[BALANCE ISSUE] Sugestion Frigates at higher Tiers

Bug Report Section Leveling, balance and market
1

Frigates at Higher tiers need some definite love. "I don’t feel like I’m flying a large powerful ship, I feel like I’m flying a slow tin trashcan."

 

So I reached rank 13, and after 100’s of battles in my trusty frig realized something. Tiers 3, 4, and I would guess the coming 5, are well sad. The problem is simply that a Fighter or an inty equipped with Heavy plasma cannons, which with their inate ship bonuses (depending on your empire), can easily attain triple the base damage per hit. And let me tell you those things hit hard even on a frigate, which brings me to:

 

First a little history on my Empire frig which I love dearly. I fly a Garm (T3) mainly for money making and a Ginger Centaur for T4’s, and while I love these ships, I have seriously been considering switching to a fighter command role. The reason is simple at Tiers 3 and 4 the Frigate becomes a big slow tin can and Fighters and inties can easily dismember you within seconds, even at max ship level with a huge buffer and resist tank.

 

Here’s how it’s been happening lately:

 

I’ll be doing my thing, protecting a beacon or a captain, giving bonuses and whatnot and some cloaky will come up behind me Fire at me about 5-10 times with Heavy Plas and my ship goes Poomph. Nothing I can do about it as he disables my frig completely before hand. So basically with this simple setup No frig can kill you,

 

So in leu of this my suggestion is to make frigs back into the powerhouses for support and protection they were back in t1 and t2:

 

* Double the damage of Pulsar modules

* Frigates should have starting resists of at least 50 in every single Resist

* Base Hp on a Frigate should be increassed by 25% minimum for both shield and Hull.

* Main weapon Damage increased 25% instead of 10% (On empire) and 15% on the other factions.

* Special weapon (Torp or Snipe) damage increased by 5k Minimum, (as at higher tiers this weapon does like 3k max with all the resists people are floating usually 2.5k)

* Double the Repair amount of all “Directed” support modules. But add a longer Cool down on the ones that have a cool down.

 

After all these ships are supposed to be big , Powerful, and tough to kill without a team. Currently they are SORELY lacking in all of those aspects at higher tiers.

2

Mhmm, yeah, buff frigates. 

 

 

 

Main weapon Damage increased 25% instead of 10%

You already DO 50% more damage than any fighter and 300% of an interceptor

 

Over and over you show us, you got no clue.

 

PS: where is the forum-wide ignore function?

3

Mhmm, yeah, buff frigates. 

 

 

 

You already DO 50% more damage than any fighter and 300% of an interceptor

 

Over and over you show us, you got no clue.

 

PS: where is the forum-wide ignore function?

Its not just about damage it’s about mechanics in general, If the game was all about damage fighters would rule the skies… Oh wait… they already do… And inties do more damage then a frigate does if set up correctly simply because of their inate 30% crit bonus and the fact that with that you can get about 66% - 75% crit chance on an an Inty can crit almost every single shot. Which means it deals the damage of 8 guns rather then 2. and a fighter does the damage of 10 guns when he crits (but they crit less a lot less). And frigs almost never crit.

 

You really need to look at game mechanics man, and figure in all the cool little mods inties and fighters can use that frigates can’t which when used right make killing frigates a joke.

 

I suggested the increase in main weapon damage to insure that when a frig does hit an inty or a fighter… It Hurts. Because chances are, Frigates wont hit you very often if you are fit and flying your ship correctly. Fighters and Inties should not even try and kill frigates, it should be so painful they wont even bother.

 

Frigates should kill other Frigates. Inties move too fast for us frigs to even bother trying to shoot them, Fighters are a bit easier to hit, but not much. Since fighters and Inties have inate bonuses and mechanics which prevents all but the most skilled sniper or torp controller from killing them, Frigates should have the same defenses against Inties and Fighters, Mechanically speaking.

 

Like the title says its about balance.

4

Stop posting this wrong information in every thread. You are just dense.

 

Interceptor 2 guns

Frigate 6 guns

 

That is 300% more damage. 

 

If an interceptor gets a critical hit, he doubles is damage:

 

Inteceptor with crit = 4 guns

Frigate without crit = 6 guns

 

You still do 50% MORE damage even if the interceptor has 100% crit. And crits ONLY WORK AGAINST HULL, NOT SHIELD.

 

Stop telling lies nonstop.

 

 

 

You really need to look at game mechanics man, and figure in all the cool little mods inties and fighters can use that frigates can’t which when used right make killing frigates a joke.

Yeah, apparently I did look at them, compared to someone else.

5

Stop posting this wrong information in every thread. You are just dense.

 

Interceptor 2 guns

Frigate 6 guns

 

That is 300% more damage. 

 

If an interceptor gets a critical hit, he doubles is damage:

 

Inteceptor with crit = 4 guns

Frigate without crit = 6 guns

 

You still do 50% MORE damage even if the interceptor has 100% crit. And crits ONLY WORK AGAINST HULL, NOT SHIELD.

 

Stop telling lies nonstop.

 

 

 

Yeah, apparently I did look at them, compared to someone else.

 

Your assuming a crit is simply Double damage, it isn’t. It’s more like quadruple. I have an inty I fly on occasion, My Frig with heavy plasma when it hits does somewhere between 2300 and 3000 depending on the other ships resists, If Im lucky and they are fit wrong it’ll hit for 5k or so. It almost never crits. When it does it hits for about 10 -12k (If Im lucky).

 

My inty on the other hand fitted with Crit boosts and Crit damage Boosts and heavy plas, Hits for 3k-7k every single hit almost.

 

So yes, IF a frig crits which it will do on occasion, it’ll hit you for more., However the inty on the other hand crits repeatedly when set up correctly and as far as DPS goes will out DPS a frigate every single time.

 

You forget not every ship has the exact same resists. and lots of other factors figure in to how much damage a shot does to a player. Yes strait up no buffs or bonuses a frigate will do more damage hands down, But add all the buffs and bonuses, the interrupts  the lock down, etc, and the Inty and fighter suddenly become much more powerful then the frigate who can do nothing except sit helplessly disabled for 3-5 seconds while an inty or fighter kills it.

 

Your problem is you don’t think about the wider view. Go play eve online for awhile and you will understand the kind of mechanics and differences and how the slightest little stat difference can determine whether an inty is a pwnmobile, or a failship.

6

Your assuming a crit is simply Double damage,

 

I am not assuming anything. Its fact that crits do double damage. If you take the skill @T2-6 then it does a 50% more and still less than a frigate non-crit.

 

My inty on the other hand fitted with Crit boosts and Crit damage Boosts and heavy plas, Hits for 3k-7k every single hit almost.

a) there are no crit damage boosts

b) by looking at your ships, your interceptor is T1

b) stop making stuff up. are you on drugs?

c) you cant, were never able to and will never be able to do 3000 with a single interceptor hit. never. 

 

Lets get this straight, at T3 a purple asault plasma does 136 dmg per bullet, multiply this with 2 because an interceptor has 2 guns, thats 272 damage.

I hope you can follow so far, because now it gets tricky.

 

3000 / 272 = 11,03.

 

So, even though you claimed your Inteceptor can do up to 7k per hit, even only for 3k damage, you will have to crit for 1100% damage. For 7k thats around 2500%. 

And thats not even considering resistances.

 

STOP.

LYING.

ON.

THIS.

BOARD.

7

I am not assuming anything. Its fact that crits do double damage. If you take the skill @T2-6 then it does a 50% more and still less than a frigate non-crit.

 

a) there are no crit damage boosts

b) by looking at your ships, your interceptor is T1

b) stop making stuff up. are you on drugs?

c) you cant, were never able to and will never be able to do 3000 with a single interceptor hit. never. 

 

Lets get this straight, at T3 a purple asault plasma does 136 dmg per bullet, multiply this with 2 because an interceptor has 2 guns, thats 272 damage.

I hope you can follow so far, because now it gets tricky.

 

3000 / 272 = 11,03.

 

So, even though you claimed your Inteceptor can do up to 7k per hit, even only for 3k damage, you will have to crit for 1100% damage. For 7k thats around 2500%. 

And thats not even considering resistances.

 

STOP.

LYING.

ON.

THIS.

BOARD.

Lols, you obviously haven’t looked at your higher tier modules, there are in fact crit damage boosts (It may actually be an Implant I cant remember right now but I know I’ve seen it and I don’t feel like logging in to check.

 

Look at it like this man, if an inty is as weak as you say it is, and yet can disable and kill a Buffer tank / resist heavy frig with 35k+ Hp in less then 8 seconds. Either:

 

A. The frig needs a buff,

or

B. the Inty and fighter needs a nerf. (Which I DO NOT recomend)

 

Pick one. Because those are your only 2 options.

 

There is a problem with frigates being severely under powered at High T3 / T4. I do not dispute that in T1, T2, and Low T3, they are a bit Op. This post is about High T3 / T4 Frigates. Not about the T1/T2/Low T3 ones.

8

There is a 50% crit damage boost for Fed R6 implant. FYI

9

There is a 50% crit damage boost for Fed R6 implant. FYI

I thought it was something or another, Thanks for the post and clareifying :smiley:

10

I pretty much exclusively fly a Jericho Templar AE Frigate, so I’ll weigh in a bit here. (My win/loss is ~1.60, nothing special)

 

Frigate damage is mostly fine, the only issues I have are:

 - Guided Missile damage is too low to serve as anything other than a finisher. Unless the enemy ship is at 1/2 or 1/3 hull, it probably won’t kill him. (The only exception being shield-tanked Jericho ships which wil pop as soon as the shield is down)

 - The amount of missiles on the missile frigate are abysmal

 - Big missiles feel too weak

 

Using the Jericho frigate as an artillery piece is a nub mistake, it is /horrible/ at this. Damage output is low, and most engagements devolve into a furball very quickly, so teamkills are high.

 

What I find works well, and what I do, is fly forward support with my fleet, utilizing both a hull and armour rep at the same time, with a propulsion inhibitor when the need arises. From just outside the main fight, I engage with assault lasers, to pick off the weakened fighters or force an enemy fighter on the tail of an ally to bail out of the fight.

 

Often I will find myself focused by an enemy fighter or interceptor, sometimes I can kill them, sometimes they can kill me, it is very balanced against a skilled player, except when someone is flying a Deimos 2, in which case I die every time. That fighter has too much tank and my damage output is too low for the fight to even out. I have had a Deimos 2 fly right in front of me, stop, and just sit there and fire, overdrive + hull tank lets the Deimos 2 go more than toe to toe with my frigate.

 

Rough calculations on Deimos 2 effective hitpoints and DPS in overdrive put the hitpoints on par with my frigate, and the damage output a little more than double. Overdrive lasts long enough for a 1vs1 engagement to start and finish.

 

I have yet to play in higher tiers, so I do not know how better/worse frigates become there. Currently I am just saving up and ranking up for the Ira Deus.

11

I thought it was something or another, Thanks for the post and clareifying :smiley:

 

I already said this here, but … yeah

 

I am not assuming anything. Its fact that crits do double damage. If you take the skill @T2-6 then it does a 50% more and still less than a frigate non-crit

12

I already said this here, but … yeah

No what you said was that NOthing increased Crit Damage, The other posted said that in fact an Implant increases it 50%, which means the damage even with your numbers is in fact on par with a frigates (if not superseding it). When you add the Crit bonus + crit Bonus damage and the continuous critical hit factor. Add the disable ability and continuous lock down, and you get EXACTLY what I posted you would.

Even IF it hits for less, the point is that Inties and fighters can take out fully fit and geared Frigs in less the 10 seconds. While the frig has almost no chance of fighting off or killing either a Fighter or an Inty IF they are fit correctly.

 

Hence my suggestions.

13

I’m not sure where the OP got the stats from but I wouldn’t say Frigs are either OP or UP. Truth is (and here I am talking about high Tier 3) my Cerb 2 seems to do alright most of the time. It partly sound like you main complain is based on the lack of ability to deal with small ships when they get around you…fair enough, it’s true but that requires skill in piloting to your location.

 

From here I can figure out the biggest weakness of the Frigs…they need backup. They are not lone wolf ships, Frigates seems to be heavily geared and focused to act in groups. In that case, same as someone can freeze you, they can freeze him. Unfortunately if your teams is full of randoms with brains set to off…you die. But that’s more a mechanic for the ship class. The problem with your suggestion is that you would definitely edging the frigate towards an instant I WIN button. Or, like in WoT, be heading towards a situation where you either go Frig for competitive gaming or you don’t bring much into the situation. I mention World of Tanks as an excellent example of what happens when you give too much advantage to the class with the most armour/hp. And regardless of what you may think, Frigs certainly have a lot of armour available (partly due to HP) for them and a lot of HP.

14

pls stop this nonsense. 

 

 

Frigates at Higher tiers need some definite love. "I don’t feel like I’m flying a large powerful ship, I feel like I’m flying a slow tin trashcan."

 

* Double the damage of Pulsar modules

* Frigates should have starting resists of at least 50 in every single Resist

* Base Hp on a Frigate should be increassed by 25% minimum for both shield and Hull.

* Main weapon Damage increased 25% instead of 10% (On empire) and 15% on the other factions.

* Special weapon (Torp or Snipe) damage increased by 5k Minimum, (as at higher tiers this weapon does like 3k max with all the resists people are floating usually 2.5k)

* Double the Repair amount of all “Directed” support modules. But add a longer Cool down on the ones that have a cool down.

 

After all these ships are supposed to be big , Powerful, and tough to kill without a team. Currently they are SORELY lacking in all of those aspects at higher tiers.

No, they don’t!

15

No what you said was that NOthing increased Crit Damage, The other posted said that in fact an Implant increases it 50%, which means the damage even with your numbers is in fact on par with a frigates (if not superseding it). When you add the Crit bonus + crit Bonus damage and the continuous critical hit factor. Add the disable ability and continuous lock down, and you get EXACTLY what I posted you would.

I said there is no module increasing crit damage. HereI state (before everyone else here), there is a skill increasing it. You are blind to facts, sad.

 

Last try:

Interceptor = 2 guns. 

Crit damage = 200% || Crit damage with implant = 250%

Interceptor damage equivalent with crit AND implant = 5 guns.

Frigate base damage without crit = 6 guns

Frigate damage with crits (yes they can crit too) = 12 guns

 

And crits only count against hull (also saying this the 100th time to you). So all those modules, weapons and implants boosting crit only apply AFTER the interceptor took down the frigates shield of 10k+.

At an average dps of 400 per gun (800ps) taking down the shield alone takes 12 seconds without considering regeneration and resistances.

 

 

 

Look at it like this man, if an inty is as weak as you say it is, and yet can disable and kill a Buffer tank / resist heavy frig with 35k+ Hp in less then 8 seconds.

Wrong.

35000 / 8 = ~4500

No interceptor on earth does 4500 dps.

 

 

 

My inty on the other hand fitted with Crit boosts and Crit damage Boosts and heavy plas, Hits for 3k-7k every single hit almost.

Wrong.

Your interceptor is tier1. I can see it in your ship list. IF any inty could hit for 7k, he would one-shot every other interceptor. However, in reality, dogfights take quite some time.

 

Your level of delusions is quite impressive.

16

I said there is no module increasing crit damage. HereI state (before everyone else here), there is a skill increasing it. You are blind to facts, sad.

 

Last try:

Interceptor = 2 guns. 

Crit damage = 200% || Crit damage with implant = 250%

Interceptor damage equivalent with crit AND implant = 5 guns.

Frigate base damage without crit = 6 guns

Frigate damage with crits (yes they can crit too) = 12 guns

 

And crits only count against hull (also saying this the 100th time to you). So all those modules, weapons and implants boosting crit only apply AFTER the interceptor took down the frigates shield of 10k+.

At an average dps of 400 per gun (800ps) taking down the shield alone takes 12 seconds without considering regeneration and resistances.

 

 

 

Wrong.

35000 / 8 = ~4500

No interceptor on earth does 4500 dps.

 

 

 

Wrong.

Your interceptor is tier1. I can see it in your ship list. IF any inty could hit for 7k, he would one-shot every other interceptor. However, in reality, dogfights take quite some time.

 

Your level of delusions is quite impressive.

Like I keep saying and you keep missing the point, You are counting damage only. A ship does a lot more then damage and there are a lot more factors and variables then just “How many turrets” and direct damage". You don’t seem to comprehend this, or th other game mechanics at play, therefore I can see why you have no idea what I’m talking about and can’t see my point.

 

A ship ONLY does damage if it hits you. And frigates are only going to hit a decent fighter or inty pilot 10% of the time, Vs the fighter or Inty hitting the frig 100% of the time. So unless the frigate does 20,000 DPS, (20k per hit). Your argument is severely flawed. The fact that you can’t understand this (and many many other things I’ve been trying to explain to you) only shows you don’t even have a basic grasp on how the game in general works.

17

Like I keep saying and you keep missing the point, You are counting damage only. A ship does a lot more then damage and there are a lot more factors and variables then just “How many turrets” and direct damage". You don’t seem to comprehend this, or th other game mechanics at play, therefore I can see why you have no idea what I’m talking about and can’t see my point.

Sure, first you say your inty does 3-7k damage, and THEN its me, who talks about damage only. You wiggle your tongue like a snake.

 

I prove you wrong and/or lying over and over, and still you keep posting your misinformation all over the boards.

 

you are a lost cause.

18

Kryos man, just stop posting, you don’t get it and I’m tired of trying to get you to comprehend that an inty hitting a frig 100 times for every 10 times a frig hits an inty / fighter, The Inty / Fighter WILL deal more damage to the frig then the frig deals to the Inty.

 

You don’t seem to realize that a frigs main weapons almost never hit Inties or fighters if they are decent pilots… How many times do I have to explain this to you?

 

Let me try it this way:

 

An inty / Fighter hits a frigate 25 times for 3k (well go with the low damage here) Thats - 75k Damage (and witht he refire rate about 8 seconds maybe less maybe 15 seconds depending on their fit)

A frig hit that same inty 2 times maybe 5 times during that same conflict for say 5k (average damage per hit for a frig) - total damage to the inty or fighter - 10k to 50k

 

Last I checked, 75k is a LOT more then 10k. and 75k is still a lot more then 50k.

 

 

Like I said, You do not understand basic game mechanics or even fights in general, And you’ve never flown a frigate and fight fighters and Inties off You said so yourself, So you don’t have a clue how any of this works anyway. Like Is said man, Stop trolling.

19

Why can’t you hit them? 

Because the weapon? Change to laser or use acc. coil with other proj speed boost.

Because they are in your butt? Then you (your team) are doing something wrong. You are not with a close combat ship (there are players who play frigs as a over sized fighter and they are good at it)

20

Why can’t you hit them? 

Because the weapon? Change to laser or use acc. coil with other proj speed boost.

Because they are in your butt? Then you (your team) are doing something wrong. You are not with a close combat ship (there are players who play frigs as a over sized fighter and they are good at it)

Remember I am talking about T4 here and High T3.

 

  1. Close combat ships generally don’t stick around us frigs, were like the black sheep I average 1250 - 2500 rating every battle in my sniper firig and am ussualy (not always int he top 3), Yet all I ever here are insults and slander about me using a frigate ans snipeing (which takes real skill honestly at T4)

 

You say it’s my team, you might be right, but to this II need to reply… What team?

 

  1. Inties and fighters are very fast, even with lasers you can’t hit them often while they are in close proximity to you circling you and their are plenty of ways for them to avoid the Thruster inhibition modules… The real problem is the fact that both can disable you for about 10 seconds if staggard, which is more then enough time for you to go from 35k EFHP+ to 0 and die, with the setups the experienced Inties and Fighters use. Even the pulsar Mod won’t kill a fighter or an inty if its at full strength when it engages you it can simply disable you, zoom around you plasing you, Ion missile you (Disabling you again) continuing to plas you, Boom you die. And you may not even get a single shot off.

 

Its the reason we need that massive range on our main weapon so that if were paying attention we will see you coming and have at least a few seconds to damage you. Because once you get on top of us generally speaking we are Fraked. And no one is going to babysit us unless were the captain.

 

As I’ve said before also, if purples dropped more often this might not be such an issue because of the stat variances, However with the abysmal drop rate currently, Your lucky to see 1 purple per month. And if its a crappy T2 that happened to drop even though you were playing a T4 mission… Welll… Your entire month of trying to farm that needed purples was just wasted.

 

That’s not fun in my opinion nor fair to the players in the community.