the heck they are first. This isn’t a test where I have to find their meanings, after all. I simply don’t see the key, as of yet.

Tell me, so I can actually calculate the darn thing.

 

Well, first, let’s see how much damage it can take without the 30 resist. Let x be a number that represents the amount of damage one full shield can take before going down.

 

[…]

 

Now let’s do the same calculation with the extra 30 resistance! Let’s use y this time , because I am a stickler for semantics.

And, tacking on further, if you don’t know how this:

x * (1 - .5238) = 22000

x = 46199

follows from this:

 

I say this because using a special module that gives 120 defense points will bring the anti EM damage to 110 points, which is a 52.38% reduction, while

the +30 points would only bring it to a 58.33% reduction

Then you’re a lost cause.

45

When I said 300 shield regeneration per second, I meant 300, not 150. 

That being said, thanks for adding in time and regeneration.

Now you just need to add in the shield booster L, Emergency shield, and one of three other modules (signature masking, multiphase shield adapter, or the spectre field)

900+ EHP per second on the base shield regen. 

46

When I said 300 shield regeneration per second, I meant 300, not 150.

 

And here’s my calculation involving regen, assuming base values 150 regen and 100 resist (because 150 regen is the base value which all mods use, and 100 is a nice number)

 

Remember we’re comparing what a 150 resist phase shield (current) would be vs. a 120 resist + 50% regen phase shield, not a bare, unlevelled Inquisitor S vs. a fully kitted out one.

 

 

 

Now you just need to add in the shield booster L, Emergency shield, and one of three other modules (signature masking, multiphase shield adapter, or the spectre field)

900+ EHP per second on the base shield regen.

A note about regeneration: Resistance affects regeneration, turning it into EHP/sec in the same way it turns volume into EHP. Therefore, a shield booster on a ship with 30 more resistance gives 30% more EHP per charge, so stop trying to pretend it makes stuff look better for your regen builds, Wolf.

47

Here’s one simple equation of adding resists to the shield and turning those resists into pure volume : 7425 x 2 from one shield booster L.

Now, what’s 8.33% more look like? 14852 x 0.0833 = 1237.1716

1237.1716. + 14852 = 16089.1717

Now what’s the Emergency shield boost look like?

17804 x 2 = 35608

35608 x 0.0833 = 2966.1464

35608 + 2966.1464 = 38504.1464

Now for the base shield: 28270 x 2 = 56540

56540 x 0.0833 = 4709.782

56540 + 4709.782 = 61249.782

 

Let’s say we let the shield regenerate for 20 seconds

300 x 20 x 2 = 12000

12000 x 0.083 = 999.6

12000 + 999.6 = 12999.6

 

 

Now we simply add them together with and without an 8.33% increase.

14852 + 35608 + 56540 + 12000 = 119,000 Without.

16089.1717 + 38504.1464 + 61249.782 + 12999.6 = 128,842.7001 with.

 

now to add 2.38% to the one without to gain its actual number 

119,000 x 0.0238 = 2832.2

119,000 + 2832.2 = 121,832.2

 

Now we can check the actual difference without adding in the Ronin’s extra 30% secret project auto resist function to both numbers.

128,842.7001 - 121,832.2 = 7,010.5001.

 

In other words, having 30 (140) more resists is not a 30% gain from 52.38% resists. (110)

 

 

 

 

 

It really isn’t much more shield than without the extra 30+ Hardly 30%, since this is the basic shield value multiplied by 2 and added with the rest of the percentage of 2.38% to cancel out resists and turn it into pure shield volume equations. 

Of course, this is all assuming that the enemy is just firing EM weapons. The real game is a tad bit more complex than straight numbers.

You only gain a little over 7000 shield volume over 121,832.2. Definitely not 30%.

When enemy DPS is too high, use the multiphase shield adapter, and both equations will rocket to higher levels. 

Now, if we add a 25% shield regeneration buff to the 120 special module the 20 seconds of regeneration will then be worth 14742.72 volume which is about the same volume as a shield booster L with less charge time. 

Now to replace the old shield booster number with the new one in the equation:

14742.72 + 14852 + 35608 + 56540 = 124,640.196736

128,842.7001 - 124,640.196736 =  4,202.503364. Only that much of a difference, and you get to regenerate that small amount pretty quickly by simply retreating or seeing an enemy retreat and then returning to battle after only 12 seconds, thus you’ll be gaining that much and more by playing right. 

 

Feel free to punch in these raw numbers yourself. 

48

You think false.

+x resist result in +x% EHP

Every resistpoint give the same EHP as every other point before/after.

This is an absolut increase, not a relative one(as you seem to think).

Second you forgot to factor in the resistance in your shieldregen. Especially with the added shieldregenboni from other things(modules/implants).

The problem you looking for require multistage maths, as volume, resist and regen factor all in a way into the others.

We can calculate the other way around:

1000 dps vs. 300 regen/s

With 0 resist: → -700

With 30 resist: -770 +300 → -470

With 60 resist: -625 +300 → -325

If we compare the numbers -470 to -700 it’s only 67.1%.

If we compare the numbers -325 to -470 it’s only 69.1%.

Everytime ~30% decrease in damage for the attacker.

To make it short: You are false and right at the same time. Due the nature of the interaction of all the things(regen, volume, resist and dps) it’s unclear to say what is now superior to each other WITHOUT making a specific situation example.

While your suggestion SEEM a buff for YOU, it’s for other builds a NERF.

So I’m against this suggestion. If you had suggested it to the +120 resist + AnotherThingieWithNoRealUsefulness choice, then I had given it a +, but so… nope.

49

I don’t like agreeing with Katovsky but he’s right this time. Having a couple qualifications in maths means that I do understand resist calculations when I read them some time ago. Even though they do appear to provide more value per point at low values, they do actually reduce damage in a linear fashion.

 

Personally I do not use frigates at all, but this would definitely be a nerf to the Ronin. I don’t mind this exactly, but we’re going to have destroyers soon so special project frigates need to be as strong as possible to retain any place on the battlefield when compared to the incoming R14 destroyers.

 

Frankly, being able to boost an individual resist up to 300 or even more is actually incredible (I suppose EM tanking would be most appropriate given the widespread use of EM weapons in all classes). I already get giddy when I watch my shield bar in an interceptor when im getting shot at with multiphase adaptor on.

 

But hey, if they want to go with your other idea of Raid Phase Shield increasing resist from +150 to +200, Im game.

Maybe they will stand a chance close up against destroyers… well, that would be true if gravitational lens wasn’t a thing.

50

Here’s one simple equation of adding resists to the shield and turning those resists into pure volume : 7425 x 2 from one shield booster L.

Now, what’s 8.33% more look like? 14852 x 0.0833 = 1237.1716

1237.1716. + 14852 = 16089.1717

I really have no idea what you’re trying to do. You do know that the percentages you see in the damage reduction column mean damage reduction, and not EHP multiplier, right? So if you have 200 resist (66.7% damage reduction) and 10k shields, you have:

 

10k * (1 + 200/100) = 30k EHP

 

Not the same things as:

 

10k * 1.67 = 16.7k EHP

 

Which wouldn’t make sense anyways, since 100 resist gives you a 2x multiplier to EHP, leading to 20k EHP at the least.

 

edit: Looking at the above numbers, they’re only off by a factor of two, or three if you’re looking at the actual bonus values. Which makes it really incredible how you managed to get numbers off by a factor of five, essentially doubling the error, even though you’re working with smaller values.

51

What I was going for is a base 50% damage reduction, (100 resists) thus multiplying an amount of shield’s worth by 2, which when multiplied turns into base shield volume. That’s the system I’ve been using for a long while to calculate my gains. So, Volume is different from EHP?

52

What your equations have done is multiplied the health by two and then added an arbitrary percentage on top of that. It’s not even self consistent, dude.

53

It is consistent, what are you talking about?

I simply start with 50% because that’s an easy percentage to multiply before adding anything else.

The missing percentage I add on top of it, but it’s actually supposed to be able to be done in just one equation. 

It’s consistent, but it’s also the long-form.

Here’s a step by step manual of the method. 

 

Take a shield volume of 26,000. That’s all it is, 26,000 shield volume. Now, add 100 resists, 50% damage deduction to enemy fire, so now you multiply the original volume by 2. The volume is now worth 52,000 shield. Now, let’s say you want to get 5% more resistance to damage. No, I’m not talking about more resist points, though that’s what you need, I’m talking about the original percentage of damage reduction, which is actually 55%, not 50%, able to be blocked by the shield before the enemy is able to damage the shield itself. We multiply the new shield volume of 52,000 shield by 0.05 for 5% of the number, which is 2600 volume worth. Now we add them together to get the true worth of the shield at 55% total damage reduction, which is 54,600 shield volume now without resists (the resists are used to show how much volume the shield is now worth) How do we know that it’s really the right number? well, what’s 5% of the original number of 26000? 1300. Now multiply that by 2, and it becomes 2600. Thus this is an accurate way to show how much your shield is worth with resists by converting it to total volume.

 

Now, if you have a 75% enemy damage reduction, that’s the original number of 26000 volume multiplied by four, which is 104,000.

At this level you can simply add all of your shield pool and regen mods and base regen together and multiply it by 4 to easily get the total worth of the shield in volume which is 228,916.

 

You can also use this to see how long it takes an enemy to get through your pool.

Let’s say an enemy has 10k damage per second. After you calculate how much volume you actually have, simply divide your total number by 10k.

With 228,916 volume divided by 10k, we can see that it would take 22.8 seconds to finally get through the shield. 

Now, at 10k damage vs a simple 50% reduction to 114,458 shield volume total worth, It’ll take 11.4 seconds of constant fire.

 

In all seriousness, the only parts of these equations I know are correct are the 50% and 75% points in damage reduction being x2 and x4 the original shield volume. How to actually find the other points between them is iffy for me, since I am still working out the kinks. I’m attempting to find the right numbers, but the procedure is alluding me. For instance, I have 26000 shield, 50% is 52,000 shield, but actually finding that extra 5% is a little weird since adding 25% doesn’t add up to the x4 rule of the 75% reduction, so it may or many not be arbitrary, but I know it’s close in how the procedure is supposed to be done. Any ideas on this little puzzle? I know that there’s something I’m just not considering, but where is it…

54

Wolf, why are you refusing to use correct formulas?

Statue gave you formulas that this game uses, same formulas can be found in the resistance guide, why are you trying to invent a bicycle without even having good grasp on a basic math? Your formulas a wrong, period, your explanations are not gonna make them right. If you cant use formulas, use the spread sheets i attached to the guide, here is the link again

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Vj1crltujP-8n9DkGtUMOeJaQQ_OWmoQXpgldlRipJc/edit#gid=1967023375

 

all you have to do is input resistances and HP values (and ship size), it will calculate all the EHPs for you.

 

As i told you years ago, you have wrong basis for your calculations - aka formulas are totally fucked, instead of building a sand castle on air ballons, get your math straight. 

55

Because I know there is a simpler way to calculate it in the form of shield/hull volume. I only have half the puzzle, unfortunately.

It’s gonna bug me until I figure it out, it seems.  

56

Here is how it looks from the side:

 

WolfKhan: " Guy i gotta calculate 3x3"

Forum: “3x3 =9, because 3+3+3”

WolfKhan : “Nah, I ain’t using this stinking method of yours, i am sure there is better way and by my calculations 3x3 is -8756.23454, but I might be off, a little” 

57

haha. Like I said, the only thing in these equations I know are 100% right are 26000 x 2 = 52000 which is a 50% reduction with 100 resist points. 

Like-wise 75% is a x4 reduction. How enemy damage is calculated using volume, and so on. The only part I don’t know how to calculate is adding or taking away further percentage and converting it into volume. 

58

It is easy - you use the formula. put it into a spreadsheet and all you have to do is give it a HP and resistance value.

 

And as i said befor:

each 1 resistance point increases your EHP by 1% from base HP, it does not get simpler than this

 

so 10 resistance is 10% increase 

100 resists is 100% increase

400 resists is 400% increase

59

Hahahahaha, you know what? I’ve been looking at the wrong graph for 2 years… been calculating my resists using the damage rating table… *Facepalm*

That thing goes in the opposite direction at a slightly different rate >.,> I might as well facepalm again since even this realization might be wrong in thinking that it’s wrong x.x sigh…

 

At this point, I’m just tired…

60

Well, here’s a start.

 

26000 x 2 = 52000. 100 resists

25 resists = base volume divided by 4.

+25 resists = 6500

0r = 26000

25r = 32500

50r = 39000

75r = 45000

100r = 52000

125r = 58500

150r = 65000

175r = 71500

200r = 78000 

225r = 84500

250r = 91000

275r = 97500

300r = 104000

400r = 130000

500r = 156000

 

 

 

57229 / 4 = 14307.25

25r = 71536.25

50r = 85843.5

75r = 100150.75

100r = 114458

125r = 128765.25

150r = 143072.5

175r = 157379.75

200r = 171687

225r = 185994.25

250r = 200301.5

275r = 214608.75

300r = 228916

400r = 286145

500r = 343374

 

So at 150 anti EM resists, a ship with 26k shield, the shield booster L, the emergency shield boost, and 20 seconds (6k) of 300 p/s base shield regeneration will have a total of 143072.5 shield volume. 

To find the value of a single batch of volume per resist point, divide the original number, 26000v by 4 = 6500 = 25r. Now, further divide it by 25. 1r = 260v.               Of course, the short version is simply 26000 / 0.01 = 260v = 1r

 

Well, that about takes care of the volume puzzle.

 

Quick question, where and when is the Ronin’s +30% enemy damage reduction applied?