This mode, in my opinion, is a large contributer to people quitting this game. PVP is a freakin’ blast up until you start being thrown in the qeueu for this nightmare mode. Most f2p games do this when they have a map, mode, or game modifier that is divisive in the community and considered “unfun” by a large portion of the player base, especially towards newbies. Why would someone with a fresh-out-the-dock ship with mk1 everything EVER be chosen to command or lead a military group? Why would the guy with 1 hour in real battles be allowed to lead while someone else on his team is a grizzled veteran of 2+ years of war? Just let us turn this mode off in MM, it’s incredibly frustrating and offputting to people like myself who would prefer to get the hang of a game in a low responsibility role where my loss doesn’t screw over multiple other people or ruin THEIR time just because I’m totally new.
If this can’t be done, then would it be possible to include an algorithm that would place the most skilled/heavily upgraded player/ship on the team into command role more often than the guy with 15 PVP games? Or should I just stick to lower tiers?(like I do in most “tiered” f2p games ;_
Also, I left the questions open ended because I love military history and eagerly await all the real world examples of idiots and newbies being given leadership roles, and especially those examples of new leaders actually winning or contributing to victories.
Wasn’t the theory that the MM always chooses from the 3 “best” pilots randomly? However, like with all matchmaking/team setup, the way the MM identifies the “skill” of those pilots will always be a mystery. It’s broken in all modes, so why should it be non-broken in this mode?
Re: “eagerly await all the real world examples of idiots and newbies being given leadership roles”
Well that is an endless list starting at the dawn of time, and extending infinitely into eternity. Just check military history. It’s more than densely populated by idiots and morons.
Re: “examples of new leaders actually winning or contributing to victories.”
Pretty common, at least on the tactical level. Consider that low-ranked officers (lieutenant or such) may well be young and inexperienced, but still be given command over grizzled warrant officers and much more experienced grunts…
Actually, you’d be hard pressed to find an army where tactical (or even strategic) leadership is actually assigned based on experience or skill, and not simply on rank (officer > warrant > grunt). No leadership for the experienced grunt if a green lieutenant is on the team.
Wasn’t the theory that the MM always chooses from the 3 “best” pilots randomly? However, like with all matchmaking/team setup, the way the MM identifies the “skill” of those pilots will always be a mystery. It’s broken in all modes, so why should it be non-broken in this mode?
Re: “eagerly await all the real world examples of idiots and newbies being given leadership roles”
Well that is an endless list starting at the dawn of time, and extending infinitely into eternity. Just check military history. It’s more than densely populated by idiots and morons.
Re: “examples of new leaders actually winning or contributing to victories.”
Pretty common, at least on the tactical level. Consider that low-ranked officers (lieutenant or such) may well be young and inexperienced, but still be given command over grizzled warrant officers and much more experienced grunts…
Actually, you’d be hard pressed to find an army where tactical (or even strategic) leadership is actually assigned based on experience or skill, and not simply on rank (officer > warrant > grunt). No leadership for the experienced grunt if a green lieutenant is on the team.
In real warfare the green and unexperienced but competent lieutenant will listen to the advices of his ensigns and sargeants before making the decision and give the orders.
Same here, an unexperienced captain player will stick to the team and should listen to the advices more experienced players give to him. When I’m not the captain I usually try to defend ours, and give him / her some advices about how a captain should behave. Lots of newb captains just try to stay back, breaking the team in a half (the YOLOS who try to kill the captain, and the captain defenders)
So far I don’t see the need to remove the mode. It is fun, most of the time.
Same here, an unexperienced captain player will stick to the team and should listen to the advices more experienced players give to him. When I’m not the captain I usually try to defend ours, and give him / her some advices about how a captain should behave. Lots of newb captains just try to stay back, breaking the team in a half (the YOLOS who try to kill the captain, and the captain defenders)
An inexperienced captain SHOULD listen to their team, but they don’t. They either hide at the back as you said, or they do something monumentally stupid like bring an LRF from the tier below and then rely on their white lasers and 6K survivability to carry the day.
I’m not saying captains shouldn’t take risks, because we’ve all seen how much damage an aggressive captain in the right ship can do, but I get really frustrated with captains who fly like bots and never even try to fall back when taking fire.
An inexperienced captain SHOULD listen to their team, but they don’t. They either hide at the back as you said, or they do something monumentally stupid like bring an LRF from the tier below and then rely on their white lasers and 6K survivability to carry the day.
I’m not saying captains shouldn’t take risks, because we’ve all seen how much damage an aggressive captain in the right ship can do, but I get really frustrated with captains who fly like bots and never even try to fall back when taking fire.
That is why I said “most of the time” after “they are fun”
I got picked as captain while in a fours man squad in t5 the other day, and I was the ONLY one with three engineers and a tackler in my lineout (we were queueing for sec con con and launched by mistake into PVP). Also I have no idea how I was considered to be one of the best pilots. All three other members of my squad have far better stats than me. I think the algorithm needs to be reviewed…
In real warfare the green, unexperienced and mostly incompetent lieutenant should listen to the advices of his ensigns and sargeants
Fixed. The original version did not match my experience (though that was 30 years ago…). Tbh the Sarge we had was somewhat experienced (well, more than the Louie), but about as stupid as bread. Macho guy, though.
Fixed. The original version did not match my experience (though that was 30 years ago…). Tbh the Sarge we had was somewhat experienced (well, more than the Louie), but about as stupid as bread. Macho guy, though.
Well, I’m not in the military, but my father was a green beret and I have some friends in the army now so that is what they said.
Usually though, today not many people in the military has real experience (fortunatelly)
It is not planned to add this. The matchmaking already chooses the captain among the most effective pilots.
If that’s the case then I’m apparently more effective than most of the playerbase because of 4 rank 4+ PVP games, I’ve played 3 in Combat Recon and been the Commander all three of those times.
Maybe add in a clause that says IF player X has less than (say, 50 PVP matches), player X may not be Commander?
This is really frustrating and I haven’t played PVP since those losses. I know, I know, learn through failures and mistakes, but even if I know what I’m doing, I still wouldn’t want to be the commander because the amount of pressure on me in that position makes me play much worse.
Edit:What class should I be playing as if I’m chosen as commander? What should I be doing? Thanks for the responses, everyone.
U should play ECM. U should check if your team can handle it alone. In that case hide and try not to die. If your people are dying faster than enemy, they cannot handle it alone. hen u have to use your debuffs and fight with em as good as u can.
I think it needs to be a lot choosier. I see too many captains in T3 picked who have low level, weak ships.
Having a T2 ship in your lineup should auto-ban you from being Captain.
Some players don’t want to be captain, don’t give them a way to ensure they will never be. The captain is chosen according to his stats, not what he decide to fly.
I got picked as captain while in a fours man squad in t5 the other day, and I was the ONLY one with three engineers and a tackler in my lineout (we were queueing for sec con con and launched by mistake into PVP). Also I have no idea how I was considered to be one of the best pilots. All three other members of my squad have far better stats than me. I think the algorithm needs to be reviewed…
I agree whole-heartedly, the captain-picking algorithm definitely needs to be reviewed/modified.
Some players don’t want to be captain, don’t give them a way to ensure they will never be. The captain is chosen according to his stats, not what he decide to fly.
I also agree with this statement. Sure, we all have times where we would rather someone else be the captain, but that is part of the game. I have learned through my almost 2 years of playing that you should always be running at least one ship that works as a captain ship (any role you are most comfortable flying, aside from tackler).
Personally, I have found that ECM and gunship are my 2 preferred roles to be as captain, but that is not for everyone. Any role can work as a captain ship (aside from tackler).
Edit:What class should I be playing as if I’m chosen as commander? What should I be doing? Thanks for the responses, everyone.
You will find many different opinions on this. Ships classes I found viable: Guard, Engineer (those with good survivability, such as Styx). Ships I found to absolutely almost never to work are Tackler (as Stealth doesn’t work) and LRF (to squishy for such a non-mobile target - seeing the enemy cap picking a LRF and it’s not Tillo usually signals an insta-win). I have seen players being successful as ECM or even Command (consider 75% dam bonus with overdrive). I feel Gunships and Covops (also greatly benefits from damage bonus) may be risky, though work in the hands of very skilled players. Usually, Recon can work for me, but only if we have the better team (i.e. you can always run away and hide, but that doesn’t help to win). Just make sure you pick something that can withstand a salvo from a CovOps with Orion, and the follow-up Doomsday.
What one should be doing is to check if your team can hold itself (i.e. more kills than enemy) so you know you won’t lose on points. If you feel the enemy is evenly matched or maybe better, you may find it useful to support the team by using your captain damage bonus, which can really make a difference. Do not ever stay so far behind as to split your team, when the enemy doesn’t do the same. If an Engineer, stay close enough to keep as many of your guys in your healing range (and stay close to cover). With guard, try to stay at a distance which allows your weapon to reach the front line (and stay close to cover). If you see your team is starting to lose on points, help them push/kill. I’ve seen very aggressive caps being successfull, but you have to know when you have to retreat to your healers. For me it seems to work best to stay mostly in cover, but close enough to the front to kill enemy strays, and to stay in range to support the own team, while not splitting your team. And I prefer a fast, lost match to a drawn out, lost, slugfest.
I always get annoyed if it starts to become clear my team starts losing on points, but still the cap stays at the back, and keeps several other ships there with him, leaving the players trying to kill the enemy cap, or score kills, hopelessly outmatched. Or if you move in and damage the enemy cap, no-one follows in to finish him off. But the worst is when you were losing on points, then you killed the enemy cap, and you’ve basically won, and then your own cap gets cocky and gets himself killed like 2 seconds before the match ends.
Combat Recon is one of those modes that’s really tricky. With a good team and a good captain, Combat Recon is probably the best mode of the game. But the moment the random captain generator throws up the guy who brought T1 to T5 the match is utterly ruined.
Alas, this also makes it a nightmare to try and balance. You need the best pilots to be captain, but obviously people don’t always want to be forced into being captain.
I think in the first ten seconds , it should be possible to volunteer to be captain. Afterwards if noone volunteers, it is chosen at random according to the current system. At this point though, people can still volunteer, and if the randomly chosen captain clicks yes to someone who volunteers to take his place, then the captain is switched over.
