600k cr vs 40k cr per battle for paying players only.

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You need a premium ship to triple your income on cr because you don’t need repairs and can play on a high level.

Having a license and booster for cr and playing on weekend’s special will give you 230% maybe.

 

That’s >600% which is a little bit too much advantage for just 30€ per month you could pay for your fav games.

From that I would say it’s already pay2win.

 

And don’t forget that the GS hull and GS Scanner are very important to have and more expensive in r15 where you really need to pay 40€ or 100€ once to have a lifetime prem ship and open-space equipment.

 

For that, you get complete singleplayer games like X3-Reunion, etc which may also offer a month or two with fun.

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I recommend Rockwell if ye really wanna spend money in T5 OS. Rockwell and spat scan.

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12 hours ago, TheDarkRedFox said:

I recommend Rockwell if ye really wanna spend money in T5 OS. Rockwell and spat scan.

A board game? and spat scan is UPS-packet tracer?

^{This is what I am looking forward to: http://store.steampowered.com/app/392160/X4_Foundations/}

Fighting is good occassionally, but boring over time. The money is for all games I play, not just for SC and I limit it by the amount I spend for the internet provider.

EDIT: Especially if it is always-the-same prem ship you already have.

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30 minutes ago, Sola_Evoli said:

This is what I am looking forward to: http://store.steampowered.com/app/392160/X4_Foundations/

Ah yes, Galaxy On Fire 2. I remember that game being really fun. XD

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1 hour ago, Sola_Evoli said:

You need a premium ship to triple your income on cr because you don’t need repairs and can play on a high level.

Having a license and booster for cr and playing on weekend’s special will give you 230% maybe.

 

That’s >600% which is a little bit too much advantage for just 30€ per month you could pay for your fav games.

From that I would say it’s already pay2win.

 

And don’t forget that the GS hull and GS Scanner are very important to have and more expensive in r15 where you really need to pay 40€ or 100€ once to have a lifetime prem ship and open-space equipment.

 

For that, you get complete singleplayer games like X3-Reunion, etc which may also offer a month or two with fun.

Instead of calculations, I will give you an example. So I have a non-prem account, on which I have almost all ships maxed out (I am missing 6 normal ones, SP ships and 4 destroyers, that I am not interested in building). I play this account occasionally, basically to check theories like you just wrote here. Now, please explain, how I was able to still have 59 million credits on that account (last weekend I blew ~20 millions on procyon and some modules, because why not) and it climbs up, instead of going down?

I don’t see many of premium ships in R15 PvP (maybe Spark, Karud sometimes Brokk or Rockwell) - they are in strong minority. 

 

Now to your calculations. You are assuming you will suck at this game and you will be dying all the time, so that 300k from PvP game will go for 210k of repairs + 10-30k of ammo. So if you are really bad at PvP you will break even on average. So you are saying that to overcome that you need to purchase licence and boosters and whatever else. Why not learn how to play? If you die once per game, that’s only 70k gone. If you don’t die - that’s just ammo cost (which premium ships are experiencing as well). If you really suck at PvP, why not earn the credits in other modes? Make a group of 4 players, learn how to cooperate, you can farm defense contract in few minutes for half a mill per run. Or do R8 Coop (1-2 minutes/game). Or go to open space.

If you are talking about spending money - I’m always saying that if you want to spend a $15 on this game, get a Spatial Scanner and a Rockwell (same as **[TheDarkRedFox](< base_url >/index.php?/profile/242418-thedarkredfox/ “Go to TheDarkRedFox’s profile”) **said - no need to spend 100€, also extended hull is sometimes available for credits, but it’s not actually needed at all). While doing the OS missions (which will bring you around 1 million credits for them only) you will get few extra millions from containers (and that income is not affected by license or boosters). So instead of your calculated 20 hours, you can get that money in 20… minutes. 

From my experience credits are not a problem in the long run. Basically that’s why PvE exists. And Open Space. And Co-op. Even with premium licence it would be impossible to break even with getting your dessie/jaguar/thar’ga killed 3 times per game. Purchasing premium ships, which are usually weaker than the normal ones and will die in PvP will kill all the fun (i.e. Mammoth vs Naga, Black Dragon vs Archdragon or Golden Eagle vs Falcon-M). 

 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, niripas said:

 And Co-op.

Nice joke, the only mode were you loose credits after you died once in a destroyer (reward 130k, repair for destroyer 110k + 45k ammo = - 35k total)

1 hour ago, niripas said:

If you don’t die - that’s just ammo cost (which premium ships are experiencing as well).

Nah not really, +40k credits mostly compensates the ammo costs

1 hour ago, niripas said:

From my experience credits are not a problem in the long run. Basically that’s why PvE exists. And Open Space. And Co-op. Even with premium licence it would be impossible to break even with getting your dessie/jaguar/thar’ga killed 3 times per game. Purchasing premium ships, which are usually weaker than the normal ones and will die in PvP will kill all the fun

My experience is totally different, I always hover between 0cr and 60kkcr (mostly around 10kkcr) and still have a lot of stuff I can/want to buy. The repair costs in r15 PvP can easily eat up or at least slow down your progress drastically and the difference in reward is often huge between normal and premium ships because of that (which sucks because most OP ships *hust* TharGa are non premium).

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1 hour ago, John161 said:

Nice joke, the only mode were you loose credits after you died once in a destroyer (reward 130k, repair for destroyer 110k + 45k ammo = - 35k total)

You die in Co-op? How? 

Quote

Nah not really, +40k credits mostly compensates the ammo costs

Ok, you are right here.

Quote

My experience is totally different, I always hover between 0cr and 60kkcr (mostly around 10kkcr) and still have a lot of stuff I can/want to buy. The repair costs in r15 PvP can easily eat up or at least slow down your progress drastically and the difference in reward is often huge between normal and premium ships because of that (which sucks because most OP ships *hust* TharGa are non premium).

Well yes - that’s why other modes exist, or events like the last one.

As I said before - I agree that repair costs are on the high side, however I just don’t see the exploitation of premium ships in T5 PvP - they are still a minority.

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6 hours ago, niripas said:

You die in Co-op? How?

Quite simple, just don’t pay.attention. what happens in the battle while doing other stuff.

6 hours ago, niripas said:

Well yes - that’s why other modes exist, or events like the last one.

As I said before - I agree that repair costs are on the high side, however I just don’t see the exploitation of premium ships in T5 PvP - they are still a minority.

True, if onw wants to grind in PvE or Open Space, I just don’t like that economy determines how you should play and also gets somewhat used for balancing (e.g. Destroyer), which gives players with a premium license somewhat of an advantage.

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10 hours ago, niripas said:

From my experience credits are not a problem in the long run. Basically that’s why PvE exists. And Open Space. And Co-op. Even with premium licence it would be impossible to break even with getting your dessie/jaguar/thar’ga killed 3 times per game. Purchasing premium ships, which are usually weaker than the normal ones and will die in PvP will kill all the fun (i.e. Mammoth vs Naga, Black Dragon vs Archdragon or Golden Eagle vs Falcon-M). 

John161 said:

My experience is totally different, I always hover between 0cr and 60kkcr (mostly around 10kkcr) and still have a lot of stuff I can/want to buy. The repair costs in r15 PvP can easily eat up or at least slow down your progress drastically and the difference in reward is often huge between normal and premium ships because of that (which sucks because most OP ships *hust* TharGa are non premium).

100k cr - repair costs - ammo costs = about 40-60k cr.

A destroyer has 90k cr repair costs if you die once and it totally eats your 100k cr away (r8 destroyer games).

 

But because of that I don’t even use my Archon anymore and are only playing with my single prem ship or r15 Thar’Ga ship for xenocrystals … after some time you miss the choices you had before (using interceptors inbattle or a frigatte in open space) - the choices you are now discouraged from.

 

For players with your 60m cr and already maxed out ships, it could be a period which passes over.

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4 hours ago, John161 said:

True, if onw wants to grind in PvE or Open Space, I just don’t like that economy determines how you should play and also gets somewhat used for balancing (e.g. Destroyer), which gives players with a premium license somewhat of an advantage.

If you die in dessie in PvP 2 times you will lose money licence or not. Well I cannot say that I agree or disagree with economy in this game, but it somehow forces you to play different modes. It makes it an inconvenience to break even, but on the other side it gives you options to earn credits in different ways. Prem ships that are available for free from time to time (like brokk) make awesome candidates for credit milking PvE machines. And considering that one run of Ariadne’s Thread was giving you 2 million credits per game last weekend (which is 6 times more than standard PvP game) it’s hardly a grind. Same goes with specops - 700k-1.5 million per 3 minutes game? PvP was always a least effective way of earning credits, btw. 

 

4 hours ago, Sola_Evoli said:

100k cr - repair costs - ammo costs = about 40-60k cr.

A destroyer has 90k cr repair costs if you die once and it totally eats your 100k cr away (r8 destroyer games).

 

But because of that I don’t even use my Archon anymore and are only playing with my single prem ship or r15 Thar’Ga ship for xenocrystals … after some time you miss the choices you had before (using interceptors inbattle or a frigatte in open space) - the choices you are now discouraged from.

 

For players with your 60m cr and already maxed out ships, it could be a period which passes over.

Same here. A single PvE/SpecOps will cover multiple PvP loses. 

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5 hours ago, niripas said:

Same goes with specops - 700k-1.5 million per 3 minutes game? PvP was always a least effective way of earning credits, btw. 

Where most players die without any dupe?

 

I will try. but spec-ops all players die without killing the alien ship asfar as I remember it was never defeated when I played.

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6 minutes ago, Sola_Evoli said:

Where most players die without any dupe?

 

I will try. but spec-ops all players die without killing the alien ship asfar as I remember it was never defeated when I played.

If you have a destroyer - do a defiler. People are looking for a wing in the global chat or trade chat. Never go with randoms. Sometimes they will announce a defiler farm - usually 15 in a row for fulfilling the quest - you can join them for few. 

Regarding Destroyer - T3 is doable with randoms on LRF. T4 and T5 require coordinated group of gunships/destroyers. First message you will have after joining such wing is “make sure you have enough dupes”.

 

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Without license, I would have made negative.

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48 minutes ago, Sola_Evoli said:

Without license, I would have made negative.

How often did you die in this battle(more then 3times is to much)? And also you don’t gain much in any game if you get defeated.

 

Also a CovertOps is no Long Range Fighter so don’t play it with 3.5km weapon range also half of you equipment (Reactor overload and Plasma arc) are for close range combat which makes the absurd high weapon range even more absurd. I also wouldn’t recommend two Collision Compensator, one is imo enough. (But this topic is not for advice on how to fit ships)

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1 minute ago, John161 said:

 And also you don’t gain much in any game if you get defeated.

actually in pvp there is almost no difference in income between lost and won games… 

[xXThunderFlameXx]

Honestly with a build like that you just ruined any chance of credibility, you stepped way past the line with those two collision compensators, I’m afraid to ask about the command build.

Still, I play with Ellydium ships, die once or twice every few games and I don’t pay that much for repairs even in T5, I get it that you’re not too good but when dying enough to pay as much for a destroyer or alien ship then something is definitely wrong, or probably you did die as the destroyer, probably because of the bad build but I’m just speculating at this point.

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when making this screenie, I just added the 2 collision compensators for microwarp trial then noticed that it wasn’t a microwarp-ship ”)

I wanted to try if I could microwarp into someone and kill him using myself as rocket … but it seems that collision compensators deduct damage for both participants or not?

 

7 hours ago, xXThunderFlameXx said:

Still, I play with Ellydium ships, die once or twice every few games and I don’t pay that much for repairs even in T5, I get it that you’re not too good but when dying enough to pay as much for a destroyer or alien ship then something is definitely wrong, or probably you did die as the destroyer, probably because of the bad build but I’m just speculating at this point.

I actually got Waz’Got now, but it will take time until I get the weapons and gravi-wave with it.

Also build isn’t the only thing to determinate win/loss - it’s the difference of an elite vs non-elite ship or elite-items vs normal ones.

 

But back to topic, PvP isn’t the most effective part, except you buy boosters and a license because then searching for trophies will take more time than it’s worth.

It’s the net-gain without repair/ammo which is way lower and makes PvP bad.

[xXThunderFlameXx]

15 hours ago, Sola_Evoli said:

when making this screenie, I just added the 2 collision compensators for microwarp trial then noticed that it wasn’t a microwarp-ship ”)

I wanted to try if I could microwarp into someone and kill him using myself as rocket … but it seems that collision compensators deduct damage for both participants or not?

 

I actually got Waz’Got now, but it will take time until I get the weapons and gravi-wave with it.

Also build isn’t the only thing to determinate win/loss - it’s the difference of an elite vs non-elite ship or elite-items vs normal ones.

 

But back to topic, PvP isn’t the most effective part, except you buy boosters and a license because then searching for trophies will take more time than it’s worth.

It’s the net-gain without repair/ammo which is way lower and makes PvP bad.

Uh, no matter the collision reduction, you will instantly die from a microwarp(if you’re going fast enough) with the exception of Tai’Kin , if you use the ESS and teleport you can block all that damage but you will be stunned for a little, without it it would also die instantly.

Also, if anything, the build is one of the most important factors and it can allow a regular ship to beat a premium one(even the ones with special abilities but the regular ships will get some too), teamwork also makes a huge difference.

PvP is better for synergy and bragging about stats, PvE is for money, a fail-safe(mostly) method of gaining back your loses and then diving back into the hell that PvP is, if you aren’t too good at the game you can try some skilless tactics but I wouldn’t recommend them if you value your reputation.