Bundles scams

[DrDeath_ScD]

Just bought the destroyer bundles and it gave me useless crap. I need berry’s and neos and neither bundle gave me any. A while back I blew $300 usd to make a r11 desie. I had worked about 2 months for it, and fingered I would buy the rest of the way to it. In the end I still don’t have a r11 desie. Now r14s are coming out. I just bought one of each to see if anything changed and it was on sale. I was hoping it had changed, then I would have bought a boat load. Nope, it still screws me over like a slot machine.

 

Has anyone else had the same issue or I am just personally nerfed by the devs? I don’t have money like I usde to have. i cant risk all my gold anymore on this rigged rng.

 

I have hundreds of screen shots, more to come as I edit the chat out of them. Its rarely in my favor.

 

I feel this seriously needs reworked.

 

 

[system]

Any way I look at this I can only get to the conclusion that it’s not a player, or I should say customer friendly system at all. It is telling players that their small spendings don’t matter and better start buying in big. On the other hand, they make premiums accessible for free. Yes, there is a good reason for that and it is indeed beneficial. It is still odd that those who spend or willing to are “deceived” (sort of) by these cheap tricks. There should be guaranteed contents in single bundles at least. There is a reason players buy them and when someone with less gold keeps running into this kind of “randomness”, I would want to see them spending any gold on any bundle ever again.   

[37718502]

Not saying the OP is mad, but buying x1 instead of x5 isn’t so intelligent isn’t it?

[DrDeath_ScD]

14 minutes ago, Lord_Xenon said:

Not saying the OP is mad, but buying x1 instead of x5 isn’t so intelligent isn’t it?

I have bought 5x in the past and it yielded similar results. I was testing the waters. I have 13k gold to blow. 2 out of 2 attempts were useless duds. If the second try would given me something I would have gone big. Its like black jack in the casino. You try your luck in small amounts first, and if lucky you continue on, if not you go to next table.

 

The items I got should not even be in the bundle. They need to remove all these useless items no one wants.

[3955768]

I didn’t want to post about this but here it goes:

Bundles are the worst thing in SC shop. You have a CHANCE  for something good but they don’t tell you what are your chances. Basically it’s gambling which is illegal in many countries - you spend real money for unknown value. And who knows if chances are ‘adjusted’ when -40% happens?

Indeed other games do that too but they often have the option to buy same type product for fixed price with exact amount. Ofc if you get lucky in bundles its worth it but those who don’t gamble should get other option. 

So I didn’t want to rant about that, I bought bundles in the past - twice x5 and decided to never do this again. 

[37718502]

25 minutes ago, MassHomicide said:

I have bought 5x in the past and it yielded similar results. I was testing the waters. I have 13k gold to blow. 2 out of 2 attempts were useless duds. If the second try would given me something I would have gone big. Its like black jack in the casino. You try your luck in small amounts first, and if lucky you continue on, if not you go to next table.

 

The items I got should not even be in the bundle. They need to remove all these useless items no one wants.

They are the same, but if you read carefully, you would have wasted way less money.

5 guaranteed is good as this mean 1-2 less container.

+the x5 is cheaper as 5*1 buying.

[8292596]

Bought the 100$ pack of gs during the 40% bonus. 

Then spent them during this weekend sale to have a r11 desie. 

Result? 17k GS out of 63k and I got it. Buy them by pack of 5. They have a guaranteed good loot. 

 

 

[3955768]

18 minutes ago, Swifter43021 said:

Result? 17k GS out of 63k and I got it. Buy them by pack of 5. They have a guaranteed good loot. 

Interesting so 17k = r11 (in your case) meaning:

Everything is approximated:

17k GS  = 21 x5 bundles. 105 bundles = 32+20=52 plates

It’s half plate from each bundle if buying x5.   

 

[system]

That’s about 27 bucks when everything is bought on sale and about 38$ if the bundle is on sale only… and if you don’t need to buy other resources like monocrystal. So this is not that bad. The problem is the fact that this is pure gambling. There are places where online gambling or advertising it is forbidden and punished. I am surprised payment systems like this in games are not considered as gambling by governments. But of course I am not familiar with the laws about these kind of things so my logic may seem dumb.

[8292596]

Yeah the problem is also that even the x5 bonus is random. 

It can be 1 or 3 plates. 

[system]

I just found this interesting article: http://www.ijis.net/ijis10_1/ijis10_1_evers_et_al.pdf It’s not related directly to the problem of in-game gambling systems but it is still interesting to see the psychological aspects of a gaming community… most of which anyone can see with some common sense. 

The real question here is that in what ways and how much games make or should make their customers happy with contents they offer. I don’t know. I got hooked by the topic. Diggin’ in.  

[5173541]

This RNG system is the same for everyone. It’s not rigged for anyone. It’s random.

It can be viewed as a gambling system, which is psychologically conditioning you, in a passive way, to become an addict. But that’s the same for every F2P game now.

 

Players told me, that the Store used to bump the % drop chances up during the sales, so that you could actually end up with getting more sought loot.

How so? They spent enough of real money and wrote down their results, then compared them. You can’t argue with that. Best option is to buy x5 containers only. That’s true.

However, now they are probably doing the opposite after they figured it out, that this system is better in terms of effectiveness and cost.

According to the feedback, each big sale now probably also decreases the base % drop chance, to compensate for the discount sale.

 

While you might still get something out of it, you basically don’t get 40 more in %, but much less in terms of your drop chances for sought loot for the value you invested in.

Another problem is, that you’re not spending real money, but in game’s currency. So, such items are non-refundable.

It’s actually just a BUSINESS model.

We must not forget the fact, that you can earn such loot in the game as well, except for Live Crystal containers, which will become available as well.

So, technically, it’s not a gambling system, at least not in a true sense, but it’s random.

Goal is to make players spend as much as possible and this system apparently works much better, than the one, that actually lets you choose your loot.

 

I suspect they have a lawyer to take advantage of the loopholes or vulnerabilities in the law, but that’s probably the same for every corporation, which care for only one thing they need and want the most - PROFIT.

However, despite all of that, we can express our opinion, but we can’t do anything about it. It’s probably all legal, even if shady in some cases, or distasteful.

You can only choose to support, or not to support such game, if you don’t agree with it.

 

Remember, you all accepted the EULA and in the EULA, all such things are mentioned. If you disagree, you have only two choices. No longer play, or close your account.

[3955768]

1 hour ago, Sinaka said:

I just found this interesting article: http://www.ijis.net/ijis10_1/ijis10_1_evers_et_al.pdf 

They talk about selling ‘advantage’… Not clear what’s that and I wouldn’t trust sociology - they can easily try to convince you both ways on every topic.

 

9 minutes ago, Koromac said:

This RNG system is the same for everyone. It’s not rigged for anyone. It’s random.

See, it’s not “random”. It has “undefined chances” which is a different thing from “random”. If it was random you could calculate expected value - here you don’t know anything except what people say.

Regarding gambling here, I think this one is legal (If it’s not, they can’t let me agree or disagree with it with EULA) but it’s still a bad thing. Just bad.

[system]

Talking about RNG in an MMO is pointless. Nothing is random in these games. Random enough, at best. In fact, generating true randomness is so complex that not even sure if mankind ever achieved it. Probably not.

I would not speculate on anyone’s own statistical results. It may be good for a vague guessing but nothing more. It has to be a big sample to be able to play with statistics. And if I had to guess whether or not they are/were aware of the possible chances then I would say yes, definitely. And if they adjusted the drop rate during sales, that would simply be cheating. Or stealing if you like. It can happen but we don’t have the numbers to prove it. No one outside the management has. That is the point and the big business. But again… speculations.

But, getting back to the topic. It sure is a gambling system. We started looking at bundles purchased by real money but it doesn’t really matter actually. Rules are or should be the same.

My logic says, if there is a content offered for purchase through a system like this, just like in any lottery, there should be an approved and auditable method that they use. Here comes into the picture that infamous RNG. For single bundles it is randomly generated among those items displayed. (This is what I don’t like since there is no at least one guaranteed main item.) For x5 content it is different because it has a random chance with 1-3 plates and random chance with the rest of the stuff. These are all nicely programmed(!). But, none of them are saying that you are getting this for sure and some surprise items. So it cannot be anything but gambling. Unlike DLCs and premiums for GS. And that was clear and no one ever had a single word against those. Maybe against their high prices but that’s another story.

I don’t know what exactly the EULA contains and if I read all that I wouldn’t clearly understand it anyway. Anyhow, I can’t look at this whole system other way than a gambling and I am not sure that the 12+ age restriction is legit. Even if they followed rules used by many online companies worldwide. It’s truly a shady business model and feels like it’s a disrespectful practice against gamers.

They want to make money? Sure. Who doesn’t? But not this way.   

 

1 hour ago, gheni4 said:

They talk about selling ‘advantage’… Not clear what’s that and I wouldn’t trust sociology - they can easily try to convince you both ways on every topic.

I thought it was interesting because the biggest thing in online gameing industry is microtransactions nowadays. In this paper it is shown that gamers dislike those who make these micro spendings (mostly if they buy advantage contents) but still everyone keeps buying them. And as I read in other articles it can grow to a 200M$+ business.     

[DrDeath_ScD]

9 hours ago, Swifter43021 said:

Bought the 100$ pack of gs during the 40% bonus. 

Then spent them during this weekend sale to have a r11 desie. 

Result? 17k GS out of 63k and I got it. Buy them by pack of 5. They have a guaranteed good loot. 

 

 

Lucky you. Several months back I bought the $99 gold packs, and then the $40 one several times in the pursuit of trying to get a r11 desie. In all my dumb a** wasted just over 300 on gold. Guess what, I did not one.

As far as this being random I highly doubt it. I am certain my odds have been adjusted due to my relationship with those in control.

 

[3955768]

3 hours ago, Sinaka said:

Talking about RNG in an MMO is pointless. Nothing is random in these games. Random enough, at best. In fact, generating true randomness is so complex that not even sure if mankind ever achieved it. Probably not.

Sinaka… I was not talking about true random but the simple fact of unknown probability. Chances and random numbers are two different things. If you dont see my point example:

Digital d6 pseudo-dice always gives 1,2,3,4,5 in that order. After 10 loops it also shows 6. You chances to see 6 is lower than any other number but nothing is random here.

[system]

3 minutes ago, gheni4 said:

Sinaka… I was not talking about true random but the simple fact of unknown probability. Chances and random numbers are two different things. If you dont see my point example:

Digital d6 pseudo-dice always gives 1,2,3,4,5 in that order. After 10 loops it also shows 6. You chances to see 6 is lower than any other number but nothing is random here.

Ah, my talks about RNG went to Koro’s post but you may be right. Some terms are often being confused. Anyhow, as long as the used generating method is unknown there is no place for accusations. From my point of gamer view all I can see that the philosophy behind this system is just wrong.

[8292596]

1 hour ago, MassHomicide said:

Lucky you. Several months back I bought the $99 gold packs, and then the $40 one several times in the pursuit of trying to get a r11 desie. In all my dumb a** wasted just over 300 on gold. Guess what, I did not one.

As far as this being random I highly doubt it. I am certain my odds have been adjusted due to my relationship with those in control.

 

How the hell did you do ?

It’s 810 GS a pack of 5 with the current sale. So 810 GS for an enriched beryllium/neodium plate. 

 

You need 32 bery + 20 neo, so even with the worst luck ever, it’s 40k GS. 

 

[39939376]

On 11.09.2016 at 1:42 PM, gheni4 said:

Basically it’s gambling which is illegal in many countries - you spend real money for unknown value.

Illegal gambling actualy has a chance of losing everything and get nothing, that’s why it’s illegal. In SC pilots are bying guaranteed items, but it could be different amount of this, and the list of items is available for everybody + bonuses for buying 5 containers at once. And also, there’re the pilots who were lucky enough to get max possible value out of it. I think the word “scam” is about something else.

[3955768]

1 hour ago, CinnamonFake said:

I think the word “scam” is about something else.

I wouldn’t call that either but here why I say this is ‘bad thing’. Look at this:

Spoiler

See the word ‘Random’??? That’s a lie. Choice of items is not random. You can recheck the meaning of the word - you guys obviously have some system that will pick x3 Beryllium less often than ‘metal blank’ so its not random! I already said that my problem is:

On 9/11/2016 at 9:48 PM, gheni4 said:

…I was not talking about true random but the simple fact of unknown probability…

You don’t have to say what are our chances but at least describe it differently!