Guys, please ignore Kostyan, I would be ornery if I was a middle aged person living in a crappy apartment with no job and no girlfriend. anyways, responding to him will only weaken this suggestion and it’s not even reasonable to pretend that he is half knowledgeable on this subject seeing as he hardly has any friends to talk to.
People use to say i Live in a basement at my parents house, so i guess this is a progress 
People use to say i Live in a basement at my parents house, so i guess this is a progress
yeah well your parents apartment doesn’t have a basement so that would explain why…
yeah well your parents apartment doesn’t have a basement so that would explain why…
Kato, just shut the xxxx up. If YOU don’t have any ideas to make the game better, then xxxx off.
Kato, just shut the xxxx up. If YOU don’t have any ideas to make the game better, then xxxx off.
-1
I have played many online games, even mmos and know the taste of grouping up with friends for pvp. It is definitely something that has to be experienced.
However I strongly disagree with suggestions that propose getting 3+ squads back in Random PVP - Skirmish.
In current match maker, a 4 man squad will be fighting against another 4 man squad and in return give very poor experience to the people that are not in those squads by simply causing the annihilation of those. It does not really matter if you are an excellent pilot or not, if a 4 man squad decides killing you, they do - all you can do is delay by cloaking or warping.
Also this will most probably cause long queue times for people in squads, leading to disappointment.
If the match maker is changed to be random, it will cause the same problems in a far greater scale. (Except for the fact that squad queues would probably be shorter.)
There are the options of Custom Battles, Leagues and Dreadnought battles for the squad experience that you get placed against another squad. There is only one place with some kind of ladder (Pilot Rating) for people who queue for pvp alone.
Yes, Custom Battles reward nothing but this suggestion is for t5 and the need for synergy and credits will most probably be at minimum for players that fight at those ranks.
If the main aim of 3+ squads in pvp is to have friends on your side and fight against another formidable opponent (another squad of same size), I believe those 3 options to be sufficient.
If the main aim of 3+ squads in pvp is to farm rating/kills/wins while bashing those that are not in a squad, then that is a huge threat to the experience of solo players.
This is a purely biased opinion of a solo pvp player that has seen the gameplay without 3+ squads and like it that way. I can definitely guess how great it would be to form a 4 man squad and destroy others but I can definitely guess how upsetting that would be for solo pvp players aswell. I also can not give you pinpoint accurate percentages like the OP about the number of players that want or oppose this change but these are my few cents.
-Oh and I especially oppose this suggestion because I exclusively play r15 pvp and would hate to get my butt kicked even more than usual by big squads.
Guys, we can’t talk about whole T5 due to matchmaker issues: 13 rank ships (which is still T5) can be balansed against 10-11rr ships. And that’ll cause pain, defeat, butthurt and many-many new threads “SQUADS DESTROYED RANDOM PvP AGAIN!!!11!1”
Thats why you need concrete your suggestion. Smth like: “Please come back 4 man groups for pilots have only 15 rank ships in their setups”.
If the main aim of 3+ squads in pvp is to have friends on your side and fight against another formidable opponent (another squad of same size), I believe those 3 options to be sufficient.
So you have no friends, and thus you don’t see why anyone would want to play with friends?
Let me just shoot down your arguments here.
The three options you present are Leagues, Custom Battles and Dreadnoughts. Allow me to introduce my friends Jim and Bob.
Leagues - Jim, Bob and I can’t play together because we aren’t online when the league is running. Also, Jim is barely out of T2 and would be slaughtered.
Dreadnoughts - Jim and Bob aren’t in my Corp. Also, Jim is barely out of T2 and would be slaughtered.
Custom Games - We want to play against real people, not bots.
So none of your suggestions are valid.
So you have no friends, and thus you don’t see why anyone would want to play with friends?
Let me just shoot down your arguments here.
The three options you present are Leagues, Custom Battles and Dreadnoughts. Allow me to introduce my friends Jim and Bob.
Leagues - Jim, Bob and I can’t play together because we aren’t online when the league is running. Also, Jim is barely out of T2 and would be slaughtered.
Dreadnoughts - Jim and Bob aren’t in my Corp. Also, Jim is barely out of T2 and would be slaughtered.
Custom Games - We want to play against real people, not bots.
So none of your suggestions are valid.
Let me explain;
I have and still making friends. I have very simply and quite obviously stated that I am fully aware why people would like to play with squads - Please read again. I also stated very clearly that what I typed was quite biased. It is a reasonable thing to have 3+ squads in random pvp but it is also a maiming situation for those who play solo.
“Jim and Bob not being online when leagues are active” is a reasonable statement - I agree.
“Jim being barely out of t2” is irrelevant.
“Jim and Bob being in different corporations” is a minor problem by getting them in your corporation or by joining theirs. If Jim and Bob are happy in their different corporation, that could mean they would rather not play with you but with their corp-mates. Same goes if you are the one being happy in your corporation, not joining theirs.
“Jim being barely out of t2” is irrelevant.
“Custom games and how you want to play against real people, not bots” makes no sense. You get your 4 man squad ready, get them into the custom battle and find another 4 man squad to join in your custom battle. This way you get absolutely no bots and a perfect battle where you choose the map, battle style (as in beacon - team deathmatch - recon) and the number of players that gets to play with you.
Hope this post clears your confusions, have fun.
Or just add 4-man squads back to everything but have a queue option (defaulted to on) that makes it so that you either encounter squads above two people or not.
if you cant handle squads in t5, you probably should not play there yet anyway, and rather try to fill up lower ranks.
the thread is exclusively about R13-R15 squadding.
If you personally, as player, think, that veterans destroy your game experience, or squads destroy your game experience, or anything else destroy your game experience, think long and hard whether you probably just need a different approach, or try to use this “to learn”, especially with the thought: you may think this now, but what happens once you get there, that you can compete?
because honestly, beginner friendlyness has improved a lot. by now, most matches are lost because players simply do not know how to awake the team spirit or play without actually knowing their roles even high ranked. especially since destroyers basicly allow large defensive fleets, but then it seems like all just stand there and shoot straight, wondering what to do.
after all, some things are hard to learn by tutorial - at least we now have tutorials - and better learned through seeing someone doing it. even somtimes, in the enemy team, to you.
fact is, small team games are growing, and SC is the only one i know of running in the other direction.
fact is, larger groups usually are - as kosty said - usually smaller populations, but group players also play more hardcore.
finally, it is true, many people do not directly care about squads, but the lack of them actually still influences their activity.
not everybody stopped playing, not everybody writes in forums, and not everybody wants squads back as they were.
also treating the players out there like a wast ocean, which will constantly replenish the player numbers is ridiculously wrong thinking, its true for a lot of products, but not games. games either grow, become classics or are forgotten and fail. sometimes however they fail slowly, because they are even successful doing it wrong.
i want squads back, but i want them properly done. no overengineered matchmaking rules. proper rewards. proper incentives.
just a straight implementation would do it, is fine.
dont have to be for me, like they were before. but i would take even that like it was.
atm. most games i join are usually predetermined anyway. i really do not see, what the difference of squads really was. imho, anyone blaming squads for anything, just made up excuses, sorry.
and these excuses run in a feedback loop.
oh yeah and kosty, i get what you are saying. and i still dont agree with your conclusions.
i do however, agree with your predisposition against epeen whores who have carry stats and talk like they know stuff, but thats a whole different liga, not everybody who squads up is like that - it was only the squad system we had in the last years mostly benefitted those.
for sure, playing back in the times t4&t5 were one queue, game after game against the ESB death squads, even if we lost almost every game, was a really teaching and fun time. of course we also complained, but it quickly made us realize, all we had to do is figure out how to play like that aswell.
but whatever, i dont want to lead this discussion here, i was just giving you your own medicine for a change.
while a game should protect players who still learn the game, it should not play carebear forever.
Also you can add the 4 man squad for T5 only, but make them 10% slower, 10% less shield/hull resistance… Only to compensate the ability to make coordinated attacks on random players. And those matches shouldn’t count on the 4 man squad player stats. Who wants to see their stats sink?
+1 for the squads. Give us back the ability to play with our friends in skirmish.
the end all end game of this is to promote teamwork. reducing squads down to 2 players in the lower tiers maybe beneficial to new players but new players are not what you ant to find in t5 so the reduction in t5 squadding is counterproductive there. please bring back 4 player squadding in t5.
All squads stuff is better to keep in one place for now
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