Balances for various aspects

Suggestions Balance
#1

Hello community. I will get to the point. I know this is in beta and it will take some time for this to be fine tuned. I would like to say what I have noticed that I feel should be looked into.

Every ship gets a special ability and I feel that those special abilities should live up to the keyword special… Meaning they can use it. As it stands there is way too many ECM ships in every match. When your modules get locked for 10+ seconds the fight goes from an even match to you are dead for Fighter:Tacklers. It is not possible to kill an ECM before they get their things off in most situations. When you can’t stealth away you are nothing but, a fighter. Nothing is special. I am suggestion lowering the timer on that to make this even.

For Long Range Frigates… I know the community says they are under powered in later tiers. Keyword is later. For the first 4 tiers they are a problem because of that Distintigrater Beam. It does 5,000 damage. That is enough to instant kill or severly wound any ship for the early tiers. To compound this problem they get some sort of module or ability that makes them untargetable AND a mine field. Hit and run tactics are in most cases not viable in some maps. This discourages players early on and for the most part they avoid them. This allows them to camp. This makes it a disadvantage in Team Captain fights where camping is normal. It becomes a game of who has more Long Range Frigates in some battles. I feel they need to be looked into as well.

The Interceptor Web Ability is another problem. Because this damage is continuous and they are faster then you this proves a problem for Fighter:Tacklers. This means you can’t stealth as well. Between these ships, the ECM AND the deployable satelites it feels like there is no such thing as stealth in this game is what it feels like to me. I suggest lowering the intervals that the web attacks or remove it’s damage all together.

I suggest a similar idea to the Frigate:Guard with their module for doing damage in an area. I would lower the intervals but, leave the damage. This will give fighters a better chance with hit and run tactics.

This is all I have for now that I wish to bring the community to discuss. What is the communities thoughts?

 

#2

Everything is in a good state as it is other than the “Bubble Gun”. This gun has the highest amount of spike damage in the game seeing as how you can crit for 10k+.

 

If your having problems with ECM get a proton wall and Jer rank 2 implant. Covert ops is also a hard counter to ECM with its white noise jammer.

 

Tacklers hard counter is Recon. You have to make these you primary target if your going in before any other when playing a tackler. Other than that I would like to see that it shouldn’t use your cloak ability if your under spy drones or micro locator it should be DISABLED while in or under the effect.

 

GawdFist aka ZeroCool

#3

Please place individual suggestions in different threads.

 

As for stealth, like all other game mechanics, it has counters as Zero mentioned. Ultimately, it is a tactical module that requires much foresight. For example, I would not recommend hit-and-run tactics on a Tackler when there is an enemy Recon nearby.

#4

Hello community. I will get to the point. I know this is in beta and it will take some time for this to be fine tuned. I would like to say what I have noticed that I feel should be looked into.

Every ship gets a special ability and I feel that those special abilities should live up to the keyword special… Meaning they can use it. As it stands there is way too many ECM ships in every match. When your modules get locked for 10+ seconds the fight goes from an even match to you are dead for Fighter:Tacklers. It is not possible to kill an ECM before they get their things off in most situations. When you can’t stealth away you are nothing but, a fighter. Nothing is special. I am suggestion lowering the timer on that to make this even.  ECM counters Tackler

For Long Range Frigates… I know the community says they are under powered in later tiers. Keyword is later. For the first 4 tiers they are a problem because of that Distintigrater Beam. It does 5,000 damage. That is enough to instant kill or severly wound any ship for the early tiers. To compound this problem they get some sort of module or ability that makes them untargetable AND a mine field. Hit and run tactics are in most cases not viable in some maps. This discourages players early on and for the most part they avoid them. This allows them to camp. This makes it a disadvantage in Team Captain fights where camping is normal. It becomes a game of who has more Long Range Frigates in some battles. I feel they need to be looked into as well.  LRF kills Tackler

The Interceptor Web Ability is another problem. Because this damage is continuous and they are faster then you this proves a problem for Fighter:Tacklers. This means you can’t stealth as well. Between these ships, the ECM AND the deployable satelites it feels like there is no such thing as stealth in this game is what it feels like to me. I suggest lowering the intervals that the web attacks or remove it’s damage all together. Interceptors kill Tackler

I suggest a similar idea to the Frigate:Guard with their module for doing damage in an area. I would lower the intervals but, leave the damage. This will give fighters a better chance with hit and run tactics. Pulsar hurts Tackler

This is all I have for now that I wish to bring the community to discuss. What is the communities thoughts?

 

 

My thoughts are: Tacklers are hard to use hopefully they’ll get improved a little in the future. Until then - nerfing everything else to make the weak tackler plays better is not a solution.

#5

Real Zero… I disagree with Recon being the hard counter. I feel it is ECM. I have no issues with Recon in my Fighter:Tackler. I use my Engine slow ability then vaporize them with my ion beams. Also you are basing your idea off of something most people dont have

Zeik sorry about multiple ideas. I get that they are a counter. I do not feel it is right for them to lock my modules for 10 seconds though. I feel that is too long and does not make it a fair fight. Not only is my Stealth locked but, my Engine slowing capablities.

As for Kine… I hope so as well. They are in bad shape. For people who play Federation it is a hard road ahead considering it is nothing but, Fighter:Tackler for 7 ranks depending where you go in the tree

#6

Yeah I guess I could be wrong with 4400 games played. With ECM i can just cloak away then come back right around and kill you. With a Recon i have to deal with you right there and then if your on my butt.

 

If you want to test your ecm out add me in game GawdFist.

#7

I guess LRFs seem OPed in earlier tiers because the damage scales poorly up the tiers, and because lower tier players usually don’t know how to avoid Disintegrator beams. A good recon player will make short work of a poorly guarded Imperial LRF. In T2, I do believe that the side with more LRFs usually loses.

 

As for what counters the tackler… they are one of the worse ships out of the nine types, and IMO you need to have good timing and dogfighting skills, plus you also need to know when to rush in, and when to withdraw. I don’t face tackler problems when I’m flying my recon, because most of them don’t know how to fly a tackler well. They put on their debuffs too quickly, so it’s easy to cloak, then return for them when their speed debuff is on cooldown. Parasitic remodulator + spy drones = tackler dies.

#8

 For people who play Federation it is a hard road ahead considering it is nothing but, Fighter:Tackler for 7 ranks depending where you go in the tree

 

The funny part is that in T3, the Federation has more (and probably better) F2P gunships than the Empire has.

#9

I guess LRFs seem OPed in earlier tiers because the damage scales poorly up the tiers, and because lower tier players usually don’t know how to avoid Disintegrator beams. A good recon player will make short work of a poorly guarded Imperial LRF.

Not in T1, ships are too slow and gun and missile choices too limited, a good Harpy player will reign supreme. Rank 5 and upwards the situation changes and a lone recon (or anyone) is indeed able to quickly dispatch any unguarded LRF that is an annoyance.

The funny part is that in T3, the Federation has more (and probably better) F2P gunships than the Empire has.

That’s symptomatic of T3 though, for several roles the nation specializing in them only get a lower rank version than the nation which has that role in their side-line. Really strange progression in that tier…

#10

Real Zero… I only have Fighters. I think we had a miscommunication. I have also fought you twice now. Only one of those matches was I able to counter you… I ended up killing you only twice in my Fighter. The other times I found myself getting ganged banged or in a horrible position to defend myself. I will follow you in game and you can perhaps watch me in a match or at least know my name so if you see me in combat again.

Edit: Real Zero the game is telling me that “Gawdfist” does not exist. I will add when I see you again or something

Jacxis… I don’t think I fought you, so you probally have never seen me. In a lot of cases when you do everything right you will lose a fight. In a SOME cases I pull real life Fighter plane tactics such as hitting after burners then going straight up then coming back down (usually behind an asteroid). Even when I do everything I think is right in that situation I still end up losing. I lose more to ECM’s then Recon. I am not sure if it is because I am good or because the Recon fighter pilots I go after suck but, that is how it is. The real problem is how long all those debuffs last. I can win a dog fight but, when the entire game is against me no way.

You mentioned when to know to run away… I do that but, when you have a Web doing 10% of your shields every second you can’t cloak and run. You can’t be faster then an interceptor on after burners either. Keep that in mind.

As for LRF’s the problem is finding someone who is good. Chances are slim in a random match. This means dealing with it on your own and when they can cloak and mine field it makes it more annoying to find them and kill them. One wrong direction and you take 4K damage from a mine field. This is another tool of theirs to camp freely.

Capnic… The only reason they seem better is because they are fast. It is completely possible to follow Recon ships at higher Synergy levels under the right circumstances. That is the Federation’s strength. Their base speed for Fighters is about 53 M/S BASE. With Synergy that gets a lot higher. When you add in the Implants for Federation it gets even better. They have 2 implants relating to After Burners (Re-heat is the Royal Airforces way of saying it). The first gives you -20% cost on After Burners and the other gives +7% speed increase. This is the benefit of a Federation Fighter. Unfortunately they do not have the survivability of say an Empire Fighter. This is why in any fight you use that speed to you’re advantage.

#11

You mentioned when to know to run away… I do that but, when you have a Web doing 10% of your shields every second you can’t cloak and run. You can’t be faster then an interceptor on after burners either. Keep that in mind.

If you want someone who can teach you how to ru-… perform a ‘tactical retreat’, I’m the guy you really want to talk to.

#12

Jacxis… I don’t think I fought you, so you probally have never seen me. In a lot of cases when you do everything right you will lose a fight. In a SOME cases I pull real life Fighter plane tactics such as hitting after burners then going straight up then coming back down (usually behind an asteroid). Even when I do everything I think is right in that situation I still end up losing. I lose more to ECM’s then Recon. I am not sure if it is because I am good or because the Recon fighter pilots I go after suck but, that is how it is. The real problem is how long all those debuffs last. I can win a dog fight but, when the entire game is against me no way.

You mentioned when to know to run away… I do that but, when you have a Web doing 10% of your shields every second you can’t cloak and run. You can’t be faster then an interceptor on after burners either. Keep that in mind.

 

SC is a space shooter, so I don’t really use fighter jet techniques (I frequently abuse stall to reposition myself, but there’s no stall here). I just kinda improvise my own tactics.

 

How do you usually fly your tackler? IMO tacklers are support hit-and-run ships. They don’t have the staying power of command fighters or the damage of gunships (in fact, even gunships are hit-and-run vessels). 

#13

I usually fly close enough to a battle and hide behind an asteroid. I will sit there for about a minute and let my long range sensor capabilities (I have the increased sensor range implant) locate the enemy (or through friendly radar). I identify where the enemy is at, where the holes are at and even look at the map and plan my escape route. When I have enough information I pounce the nearest ship that I feel I am capable of killing or at least severly wounding to the point where I can return later on and finish the job.

If it is some map or type of mission where I am needed more towards the rear such as a beacon mission a lot of the times I will fly with a friendly and give them cover. If I am behind an asteroid scanning and I hear a friendly in need of help I forget my current plans and immediately after burner it to their location in an attempt to save them.

In short it depends. 8/10 times though I can be found hiding and scanning. I do love me some Frigates mmm… So delicious and so easy to kill a lot of the times.

 

#14

Yeah I guess I could be wrong with 4400 games played. With ECM i can just cloak away

#15

Yeah I guess I could be wrong with 4400 games played. With Against ECM i can just cloak away

 

Is that what you meant?

 

 

 

I usually fly close enough to a battle and hide behind an asteroid. I will sit there for about a minute and let my long range sensor capabilities (I have the increased sensor range implant) locate the enemy (or through friendly radar). I identify where the enemy is at, where the holes are at and even look at the map and plan my escape route. When I have enough information I pounce the nearest ship that I feel I am capable of killing or at least severly wounding to the point where I can return later on and finish the job.

If it is some map or type of mission where I am needed more towards the rear such as a beacon mission a lot of the times I will fly with a friendly and give them cover. If I am behind an asteroid scanning and I hear a friendly in need of help I forget my current plans and immediately after burner it to their location in an attempt to save them.

In short it depends. 8/10 times though I can be found hiding and scanning. I do love me some Frigates mmm… So delicious and so easy to kill a lot of the times.

 

It’s alright to jump someone whom you think you can finish off, though I’d like to ask if these are key targets such as bomb carriers, enemies attacking your team’s bomb carriers, intys circle-strafing an ally’s frigate etc. Tacklers aren’t solo ships: they lack the damage to kill fast, and they don’t have the speed to singlehandedly harass an enemy formation. Even in solo fights, you’ll get circle strafed by intys, you can’t outshoot the gunship or outlast a command/guard (unless you like bubbles).

 

I try to limit myself to pinging important stuff that my team will respond to. Alternatively I respond to pings; tackler debuffs on an inty are no joke if you can’t shrug them off easily. If you’re hitting an ECM, try to get as many teammates as you can: an ECM that gets hammered by so many enemies won’t have time to lock on and shut you down, and as long as your engine suppressor stays on he can’t run. Recons will cloak and run, so don’t use your engine suppresser too quickly (cooldown is too high). Covops usually have no way of breaking out if you stay within line of sight. If they web you, unless you’re already low on HP you should be able to tank it. 

 

AFAIK target painter and inhibitor beam ignores:

  • ECM’s metastable field
  • Covops’ adaptive camo
  • LRF’s EM scattering field

Not sure about white noise and IR pulsar though. Not too sure about engine suppressor either; it either runs out, or my target dies first.

 

For some odd reasons, if you hit Cloak when you’re webbed, the cloak icon appears on the HUD (as opposed to spy drones/micro locator, where your cloak fails immediately) until the web wears out, then both icons vanish. 

#16

Oh I get the question now. My priority list goes like this… Frigate → Fighter —> Interceptor (interceptor last on my list). I never engage an ECM or those interceptors solo. Even in a bomb mission I wait for allies. I disagree with your comment. My ship recently changed because of me getting further up in the tiers. I am now on a Gunship. Regardless I can tell you that most of my kills as a Tackler were Frigates. I was very capable of taking any kind of Frigate on my own in most cases. I still use the Railgun. It seems to do the job. I also recently tried out the Gauss Cannon and I like that too.

I still do not know the button to pingly sadly but, I do respond to pings. The Web is a damage over time so it not only appears on the HUD but, it takes you out of cloak. That is why I made that post. The Web is another way to get someone uncloaked. This adds to the already long list of anti-cloak and again I feel it needs to be reduced. It also adds to the rediculous damage. That web can easily do 5K damage if it does it’s entire pulse. That is all of my shields alone… Add in a weapon screw that. It needs to be looked into

#17

I still do not know the button to pingly sadly but, I do respond to pings. The Web is a damage over time so it not only appears on the HUD but, it takes you out of cloak. That is why I made that post. The Web is another way to get someone uncloaked. This adds to the already long list of anti-cloak and again I feel it needs to be reduced. It also adds to the rediculous damage. That web can easily do 5K damage if it does it’s entire pulse. That is all of my shields alone… Add in a weapon screw that. It needs to be looked into

I believe the default for pinging is numpad 3.  I also reported a “bug” and was later informed pressing R twice, lock onto target in crosshairs, will ping the target.  I had a free button on my mouse that I changed it to.  You could change it to middle click since the ping is probably more valuable than continuous weapon fire.

 

As for plasma web, it’s best for kills on cloakable targets, assists on dieing targets ganged up on, and nuisance.  And 5k damage?  Check your resists.

#18

GAME FAIL

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AE_MartyG021486_ Last Saturday at 01:53

I think this game is a NICE game but its one of the most unbalanced games ever made; and I think the devs have done a bad job in that, likewise. WHO EVER thought that making interceptors at T5 stronger than frigates was a great way to balance the game is just wrong about it.

Let me explain further… 
(((Small ships: ECM, Recon, Covert Ops; 
Medium: Gunships, Command, Tackler; 
Frigates: Long Range, Guard, Engineering)))

 

 

*Tier 1: 
Interceptors or any other smaller and fast ships are weak and slower but still faster than medium ships but weaker than frights

Small ships - weak 
Medium ships - mild 
Frigates ships - a bit over mild or just about strong

 

*Tier 2

Small Ships - less weak but more effective that b4 
Medium ships - a bit over medium but balanced
Frigates ships - strong at this point

 

*Tier 3

Small Ships - getting fast more effective and strong (dealing damage) within tier not that weak 
Medium ships - same getting more effective 
Frigates ships - stronger but and some what equal to other type of ships

 

*Tier 4

Small Ships - got stronger than last tier from ships within tier in comparison 
Medium ships - strong from within against frigates only 
Frigates ships - stronger but weakening against medium and small ships

 

*Tier 5

Small ships - got way too OP way too strong and way too much resistance with more damage in comparison against the same tier and any other tier in damage ratios. Way too many modules that make them better. Way too fast too to even get hit by frigates. Their missiles are way too strong in comparison to damage per second especially against any frigate even guards they heal way too fast too faster than any other type of ship.

Medium ships - got way too strong too and resist way too much heal fast but too.

Frigate ships - stronger that previous tiers but weak as hell against small and medium ships. They have little resistance like previous tiers. they are way too slow. they heal fast but not that fast according to the damage ratio from a small or medium ship and dont match up with the balancing against smaller and medium ships

In over all that is a messed up balancing of the game.

#Attached is a graph I made to better understand what I’m trying to explain (to illustrate the current “balance”) which I say is unfair balance. Like the strengths and effectiveness flipped and by a big difference which makes it so unfair for us frigate players and lovers.

Don’t get me wrong, I like the game… its very nice and has nice graphics but the game balancing is not so good and not to mention the MatchMaking, that is frustrating and don’t make sense why it would be made this way…

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AE_MartyG021486_ Last Saturday at 02:07

NOTE:

The reason I have noticed this is because I have played the same players I play against on Tier 5 also in Tier 2 and 3; and yes I have noticed the differences among ship strengths and if you see me in Tier 3 I’m not a bad player I’m actually a killer with usually 10+ kills. Same players I play in T5 seem like pros or OP but in T3 they are good players but not that good that I can waste their life faster and kill them over and over with my frigates.

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AE_MartyG021486_ Last Saturday at 02:09

Yes I do get killed in T3 too but at least I go with the satisfaction that I did something and not just died for nothing. My skill rate is usually around 1380-1550 and currently at 1432 depending on what happens to my teams. -_-

 

#19

Please do not necro dead threads. Thanks