Balance Of F2P and P2W 1/18/17

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6 hours ago, Mecronmancer said:

Hurrdurr I can’t take criticism because muh feelings.

Literally any multiplayer game will have things that are “OP” at any given point simply because whatever that character or ship is can allow for easier handling of rough situations or wide degrees of flexibility. By them having those it is not by definition OP, but there is a group of ignorant people who think that it is OP and therefore breaks the game, yadda yadda yadda. It’s stupid but this QQ has existed for a long time and will not go anywhere, regardless of whatever multiplayer pvp game you play.

My examples:

• 2010 competitive TF2: 1 scout, 1 soldier, 1 medic, and 1 demoman can completely wreck literally any team setup out there, but had counters (Pyro). Tried it with a group of friends and we literally would win game after game like Milf and Eug. Still didn’t break competitive TF2 and every game that had that team combo were not guaranteed wins.
• 2013 competitive DOTA: Alchemist. I don’t need to say any more about that character - if you play Dota 2 you know what I’m talking about (coughcough XBOCT in TI3 coughcough). Got countered with focusing in teamfights and abilities that went through BKB.
• BLR: M4X rifle, SMG, and AMR could out DPS any other gun out there (and the AMR was the ONLY gun that could OHKO anyone, but required a high grind to the level to obtain it or pay ZEN, hurrdurr muh p2w). Even those guns were amazing, the starter gun that people got FOR FREE could STILL hold it’s own against those other guns. Easily.
• Combat Arms: G36E, M416 CQB, and P90TR. Vastly outclassed virtually every other gun (over 500 guns) in the armory in the game. Did not guarantee a win every single time nor did it “break the game”, yet those guns were OBJECTIVELY better guns than all the others.

My point? This QQ in SC is nothing new, and it won’t go anywhere. Even if a direct countering weapon to these Ellydium ships were introduced, ignorant players will still find something to complain about.

And yet we have a PvE community and corps purely dedicated to playing PvE.

The problem is not that there are OP stuff in the game, since this has been the case since the beginnning. The problem is that any new content added to the game in recent months has been systematically OP in order to get more people to buy it with the new semi-premium bundles system. Even worse, some ships such as vigilant and thar’ga were buffed after many complaints that they were OP! (and this goes beyond my usual whining about dessies, since even dessie pilots were saying that vigilant is stronger than all others before it was buffed…).

 

The only good decision was to move Dart and Gargoyle to rank 11, and even then they are still very strong with their unique modules - only lessened compared to higher ranked ships thanks to implants and to a certain extent number of passive mod slots.

[3229917]

4 hours ago, millanbel said:

 Even worse, some ships such as vigilant and thar’ga were buffed after many complaints that they were OP!

Forget about Vigil, it won’t last 10 seconds with Thar’gas swarming it, even with 200+ resists. Those vacuum laser ended up speed up my shield regen instead of damage it 

[13427972]

1 hour ago, Milfeulle said:

Forget about Vigil, it won’t last 10 seconds with Thar’gas swarming it, even with 200+ resists. Those vacuum laser ended up speed up my shield regen instead of damage it 

12 hours ago, Mecronmancer said:

Hurrdurr I can’t take criticism because muh feelings.

Literally any multiplayer game will have things that are “OP” at any given point simply because whatever that character or ship is can allow for easier handling of rough situations or wide degrees of flexibility. By them having those it is not by definition OP, but there is a group of ignorant people who think that it is OP and therefore breaks the game, yadda yadda yadda. It’s stupid but this QQ has existed for a long time and will not go anywhere, regardless of whatever multiplayer pvp game you play.

My examples:

• 2010 competitive TF2: 1 scout, 1 soldier, 1 medic, and 1 demoman can completely wreck literally any team setup out there, but had counters (Pyro). Tried it with a group of friends and we literally would win game after game like Milf and Eug. Still didn’t break competitive TF2 and every game that had that team combo were not guaranteed wins.
• 2013 competitive DOTA: Alchemist. I don’t need to say any more about that character - if you play Dota 2 you know what I’m talking about (coughcough XBOCT in TI3 coughcough). Got countered with focusing in teamfights and abilities that went through BKB.
• BLR: M4X rifle, SMG, and AMR could out DPS any other gun out there (and the AMR was the ONLY gun that could OHKO anyone, but required a high grind to the level to obtain it or pay ZEN, hurrdurr muh p2w). Even those guns were amazing, the starter gun that people got FOR FREE could STILL hold it’s own against those other guns. Easily.
• Combat Arms: G36E, M416 CQB, and P90TR. Vastly outclassed virtually every other gun (over 500 guns) in the armory in the game. Did not guarantee a win every single time nor did it “break the game”, yet those guns were OBJECTIVELY better guns than all the others.

My point? This QQ in SC is nothing new, and it won’t go anywhere. Even if a direct countering weapon to these Ellydium ships were introduced, ignorant players will still find something to complain about.

And yet we have a PvE community and corps purely dedicated to playing PvE.

Nope. It’s not like that at all. Before p2w race began, balance was all about skiled players with a good ping against little minded guys with no other intent other than spoil their best shot (guards, ceptors, gunships). 

Ceptors were op (even if gunships in organized squads were far more op) but “free”.

Frigballing was op,easy and utterly boring. But it was free.

Etc.

Since then, and even the first time destros appeared, it was kinda tollerable since all “op tactics” could be achieved by everyone without cash. 

Now is different. I’m telling you that last 2 things called op, where gamebreaking and undeniably broken.

Let me be crystal clear about thar’ga. From a decent skilled guy who is still playing.

• At r15 It can’t be beated.

-One single decent player can spawn camp 6 avarage players, 3 vets.

• It’s best fit is behind a paywall.

This is the sad true, 

Probably in the future, something more op and behind another paywall will come. That’s it. I don’t care about how other games are called or not “p2win” or whatever. I actively play THIS game and I know how I can call it. It’s not whining, it’s legit criticism over something that is just lame. We went fron unachiaveble, wanted, balance. To “let’s spoils those miserable guys and their wallets”.

On anothet topic, I laugh when I see the guys defending destro’s spam when it was all about spill them more money in something that was op “momentarly”. “it will lead the game developers some cash!” And meanwhile we (na0bs) can beat vets… Yeah things changed, now op rely somewhere else and they are here on this forum whining… There is a huge difference between defending your own personal point and actually being right.

Let me say it again: there is no way to beat a max level thar’ga one vs one or 2vs1 or 3vs1. Unless you use another thar’ga.

Aaaand the best fit atm is behind a paywall.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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13 hours ago, Mecronmancer said:

Literally any multiplayer game will have things that are “OP” at any given point simply because whatever that character or ship is can allow for easier handling of rough situations or wide degrees of flexibility. By them having those it is not by definition OP, but there is a group of ignorant people who think that it is OP and therefore breaks the game, yadda yadda yadda. It’s stupid but this QQ has existed for a long time and will not go anywhere, regardless of whatever multiplayer pvp game you play.

Your post annoys me nearly as much as the one that got this whole mess of comments started. It almost seems as though you are trying to lead us to the conclusion that the Thar’ga is not broken. It almost seems as though you are saying that those who disagree with you are a group of ignorant people who are stupid and irrelevant. It’s almost as though you make an argument against those who complain, rather than an argument for what they complain about. I certainly hope those weren’t your intentions, and that I have simply misconstrued the meaning behind the words of such a respected community member.

You bring up an interesting point though. There are indeed things in every game that posses a slight edge over other things, and this does not necessarily make them OP. This however, is not the state of Thar’ga as it is right now. From what I understand, in the higher tiers, a well flown Thar’ga will decimate entire teams, and does not die; even when there are several competent people trying to kill it. This is far from something that could be played off as easier handling in rough situations, or wide degrees of flexibility. I feel that I am justified in calling this OP, and it has the potential to cause players to leave the game out of frustration and helplessness, which is not something I want to see happening.

The original poster could have been more tactful in his delivery, but I do think that the edge that expensive content provides should not be so dramatically obvious.

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4 hours ago, LaenZero said:

Your post annoys me nearly as much as the original one. It almost seems as though you are trying to lead us to the conclusion that the Thar’ga is not broken. It almost seems as though you are saying that those who disagree with you are a group of ignorant people who are stupid and irrelevant. 

Forget about this, I’ve fought against this, couff couff, let’s call it “attitude” for ages.

The results? Being called crazy, stupid, alcool addict, ignorant, f*g, stupid, idiot etc.

In the end? Got temp banned…

Well, guys. Enjoy thar’ga. I could buy it out and kick all your whiner’s a** even more than usual.

But I have dignity. ”)

And a momentary job…

[5207021]

Cleaned up some trash , the kind of behaviour that has been shown by you guys (MightyHoot, formerly known as Tillowaty and SpongeJohn (primarily)) is intolerable. This is the first and last warning. I would either punish you all or none, I rather stick with none for now, the next offense that is showing offense (even with funny memes) or racism (or whatever you wanna call it, don’t use the word italian if it’s supposed to be something else) - will be punished appropriately, to be exact,  2 weeks no posting , and 3 warning points. Thank you.
Also, who started does not matter, you continued both and therefore you are both guilty. Simple. If you use the report system you should also be adult enough to wait until something happens instead of fuel the flame.

Please stay on topic.

[18111780]

I played Star Conflict way back (they had just started making Open Space available), stopped for other games then returned a few weeks back.

The grind to next level seems harder then back then, but that’s not too bad, then I ran into Destroyers.

The idea is cool, the implementation thou? Not so much, then there’s the Thar’Ga…

 

The fact you need to manufacture these means that “wallet warriors” get an edge at their respective rank, I wondered why people with hundred or even thousand of hours on Steam were leaving negative reviews of “P2W”, now I know.

 

The game is still fun, but every PvP match is slowed way the heck down when Destroyers get involved and Thar’Gas pretty much dictate who wins the match.

 

I don’t think manufactured ships should have such an overwhelming edge over normal progression ships, while the Thar’Ga might eventually see nerfs (devs must know of the numbers these can pull) I think a Destroyer (that you cannoy custom like the manufactured ones) should be available from progression.

 

That I believe would help some with the feel that Destroyers are pure “P2W”, well at least that’s my opinion.  

 

[3402178]

I see why we’re getting all this OP garbage dumped on the game. What annoys me is why companies do this instead of just coming out and saying “look, we need to earn money - what sort of things would you actually pay for?”

Hell, by this point if licences let you play games where Destroyers and Thar’ga were banned, I’d get a licence again!

[35982003]

I’m sad… very sad because of what ?.. this game was very cool : strategy, skills, hard learning etc… but now, it’s just pay to win game… thar’ga, dart, gargoyle ruin this game… but i love fly with my ships, try to kill or help my friends… but now it’s just ridiculous to play PVP… one shot inti ? Thargaaaaa !.. i get tharga but i don’t want to play with it… like i said, i love chalange, strategy but no free kill and “unkillability”… i have payed for this game : license, premium ships but now i’m stop that, and waiting an other game wich give me the same thing that SC give me at the beginning : challenge, strategy… and i’ll pay for it.

[8292596]

About thar ga, it’s not as broken as a destroyer.

They just stupidly buffed him last patch by giving him an Orion AND a crit buff.  

 

The Matter absorder

Nerf Alien Intuition

And it’s good.

[ORCA1911]

Basically it has a stab field buff mixed with vacuum laser dps and crit buff, but without any debuffs other than you cant aim at some moments…

[39930487]

19 hours ago, JasanQuinn said:

… just coming out and saying "look, we need to earn money .

That is self-explanatory in regard to every F2P game…

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Just now, Swifter43021 said:

About thar ga, it’s not as broken as a destroyer.

But can you… carry your whole team with 1 destroyer while 10 enemy ships are shooting at you and not dying, get plenty of kills, and 1 or 2 shot any intie you see? Thar’ga fly like a tackler, damage like a LRF, evasive like a cov ops, warp like a recon, self heal like an engie, tanky like a destroyer.  If you don’t have any good player on the other side it’s basically a T5 ship in T2. This is just 1 Thar’ga, with 2 good Thar’ga pilot enemy team barely get any points and most disconnect the battle. Dev fix your game or I will continue my slaughter to protest 

[39930487]

… thats an attitude!!! 

[3354571]

I adore how they promote other ships than Thar’Ga now, so it doesn’t look like Thar’Ga is as OP as it is, but in htis scenario, they put good players in ships they are good in and make them have the same results as in Thar’Ga, but you get a Ace into such ship and they will succ balls, but put them into Thar’Ga and once they get handle of it (2-3 days) they get same/better results as experts in their ships.

 

Also, Milf, spawncamping is a very bad thing. At least you could not kill in the enemies’ half of the battlefield. Soemthing like voluntary getting rid of using scatter gun, etc.

[8292596]

 

1 hour ago, Milfeulle said:

But can you… carry your whole team with 1 destroyer while 10 enemy ships are shooting at you and not dying, get plenty of kills, and 1 or 2 shot any intie you see? Thar’ga fly like a tackler, damage like a LRF, evasive like a cov ops, warp like a recon, self heal like an engie, tanky like a destroyer.  If you don’t have any good player on the other side it’s basically a T5 ship in T2. This is just 1 Thar’ga, with 2 good Thar’ga pilot enemy team barely get any points and most disconnect the battle. Dev fix your game or I will continue my slaughter to protest 

Yup that’s because devs were naive enough to think that matter absorber “instant” heal was a good thing.

Matter absorber obviously needs to delay the heal over 10 seconds like everything else.

[8292596]

97 kills in a single PvP ? What the hell  

[3354571]

prolly T1 camp with lrf. in coop you can get over 100 kills easily, and if I recall right, T1 is considered pvp, not coop.

 

Spoiler

credit goes to rennieash

 

[ORCA1911]

The only reason why im not pissed at milf and others is just that

1 hour ago, Milfeulle said:

Dev fix your game or I will continue my slaughter to protest

best protest so far, i kinda had fun going against a god mode ship tho, just wanted to see how good i am xd

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Just now, QACinnamonTroll said:

I adore how they promote other ships than Thar’Ga now, so it doesn’t look like Thar’Ga is as OP as it is, but in htis scenario, they put Also, Milf, spawncamping is a very bad thing.

Must… resist… left click… the purpose of spawn camp is to finish the game quickly to end their suffering, and make Thar’g look bad.

 

Just now, MightyHoot said:

If Thar’ga so OP, why u not in TOP10?

Because the game ends too fast! Whole team at enemy spawn waiting patiently for a ship to pop to feed them synergy… I can add some gameplay videos later to show devs what it’s like to be on the Thar’ga side.