Balance Of F2P and P2W 1/18/17

Ships
1

I would like to start off with this: If you are one who disagrees with every negative post about Star Conflict, leave now.

F2P Definition: "An electronic game that incorporates every aspect of the game with a “Free” standard, meaning anything in said game is able to be acquired  with dedication. 

P2W Definition: "A game that has little “Free” aspects and requires real money to succeed"

Star Conflict is cross between these categories, when this game first came out back in 2013, it was full of laughter and true game-play. It was not the best looking at the time nor the easiest to understand but at least it had a category, like all games it had purchasing aspects but it was about keen on being F2P. Over the last few years it has slowly dividing itself from these categories and the latest update “1.40” has proven this game is running on a tight rope to a  pay to win environment, I have the support of many users who are tired of the issues at hand, the most famous of them all: Engle. He was a GM back before destroyers were introduced and was damn good at his job, he has played this game since release and knows just about everything, he has watch it shrink in the F2P category with me-side by side. But when destroyers came out… with all their firepower and huge HP  he quit, and for a damn good reason: Money Spenders- people who are the first to get them and ruin the entire battlefield with it’s modules. “Star Conflict” has increased this hatred by introducing a much more advanced gun for the R14 “Vigilant” > the “Vacuum Resonance Laser” you might be asking yourself, so what? The Tyrant has a new gun also…  but that is  not my point, my point is that how do you feel getting shot from 8000m and being blown up  in 5 seconds. This gun was my reason to leave the game, you cant just stick a laser on a 100 ton war machine and hope for great feedback, the Static Amplifier for the Vigilant increases its base damage 80% and its range also by 5%, a Vigilant if upgraded and fit well can single handedly  takeout an entire team in survival in seconds, or camp a beacon and prevent all points combining with the Photon and the laser, because the AEO effect it has. I swear if one person says “It is hard to aim, learn to dodge” I am going to scream, do you have any idea how easy it is to aim a Vacuum if the user has 0-10-20 even 30 MS ping(Russian users) and a high DPI mouse? The answer is astronomically simple: its not even hard. Your movement in low ping is down to the .01% accurate and with a laser of that power, >>you will die. << this is just one problem out of 1000 that destroyers have that the developers have ignored. I dont even understand what was going through the devs mind when they created this ship class… they do not belong in the game at all, ever, period. 

The second issue is with the newest ship “Thar’ga” which is made with Alien Technology, I cannot stress how Fuc*ing stupid this idea was, I pity the developer that had the idea. This ship follows NO characteristics of the game what so ever, at all, your slots are given by rank, R15 ships have 9 slots for upgrades of your choice(shield/hull) the Thar’Ga has 11… its a fighter… it is the stupidest thing I have ever seen, it has more firepower at R15 than the every gunship combined, 11 slots for every imaginable build with extras for god knows what. I saw a Thar’Ga earlier as I am writing this with 48,384 estimated surv(with 3x hull 2x shield 3x cap 2x cpu with 26 kills in a rank 15 battle) That is as much as a rank 9 guard. Its a fighter. Not to mention the requirements it takes to get to that level(50 xeno and 50 alien panels for the modules per rank I believe) so there is no way your going to level it up that much until you open your wallet(guaranteed) and its only going to get worse, with the newer releases they will add better-stronger modules that promise to make you a tyrant in PvP but the catch is… you have to open your wallet…

I do not know how to explain it any other way, everyone who disagrees with me can leave, as I said above, you people are blinded by their extortion of you, all they care about is money. In my opinion and Engle’s I do not see this game making it past 2018, I really do not. They have to make so MAJOR changes to this game, people will find out soon enough.

To put it plain because your lazy. : Star Conflict’s developers are extortionists, they bring the bear minimum in changes/revisions to keep the game afloat. Their latest extortion  you ask… >> the “Dart” and “Gargoyle”, basic ships that require real $ to get. They do this by giving them modules uncharacteristic to the games original approach, one of these modules> The “Disintegration Modifier” for the “Gargoyle”  with this and a decent Coil Mortar    you can annihilate everything in your path… neat aye? Well there is a catch, you have to take the chance of buying the parts! Oh jee!  The Thar’Ga is mentioned above^^ read it. 

 

 

_ If you have anything negative to say, leave also. I wont have it here.  _

_ If you think I am a newer pilot based off this one account, your wrong buddy, I have played this game since it’s release.  _

 

2

I see your pain and understand it indefinitely. However, I’ve been playing a LOT of F2P games over the years, War Thunder, World of Warships, Hawken, now Star Conflict, and  all these games have very similar attributes to what your saying.

My point is, we’ve got to figure out what the balance is between F2P and P2W. I used to play a game called Hawken and it had one of the best F2P mechanics I’ve ever seen in the game. Everything was  a very easy grind,  and all you paid for were decals. It was awesome! It’s the only game that truly felt like a full blown F2P only title.

But, suddenly the game company that started it when pretty much bankrupt and Hawken was left rotting for 4 whole years! It wasn’t good.  I DO NOT want Star Conflict to turn into sometime like this!

We’ve ALL got to realize that Gaijin NEEDs to make money, somehow. The problem with Star Conflict is it’s lack of player base which is why I believe they needed to introduce a semi P2W grind.

Now I’m not 100% biased towards Gaijin, if you’ve seen my threads, you’ll know I have issues with this game. But hey, ALL the games I play and you play have some sort of issue.

Also, I’m very happy that the developers pay close attention to the community. Stuff like that is really appreciated by me since other games like Hawken and World of Warships don’t usually do this and it is annoying. And the grind I personally say is pretty easy. I come from War Thunder, and man is Star Conflict so much better at grinding than WT. (Except for R14 destroyer grinding.)

Are there issues that should be fixed like OP ships? Yes of course. However they aren’t “end of the world” issues.   If your mad at all the “OP” ships, go play PVE or Co-op or some other game mode.

I’m not trying to be mean or anything. But if any one of you readers needs to leave SC simply for ships being a bit OP, then you basically have to say that all F2P titles are bad.

3

since early 2013 i’m a player of SC .

a short story .

for a long time , my corp having more 60 players core gamers and now all them leave off the game after the new directions and somes isssues .

match making , problem … may be the most big issue of the game now . the new rank system , range of 5 rank .

*1-5 rank , ship at rank 1 and rank 4 are pretty close . bonus for low ships against higter ships works in this case .

*5-9 rank , its begins to see the gap between each rank , only a few class can still do something on low rank

*10-15 rank , its easy kill low rank ships , what can do a player at low rank and still level up is ship versus a full sp ship or r15 Mk4/mk5 …:frowning:

the others problems , the T4 and T5 destroyers unbalanced . On T3 there’s now many way to encouters destroyer but on T5 we’ve just to wait with some luck an other destroyer from our team deal with it …

the pay wall grinding , until 2014 mid 2015 , a player can unlock stuff and having a chance in 'game but since one year SC take a new move all contents seems to be add only for one purpose : the cash shop . this new move make the game more broken .

dont forget dears devs. , indeed your new systems can make money quickly but a player is frustated by pay wall feature or just be boring by P2W aspect just leave the game for ever with a bad buzz . not sure its the good way for Gaijin at long term .

a player happy , always support a F2P ( items comestics , boost , licence , dlc ) , but more time i spend on the game more time i see people by P2W features or leveling systems.

 

 

 

4

I would say both answer at question one are true, you are free to play this game or not to play, there is nothing like a time limitation or so that would stop you.

P2W is also true especially when they release new stuff that takes either ages to grind or is not accessible without paying. I think we can all agree a r15 Thar’Ga is in stronger then a Spark or a Mjolnir. While you still can play this game, you will have big troubles in e.g. leagues to win against teams that are as good as you skillwise but have paid.

5

I would be nowhere without a license or BD head start with loads of free synergy. I wouldn’t be able to have the fourth crew either, and even today I would have needed to pay for it. With 8 monos a day I was finally able to get a destroyer. 

6

I have been playing this game for 2 years, no money invested, all my prize money went into all of the scanners, hull extenders and some puny bundles that didn’t change much for me, mainly monos gathering. All i have is mainly grinded and thats about it.

As for the op ships issue i keep hearing over and over, yes, the dart, gargoyle, vigilant, tharga etc etc they are dead easy to play and can go very high if given to a person who knows what is what.

The paying part here is mainly an issue because some big spenders just cant wait to buy that little edge and most of them are mediocre players tbh and not even money can help them. It’s okay to buy something new but you gotta ask yourself, is insta-1k$-ing your way of supporting your beloved game or something else tied to a psychological issue. In the end its the players that are at fault and the provider just provides what they want because-monetary statistics says the opposite of what you guys say. (and yes sometimes the providers role is to make sure they dont go overboard but we are talking about the initial cause of all of this semi-mess)

For whom it might concern, get behind the dart or drain it of its energy, plasma arc a garg and disrupt his targeting system, blast vigilants engines, disrupt targeting system, focus fire, as for the tharga, there is a reason why it’s practicing inyoface gameplay, buffs made him do it. Don’t shoot at it when it’s a green ball, slow it down and keep it there, after 8 sec it’s a dead hybrid cannon fodder and nothing can help it. Every ship runs out of tricks after 10 secs by average, there’s only a rare bunch of players that know how to divide their tricks so they always have something to press after those 10secs.

Also, if a player is better than you, there is nothing you can do about it, no matter in what ship he’s in. The complex the ship, the less likely you are going to get him. While the other ships excel with specific player skills, tharga does the survival grade 3x excel. I had no intention to insult anyone nor to be a smarta55, just trying to help on a different perspective.

7

SC seem to going on Planetside 2 way, either pay and have advantage quickly or grind your arse off dealing with disadvantages to keep up with the level. Thats  not healthy for already average playerbase.

8

I think SC will adjust the new ships and nerf them in the course of the year - next xmas we all will be go along with the Ellydium ships like almost normal as we, more or less do with the destroyers now. The rage against the dessys was high at the beginning now it is much less intense…

9

>>I think SC will adjust the new ships and nerf them in the course of the year - next xmas we all will be go along with the Ellydium ships like almost normal as we, more or less do with the destroyers now. The rage against the dessys was high at the beginning now it is much less intense…<<

Yeah, when the ‘F2P’ player finally are at the end of the grind towards them.
That’s why I hate it to think they will nerf them.

The initial dessy was only a problem of adaption, now the endgame dessy are again a gameplay issue from the company(introducing new things in a strange manner making it totally unbalanced).
The problem of the ‘OP’ ships aren’t the ships itself.
It’s the gameplay issue(you know, stats). Just play around with stats and you will see ‘balance’. But the concepts itself are okay. Evolving ships? Could be nice! But if you just throw so much sugar into a cake, don’t you think, that the cake will taste bad? But it isn’t the problem of the cake itself(as it would be good if you would have used the correct amount of sugar).
Another disbalance: Treating the base to play ONLY PvE or PvP, instead of having missions for both/chooseable mode. While the chipmissions was okay(but sometimes OS…), the other events/contracts weren’t good.

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4 hours ago, Lord_Xenon said:

Just play around with stats and you will see ‘balance’.

![:007_2:](<fileStore.core_Emoticons>/emoticons/007_2.png “:007_2:”)

+1

11

On the Tkarga issue - I think there should be the same solution as for Destroyers - a limit per one team. I am terribly annoyed with them in groups of two or four. One Tkarga per team, and you will not have to nerf this marvellous ship. Today I did not have any motivation to play  PVP because of the Thargas. 

On the P2W issue - the same solution. Either one ship perteam or the same amount in every team. And possibly some fines for fighting in too many battles.

On the matchmaking - really - with those Thargas it’s just not possible to win. I am talking HIGH levels, so, please, don’t tell me about the overall low statistics for low rank Thargas. Also, many times I, with my low pilot ranking and win-loss ratio, was put in a battle with the players which occupy, for example, the 5th place in game! I understand this measure shortens the queuing time, but I would better wait for some other opponents. From, like, 10 battles, I won only 2 or so. All those times there were Tkargas, about three of them in the opponent team, whereas my team had NONE.

Estimated end depends on the implementation of my recommendations. IMHO! Sorry for seeming so pompous.

 

12

Quote

On 19/01/2017 at 7:39 AM, HBZK100 said:

But if any one of you readers needs to leave SC simply for ships being a bit OP, then you basically have to say that all F2P titles are bad.

 

What? A bit? Yesterday I played in about ten battles with Tkargas. They gather in groups and you cannot kill them at all. I lost on about 80% of the battles with Targas. I do not call this useful for me - no pleasure, no use at all. So, please… ![:(](<fileStore.core_Emoticons>/emoticons/003j.png “:(”) I did not play the game today. No more of my nerves for the wealthy donaters. As one pilot on this forum said ‘If you kill more than 5 ships in a raw, maybe it’s time to choose another game’. I kill - 5.
MINUS five.
Have some dignity.
PS This P2W began with the sniper Vigilant, and continued with the Gargoyles and Darts. In the past you could deal with those Brokks and VideoCards, and even kill some Sparks. But it is getting less and less realistic to win if you do not donate. Now - another surprise. ![:005:](<fileStore.core_Emoticons>/emoticons/005.png “:005:”)

13

For me, I could deal with all the ships even Vigilant, even though it is pretty OP and I use either ECM or, well, Vigilant most of the time. Vigilant is VERY slow in most cases. BUT this Tharga bs is WAY too much and is literally a one hitter quitter.

How many times have you seen the entire opposing team dc cause of vigilant or any other ship? probably never. But the Tharga is getting people to dc all the time now. This should be more than enough research to determine what’s really going on.

Until then I will fly t3 where the tharga are just another ship compared to t5…

14

Well, don’t expect them to nerf Thar ga before a year. 

Like I said before, in one year, we’ll have only 10 ships availables and all of them are from Ellydium.

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On 19/01/2017 at 7:39 AM, HBZK100 said:

If your mad at all the “OP” ships, go play PVE or Co-op or some other game mode.

Dude, stop it! It’s obvious we pilots come to the game to kill the other humans. I do not see any fun in killing bots, and never have I.
Also, your tone implies you are not against donations. I do understand the money is necessary for their salaries. But, hey, aren’t Vigilants and Darts and Gargoyles and all those dozens of premium ships not enough to get a really decent salary??? How long should they squeeze my brain? Is the player base growing? Maybe they are getting rid of the old players?
PS What’s more - there are only a handful of PvE missions which everyone knows by heart. Unless they have an IQ of 41 and do not remember what they did last time. the bots are stupid and uninventive, they are just dull bricks. So, it’s boring, stop trolling.

16

On 19/01/2017 at 7:11 PM, ORCA1911 said:

 Don’t shoot at it when it’s a green ball, slow it down and keep it there, after 8 sec it’s a dead hybrid cannon fodder and nothing can help it.

Unfortunatelly, in most of the batlles where I lost, there were groups of 2 or 3 Targas. How can you wait until the green sphere disappears? You wait for one of them, and the other kills you in the meanwhile. His partner stands by, waiting for your spare parts.
So, my solution is like the one which was used on the Destroyers, no more than ONE or TWO Targas in a battle. Even two of them are too much when they are together. Especially when you play with randoms. Who is going to slow down the Targas? Nobody, nobody cares about any team work. meawhile your team loses and the score is about 3:30 or less.
PS and, please, don’t start on any squads. With all this milking somebody forgot they were going to make gathering squads easy. Now there are just randoms raped by Thargas.
PS and don’t start on the the low-level crap Targas, I have my own stat on my losses.
ALL IN ALL - Don’t nerf them, just make them rare to meet or make it obligatory for the other team to have as many Targas as the opponent side has.
And DON’t let this happen - when the matchmaking sends you into a battle with the 6th ranked player in the game, while you are only on the 6.800 or 7.900 place. Damn, their win-to-lose ratio is 6.5 while mine is 0.91 (oh, no, after the recent battles it is dropping down).

17

We can’t just limit specific ships everytime they go overboard, nerf is better so they fall in line with the rest.

18

Limit the max amount of slots to 9, cut the damage of the thargkt by 30%, lower the projectile speed to 5000m/s, cut the active time of the matter absorber back to 4 sec. Or dont. T5 is unplayable right now. Pisses me off.

19

42 minutes ago, Scar6 said:

T5 is unplayable right now. Pisses me off.

I am also irritated, but maybe Tharga can help the devs make some money? My proposition was to limit the amount of Thrgas in one battle to one Tharga in one battle. If there is no match, than the Tharga player can wait in a queue for a team which has a Tharga. What do you think?
Ps let them me like those Destroyers which used to be hated by everybody. Also, add big prizes for killing Thargas, like 1 Xeno for 2 Thargas. Everybody will be happy. I would ![:007_3:](<fileStore.core_Emoticons>/emoticons/007_3.png “:007_3:”)
PS Some offtop. Can anybody propose a Jaguar build for killing Thargas on high ranks? the low ranks are rubbish, but the higher ones are a big pain. Here is a discussion on a Jaguar build for killing Thargas. [https://forum.star-conflict.com/index.php?/topic/32605-jaguar-build-for-killing-thargas/](< base_url >/index.php?/topic/32605-jaguar-build-for-killing-thargas/)

20

On 1/18/2017 at 5:55 PM, IFreakinLoveBass said:

If you have anything negative to say, leave also. I wont have it here. 

Hurrdurr I can’t take criticism because muh feelings.

On 1/19/2017 at 0:39 AM, HBZK100 said:

But if any one of you readers needs to leave SC simply for ships being a bit OP, then you basically have to say that all F2P titles are bad.

Literally any multiplayer game will have things that are “OP” at any given point simply because whatever that character or ship is can allow for easier handling of rough situations or wide degrees of flexibility. By them having those it is not by definition OP, but there is a group of ignorant people who think that it is OP and therefore breaks the game, yadda yadda yadda. It’s stupid but this QQ has existed for a long time and will not go anywhere, regardless of whatever multiplayer pvp game you play.

My examples:

  • 2010 competitive TF2: 1 scout, 1 soldier, 1 medic, and 1 demoman can completely wreck literally any team setup out there, but had counters (Pyro). Tried it with a group of friends and we literally would win game after game like Milf and Eug. Still didn’t break competitive TF2 and every game that had that team combo were not guaranteed wins.
  • 2013 competitive DOTA: Alchemist. I don’t need to say any more about that character - if you play Dota 2 you know what I’m talking about (coughcough XBOCT in TI3 coughcough). Got countered with focusing in teamfights and abilities that went through BKB.
  • BLR: M4X rifle, SMG, and AMR could out DPS any other gun out there (and the AMR was the ONLY gun that could OHKO anyone, but required a high grind to the level to obtain it or pay ZEN, hurrdurr muh p2w). Even those guns were amazing, the starter gun that people got FOR FREE could STILL hold it’s own against those other guns. Easily.
  • Combat Arms: G36E, M416 CQB, and P90TR. Vastly outclassed virtually every other gun (over 500 guns) in the armory in the game. Did not guarantee a win every single time nor did it “break the game”, yet those guns were OBJECTIVELY better guns than all the others.

My point? This QQ in SC is nothing new, and it won’t go anywhere. Even if a direct countering weapon to these Ellydium ships were introduced, ignorant players will still find something to complain about.

4 hours ago, inyazserg said:

Dude, stop it! It’s obvious we pilots come to the game to kill the other humans. I do not see any fun in killing bots, and never have I.

And yet we have a PvE community and corps purely dedicated to playing PvE.