Through the thread you were comparing a choice of regen over resistance , such choice can only come from sield, hull passives and implants. Everything else in such sn argument is unrelated because stacking is LINEAR, even though paired with full resist choices they worth considerably more than when paired with other reg modules instead.
Let’s not forget that in T5, the base regeneration will go from 600ish to 750ish
You do realize that I’ve only given the maximum amount of shield resists and added a great amount of base shield regeneration, don’t you?
I’m not choosing between them. I’m adding one to the other.
Other modules don’t give anything to your tank pool, only really your dps pool.
You’re mixing lemons with oranges again.
If by reg mods you mean regeneration active mods, you have to put those on as well. On a guard you must have the shield booster L and the emergency shield boost. Those two modules are the basis to fight with. Everything else is a bonus, and they make their usage easier.
On the dessie, with 1k+ shield regen, it’s like having a guard with high base shield regeneration and a constant active shield booster L packed alongside the defenses of a guard’s shield.
In the case of the Ronin, 30 points isn’t worth as much as more regeneration when you can already reach 110 anti EM damage already without the extra bit. Besides, being hit by EM damage is never a certainty. You must choose a point where you can buff everything, instead of just one, while taking care of all of your weaknesses and buffing your strengths.
And no, I’m not talking about sacrificing the 3c implant for the 3a implant. I’m talking about the special module that gives 150 defense and no buffs. Bring it down to 120, and give it a shield regeneration bonus, and it will be worth it all the more.
Dude, your suggestion IS more regen instaed of more resistance, and then you went on how resists devaluate.
Even more you suggest a passive armor on a destroyers hull, even multiples of them. And i am the one mixing oranges and lemons?
We’re talking about the shield, not the hull.
Let’s not forget how useful energy is, and, once again, the shield is the tank of Jericho ships. Not the hull.
And yes, it is about more regeneration instead of more resists, however that’s only because there is already enough resists, and it needs something more.
Even more resists or an actual buff.
I could easily switch this suggestion around and say that the module needs a resist buff. Regeneration is the buff that seems most needed, however. \
They could even add a 25% shield regeneration buff to the 150 defense points, and it’d be just fine.
A - there is never “enough” resistances
B - Jericho ship =/= Jericho destroyer
C - it does Not need a buff 150 resist is pretty damn good.
Resistances are great, but they don’t keep your tank pool full in an actual drawn out battle alone.
You need Resistances, but Resistances need regeneration to be truly useful. A Jericho Destroyer is just as much of a Jericho ship as anything in the tree.
150 is a good amount, true, but so is 120.
Oh, yes. speaking of which, the energy is particularly useful and stacks the shield regeneration even higher by keeping the energy at its proper levels. Other builds will not have their energy at a good capacity, so their basic shield regeneration would be anywhere from 100ish instead of at the base 300, possibly even so low as to reach close to 0. You could say that by adding the Passive armors, you ensure that the regeneration goes up by the full 300 at the lowest base. On the dessies, of course. The guards need only the 7c implant and good shield regeneration passives and modules to ensure that they’re energy stable.
Jericho ships have 1-3 / 2-3 Hull-Shield HP ratio, now go look how much HP does Sibyl/Archon has in relation to their shield HP, the shield regen you get from full cap will not offset survivability loss from that single passive armour. On top of that single 7-3 implant with some basic energy management already solves any energy issues of well built Jericho destroyer.
Amount of regen you ask is nowhere near to have any noticeable effect on recovery time, other ways to recover are already in place, and 30 resistances is a huge loss when you take into account all that is already out there. This is a) plain nerf and b) even if you come up with some huge regen number, this change is simply not needed, 150 resistances is great
Well, while I agree with some of that, I will say as I always have: Survivability is a lie.
I can’t get down into specifics on the energy regen because I have yet to build it myself, though I’ve gotten two others to build it, I don’t know everything about them, as of yet, but I do know that it has a rather large capacitor pool to fill, and the modules take up a lot of energy to use.
In any case, there is a huge difference in recovery time. Anywhere from x2 to x4 as fast as other build types on the dessies. As for on the Guards, the current regeneration rate is fine. You can make-do in a fight and after while simply using the shield booster L and not having to resort to the emergency shield boost aside from in emergencies when you have 280+ base shield regeneration that goes into 350+ while the 12c implant is in use. without any form of buff to the special module.
This argument is starting to get confusing since we’re talking about dessies and guards at the same time xD
We should be a little more specific, as even I’m getting confused as to which argument is being put towards which ship type.
I am arguing for the sake of arguing, just like people around here making suggestions for the sake of suggesting.
I see o.O
Well, it’s been a nice long argument. I’m pretty sure we’ve lasted throughout today xD
I need a drink of water x.x
30 points of resistance adds 30% (from base health) extra EHP against one type of damage. Take a guard out there with base stats 22k shield and 120 regen (base stats on ronin):
30 points of resistance essentially adds 6.6k extra health to your max tank, letting you tank ~3 extra seconds of 2k dps.
50% extra regen gives 60 shield/second. Assuming you have around 100 resistance, that’s equivalent to 120 EHP/sec. Multiply by 22 seconds (that it takes to take down 22k shields at 100 resist with 2k dps) to get ~1.3k extra EHP from max tank (first order estimate, close enough to reality), letting you tank ~1 extra second of 2k dps.
Of course that’s sustained DPS! While the 30 resist outperforms the 50% regen by a factor of about 3 for sustained, DPS, how about alpha DPS?
Well, calculating with 10k DPS (which is difficult but possible, especially with multiple ships on you):
6.6k extra EHP gives an extra .66 [exact, not 2/3] seconds of 10k DPS, assuming it’s all one damage type.
120 EHP/sec times 44k EHP / 10k DPS gives 528 extra shield, or 1056 EHP, letting you tank an extra .1 second of 10k DPS.
So sustained DPS of 2k lets resist trump regen by a factor of three, while alpha DPS of 10k lets resist trump regen by a factor of 6.
The 30 points will only add 5.95% resists.
Of which, you can gain by just having 3 people lock onto you.
I say this because using a special module that gives 120 defense points will bring the anti EM damage to 110 points, which is a 52.38% reduction, while
the +30 points would only bring it to a 58.33% reduction. Meaning that it’s now worth only an extra 1,309 shield on a 22,000 Ronin. For the rest we’ll use the fully synergized Ronin, 28,270 points.
In sustained combat using a Ronin with 240 base shield regeneration and the 12c implant bringing it to 300 shield regen p/s, the regeneration will gain 1,200 points in 4 seconds, 3,000 in 10, and 6,000 in 20, all of which is worth x2, so 12,000 points worth in 20 seconds. etc. Now to add the Shield booster L and the Emergency shield boost, and the shield will be worth 106,998 points without adding in the base shield regeneration, else-wise, in 10 seconds, it’s simply 112,988 and so on. It just keeps climbing. To note, you’ll usually be able to activate the shield booster L at least twice in an extended fight, so that keeps going up and further increases that shield to 127,838 in the total pool that constantly regenerates itself. to note, this is without adding in the auto -30% to enemy damage for it being a special project frigate. I don’t know exactly where the percentage is dropped, so I won’t put it in, but you get the idea, the pool of defense for the base shield pool and pool gained from the passive regeneration and active regeneration is actually much larger.
This is also only calculated by taking down enemy damage by 50%, it’s actually 52.38% for anti EM, 57% for anti thermal, and 56% for kinetic.
This is also without using the multiphase shield adapter for those high dps people, so that brings all defenses to about 250 or so points, about 71.43%, for
the short time needed to defend properly.
Alpha damage? doesn’t even exist.
10k enemy dps would be reduced to 5k - 2,857 points or less per second.
This is precisly why linked you my resists guide each point of resistance gives you same amount of survivabiloty no matter how much you already have (in positive range) going from 0 to 30 is equal to going from 500 to 530, 30 resistance ALWAYS WORTH SAME AMOUNT.
It does not matter that you can get 36 reists from 3 locks because then you would have gotten 66 with those locks, on top of that if you are locked and under fire by 3 people you are lookin at easily 15-20k incoming dps. Each point of resistance scales with incoming dmg, regeneration is a flat number - the higher incoming dmg the least significant regen is.
Even if it was 66 points, the new percentage of damage reduced is only 5.31% more in enemy damage reduction when compared with 33 points from locks going from 140 points to 175.
:fed014:
:01414: fixed
My math when I’m tired xD
This is precisly why linked you my resists guide
so…you’re saying that you’re xKostyan? well, that explains a lot.
I’m against this suggestion.
To the nonsense discussion:
Factor in kits and you go way better with resistance as with regen.
The 30 points will only add 5.95% resists.
Of which, you can gain by just having 3 people lock onto you.
I say this because using a special module that gives 120 defense points will bring the anti EM damage to 110 points, which is a 52.38% reduction, while
the +30 points would only bring it to a 58.33% reduction. Meaning that it’s now worth only an extra 1,309 shield on a 22,000 Ronin. For the rest we’ll use the fully synergized Ronin, 28,270 points.
In sustained combat using a Ronin with 240 base shield regeneration and the 12c implant bringing it to 300 shield regen p/s, the regeneration will gain 1,200 points in 4 seconds, 3,000 in 10, and 6,000 in 20, all of which is worth x2, so 12,000 points worth in 20 seconds. etc. Now to add the Shield booster L and the Emergency shield boost, and the shield will be worth 106,998 points without adding in the base shield regeneration, else-wise, in 10 seconds, it’s simply 112,988 and so on. It just keeps climbing. To note, you’ll usually be able to activate the shield booster L at least twice in an extended fight, so that keeps going up and further increases that shield to 127,838 in the total pool that constantly regenerates itself. to note, this is without adding in the auto -30% to enemy damage for it being a special project frigate. I don’t know exactly where the percentage is dropped, so I won’t put it in, but you get the idea, the pool of defense for the base shield pool and pool gained from the passive regeneration and active regeneration is actually much larger.
This is also only calculated by taking down enemy damage by 50%, it’s actually 52.38% for anti EM, 57% for anti thermal, and 56% for kinetic.
This is also without using the multiphase shield adapter for those high dps people, so that brings all defenses to about 250 or so points, about 71.43%, for
the short time needed to defend properly.
Alpha damage? doesn’t even exist.
10k enemy dps would be reduced to 5k - 2,857 points or less per second.
Perhaps if you looked at the guide, you’d know how to calculate EHP?
Let me do it for you. With a volume of 22000 and resist of 110, what does 30 extra resistance do?
Hidden text for Math that takes up space! :
Well, first, let’s see how much damage it can take without the 30 resist. Let x be a number that represents the amount of damage one full shield can take before going down.
x * (1 - .5238) = 22000
x = 46199
Now let’s do the same calculation with the extra 30 resistance! Let’s use y this time, because I am a stickler for semantics.
y * (1 - .5833) = 22000
y = 52796
Now let’s look at the difference between the two!
y - x = 52796 - 46199 = 6597
So, bottom line from the derivation: The 30 resistance gives just about 6600 extra EHP, which is pretty far from 1309.
A note about regeneration: Resistance affects regeneration, turning it into EHP/sec in the same way it turns volume into EHP. Therefore, a shield booster on a ship with 30 more resistance gives 30% more EHP per charge, so stop trying to pretend it makes stuff look better for your regen builds, Wolf.