Communications priority, (Voice chat.)

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21

The namedropping of VoIP programs was a very minor part of my argument. I’m opposed to the idea of integrated voice chat on the premise that it does not make people into a better unit. People are cohesive because they work together on a regular basis, not because of voice chat (that’s putting the wagon in front of the horse.)

The deeper reason of why I’m against it (going against my “show, don’t tell” policy) is because it would take programming hours away from the rest of the game when the problem is something that players can solve on their own: getting into corporations and working as a team. Playing solo has severe limitations (hint: this is intentional) and the metagame is geared toward founding corporations, shared commitment, and coordination/cooperation with people who you know and who know you. That’s how average players become good players, how good players become better players, and how better players gain star power and demoralize the other team before they’ve fired a shot.

Furthermore, you better believe I will channel my inner Foreigner when I’m on your team and I’m not even a tenth as bad as what other people will be.

I still don’t understand why not. How doesn’t voice communication make a team work better together as a unit. Vocal communication is the fastest and most efficient form of communication. Why wouldn’t it make us a better unit? I don’t get it… Also, on the programming note; There are allot of updates coming up. This game is still in the beta stage. There are allot of things being added. It doesn’t necessarily need to be added right now, it can wait till after the next update. There are many less important things being added that take a long time. This is far more important than “ship color schemes.” for example. It is something necessary in the game, and not everyone has to use it. It is necessary and it helps the team for many reasons. A team can feel more like a team if they can verbally communicate with each other. The team can alert each other to attacking ships, or organize a strategic attack on the enemy. And with the other side using it, it would add a whole new layer of strategy and depth to the game play. Overall, its a good investment.

22

The specialization of ship roles has done much to discourage solo heroes. Squads aren’t always necessary (though they’re hugely advantageous), but teamwork is an absolute must.

 

As a member of a corporation, my bias is geared towards Treezus’s argument. Yes a channel for efficient communication is important, but integrated voice chat brings up a bunch of problems. The potential solutions to harassment, as mentioned above, also require time for the system to gather enough information. Since the community is small (at the moment) and we are still in beta, voice chat is likely a very low priority.

I still kinda disagree. On the harassment note, that can easily be taken care of via public muting. The player, if he/she has a record of harassment, can be muted from the entire voice chat server. I agree, the community is small as of now, and it would take a bit of time. I am torn between my own experience and frustration with the lack of communication, and your arguments. Both are valid in there own way. I really don’t know… I guess it doesn’t have to be added now, but it should be on the list of things to add in future updates for sure.

23

I still don’t understand why not. How doesn’t voice communication make a team work better together as a unit. Vocal communication is the fastest and most efficient form of communication. Why wouldn’t it make us a better unit? I don’t get it… Also, on the programming note; There are allot of updates coming up. This game is still in the beta stage. There are allot of things being added. It doesn’t necessarily need to be added right now, it can wait till after the next update. There are many less important things being added that take a long time. This is far more important than “ship color schemes.” for example. It is something necessary in the game, and not everyone has to use it. It is necessary and it helps the team for many reasons. A team can feel more like a team if they can verbally communicate with each other. The team can alert each other to attacking ships, or organize a strategic attack on the enemy. And with the other side using it, it would add a whole new layer of strategy and depth to the game play. Overall, its a good investment.

This:

<Enter Players>

Player 1: Alright everyone, we’re going to go for B and C beacon. Anyone got an engi?

Player 2: That’s a terrible strategy. Everyone go for B beacon only and branch out from there.

Player 1: No, that’s a terrible idea. Go for B and C everyone!

Player 3: I have an engi!

Player 1: Great, get on that en–

Player 2: No, you’re splitting everyone! Everyone just go to B!

Player 1: Ignore that guy everyone, go to B and C!

<Game Starts>

Player 4 (me): WELL I’M HOT BLOODED, CHECK IT AND SEE! I GOT A FEVER OF A HUNDRED AND THREE!

Player 1,2,3,5,6,7: Shut up! Shut the xxxx up!

Player 2: Ignore him everyone, go to B only!

Player 8: Добрый вечер :slight_smile:

Player 1: No! Go to B and C!

Player 3: Guys, I’m heading to B! Where’s my backup?

Player 1: They’re massing at C, you gotta get over there to heal!

Player 3: You got it!

Player 2: No! Stay at B! 5 and 6, go to A!

Player 5: Nah, I’m good.

Player 2: God, my team are Aces!

Player 4: JUST A SMALL TOWN GIRL LIVIN’ IN A LONELY WORLD!

Player 8: Мне это не нравится :frowning:

24

This:

<Enter Players>

Player 1: Alright everyone, we’re going to go for B and C beacon. Anyone got an engi?

Player 2: That’s a terrible strategy. Everyone go for B beacon only and branch out from there.

Player 1: No, that’s a terrible idea. Go for B and C everyone!

Player 3: I have an engi!

Player 1: Great, get on that en–

Player 2: No, you’re splitting everyone! Everyone just go to B!

Player 1: Ignore that guy everyone, go to B and C!

<Game Starts>

Player 4 (me): WELL I’M HOT BLOODED, CHECK IT AND SEE! I GOT A FEVER OF A HUNDRED AND THREE!

Player 1,2,3,5,6,7: Shut up! Shut the xxxx up!

Player 2: Ignore him everyone, go to B only!

Player 8: Добрый вечер :slight_smile:

Player 1: No! Go to B and C!

Player 3: Guys, I’m heading to B! Where’s my backup?

Player 1: They’re massing at C, you gotta get over there to heal!

Player 3: You got it!

Player 2: No! Stay at B! 5 and 6, go to A!

Player 5: Nah, I’m good.

Player 2: God, my team are Aces!

Player 4: JUST A SMALL TOWN GIRL LIVIN’ IN A LONELY WORLD!

Player 8: Мне это не нравится :frowning:

What makes you think that doesn’t happen in chat either. This is where team work comes in. Also, to avoid larger scale disagreements, the voice chat could be limited to squads. So each squad of players communicates with each other, therefore eliminating large scale confusion. Problem solved.

25

This:

<Enter Players>

…

So good  :lol:

26

:stuck_out_tongue:

27

What makes you think that doesn’t happen in chat either. This is where team work comes in. Also, to avoid larger scale disagreements, the voice chat could be limited to squads. So each squad of players communicates with each other, therefore eliminating large scale confusion. Problem solved.

It doesn’t happen in chat because chat isn’t real-time and it’s much easier to ignore. If you look closely, I wasn’t just making a joke: every single person in that group contributed to the problem in a small way, including #3 and #7, and I didn’t even bring up the worst offenders (the forum censoring mechanism would have devastated them.) It’s why the concept of throwing random people blindly into the same group falls out the window.

More often than not, you’re going to see the integrated voice chat as a nuisance rather than being helpful and you’re going to turn it off. When enough people turn it off, it stops being effective to the people who still use it.

That’s why this problem is solved by the players rather than the devs: form corporations, get a VoIP server, work together that way.

28

It doesn’t happen in chat because chat isn’t real-time and it’s much easier to ignore. If you look closely, I wasn’t just making a joke: every single person in that group contributed to the problem in a small way, including #3 and #7, and I didn’t even bring up the worst offenders (the forum censoring mechanism would have devastated them.) It’s why the concept of throwing random people blindly into the same group falls out the window.

More often than not, you’re going to see the integrated voice chat as a nuisance rather than being helpful and you’re going to turn it off. When enough people turn it off, it stops being effective to the people who still use it.

That’s why this problem is solved by the players rather than the devs: form corporations, get a VoIP server, work together that way.

I get where your coming from, and its a very good point. But take Planetside 2 for example. Its integrated voice system is working great. Whatever they do to make it work so well we should try to emulate in Star Conflict. Almost everyone uses it, and it is a large part of the game. And, instead of “throwing random people blindly into the same group,” the voice chat would be limited to squads. Because squads are made from friends lists. And obviously friends get along  and think somewhat the same. So voice chat I think would work best in squads. From what I have heard, it will not work server wide  it will only work within squads. What do you think?

29

I get where your coming from, and its a very good point. But take Planetside 2 for example. Its integrated voice system is working great. Whatever they do to make it work so well we should try to emulate in Star Conflict. Almost everyone uses it, and it is a large part of the game. And, instead of “throwing random people blindly into the same group,” the voice chat would be limited to squads. Because squads are made from friends lists. And obviously friends get along  and think somewhat the same. So voice chat I think would work best in squads. From what I have heard, it will not work server wide  it will only work within squads. What do you think?

So Ventrilo/Mumble/Teamspeak/Skype solves that problem. Takes a minute to get any of those programs and another minute to enter the same server (including the TeamSpeak specifically made for Star Conflict.) You don’t need integration there; you only need it when you’re getting completely random people together for a game and you only have 30 seconds to react.

30

As long as there is mute, voice chat is good

31

As long as there is mute, voice chat is good

yes… but its not as simple as that…

32

looking at things cynically has it’s uses but if you ignore certain truths and focus on isolated assumptions, you won’t paint a realistic picture.

 

truth is, people hate losing. it’s a built-in trait for human beings, even an infant hates losing. and from that we as a species have developed the ability to adapt, just google “adapt to win” and see for yourselves how it covers everything from sports to business to the armed forces. that says something about us.

 

take T2 long range snipers for example. on newbie sides you can find upwards of 4 snipers spawn camping sometimes. but these guys won’t last. they’ll change because they’ll start to notice how often they lose and how they routinely end up in the bottom half of the scoreboard. these players don’t have to be the best gamers to work out why and recognize a need to change.

 

the same truths will apply to public voice comms.

 

communication between strangers with a shared objective needs to be approached differently than say between corp mates. you don’t get to boss people around nor will good ideas get your team far because well … you’re strangers.

 

but that doesn’t nullify the benefits of comms. coordination is an end product, information is the key to coordination and among strangers in random teams that’s what it’s all about.

 

you don’t tell people where they should go - you inform others where you are going

you don’t tell people who to shoot - you name the ones you intend on shooting first

you obviously can’t tell people to change loadouts - but you can share yours with the team

 

situational awareness is a good substitute to scripted game plans. Better in most cases in-fact.

 

teams can get a headcount on roles way faster before game start than without comms. update pilots you want to pair up with seamlessly, asking for heals - backup which currently you cannot etc. you could write chapters on this. but in short -

 

the benefits are too good to pass up.

33

@Kine *Applause.* So well said. Don’t boss, inform. Thanks, I think that was the most valuable post on this subject anyone has given, including me.

34

And Kine brings up the key to a productive community: respect. All our issues with chat systems (voice or text) stem from in-game culture. I digress.

 

This is a good discussion. I still think voice chat is not worth it, though many valid points (above) were said.

35

Indeed. It has everything to do with the people that use it. Have not people said here that our community is one of the best? But the game chat is awful, I know. So, our situation in a nut shell right now is- Voice chat would add a lot to the coordination and team work of the game, but harassment, foul language, and communication chaos would quickly ensue.

 

I would really like to end this on Kine’s and Zeik’s note. But I have one more idea to put out there. I understand now that having voice chat across the entire game server would be chaotic, because, well, it happens in large groups. And usually its the immature 12 year old kids causing it, or immature adults cussing at kids, and all the ages between. But what if the voice chat was not server wide, what if the voice chat was only within squads or corporations. Squads are made up of people that get along. Squads are small, and made up of friends pretty much. And anyone that joins that squad is probably liked by all the other players. Also, you would notice a trend. Immature, 12 year old winy kids, profanity spewing adults, and everyone in between would be accepted into squads less and less, and the respectful, more mature 12 year old’s, teens, and adults would be accepted into squads more and more. This would discourage cursing, and wining among the players, and encourage respect, and mature attitudes. In the end, the Star Conflict community would become a nicer place to be. Of course there will always be nasty people in the game, but no one would have to listen to them if they didn’t want to. And if someone so chooses to have them in there squad, and listen to them, well that’s there choice, there problem and no one else’s.

36

Quick-fix: only let it function in squad/corporation chat.

Squad effectiveness increase: 500%

Community respect increase: 200%

End of discussion.

37

Quick-fix: only let it function in squad/corporation chat.

Squad effectiveness increase: 500%

Community respect increase: 200%

End of discussion.

yes, yes, short and sweet. But that’s not how its done in the forums. :stuck_out_tongue:

No one would have understood “Community respect increase: 200%” without the explanation I previously gave, so, yeah…

short and sweet doesn’t alwais work.

And besides, as the OP I say when this thread ends. :stuck_out_tongue:

BTW love your sig, ROFL…

38

truth is, people hate losing. it’s a built-in trait for human beings, even an infant hates losing. and from that we as a species have developed the ability to adapt, just google “adapt to win” and see for yourselves how it covers everything from sports to business to the armed forces. that says something about us.

 

take T2 long range snipers for example. on newbie sides you can find upwards of 4 snipers spawn camping sometimes. but these guys won’t last. they’ll change because they’ll start to notice how often they lose and how they routinely end up in the bottom half of the scoreboard. these players don’t have to be the best gamers to work out why and recognize a need to change.

 

the same truths will apply to public voice comms.

 

communication between strangers with a shared objective needs to be approached differently than say between corp mates. you don’t get to boss people around nor will good ideas get your team far because well … you’re strangers.

 

but that doesn’t nullify the benefits of comms. coordination is an end product, information is the key to coordination and among strangers in random teams that’s what it’s all about.

 

you don’t tell people where they should go - you inform others where you are going

you don’t tell people who to shoot - you name the ones you intend on shooting first

you obviously can’t tell people to change loadouts - but you can share yours with the team

 

situational awareness is a good substitute to scripted game plans. Better in most cases in-fact.

 

teams can get a headcount on roles way faster before game start than without comms. update pilots you want to pair up with seamlessly, asking for heals - backup which currently you cannot etc. you could write chapters on this.

This would be the ideal situation to make integrated voice chat work. In much older FPS game communities, such as Natural Selection (before the sequel was released), things along these lines were happening, although they were still at a disadvantage against clans who knew how to clear a room while simultaneously coordinating build points. If something like this is implemented, I hope it starts early enough that social conformity to this system can spread easier.

That said, there is still a wall of fire that it will be going through before it gets to that stage (bossy people, trolls, language barrier, detached players.) World of Warcraft has an integrated voice chat system as well, and no-one uses it despite being forced into PvE and PvP situations on an hourly basis precisely because of that wall of fire (and Ventrilo/TeamSpeak/Mumble clients.) The game going to eventually get to the point you’re speaking of, but how many of them will still have their voice chat on when that happens? That’s the part where this experiment becomes a bit of a gamble and, if it only has partial success, it could be interpreted was wasted programming hours that could have gone into other areas of the game.

Not saying it won’t work, but I’ll concede that it turned death into a fighting chance for life.

@Sabre01,

I see where you’re going with that, but Star Conflict already has an official TeamSpeak channel that is open to players here:

87.106.80.12:9988

Since people are in groups anyway and not completely random, they can take a moment to organize.

39

At game start you should be able to see the ))) symbols next to a players name grayed out or In green if they have a mic. and a push to talk button.

 

Further the ability to simply Click a box next to a players name to mute them and the ability to push 1 button while flying to “Ignore/Mute” who ever is currently talking.

 

this is a very BASIC feature that you should have, with simple solutions to deal with idiots on the other end of the mic.

 

What do you all think?

 

P.S. im talking in PVP ONLY, general chat needs to be left alone.

 

P.P.S  Very few people read the forums or even KNOW that Star conflict has a TS forum…

 

Plan on stupidity in every venture, its how you win wars

                                                                            - Choll

40

At game start you should be able to see the ))) symbols next to a players name grayed out or In green if they have a mic. and a push to talk button.

 

Further the ability to simply Click a box next to a players name to mute them and the ability to push 1 button while flying to “Ignore/Mute” who ever is currently talking.

 

this is a very BASIC feature that you should have, with simple solutions to deal with idiots on the other end of the mic.

 

What do you all think?

 

P.S. im talking in PVP ONLY, general chat needs to be left alone.

 

P.P.S  Very few people read the forums or even KNOW that Star conflict has a TS forum…

 

Plan on stupidity in every venture, its how you win wars

                                                                            - Choll

Again, another good point. But, remember earlier in the thread we talked about the lack of respect, and the cahos that comes with it. People will want to boss other people around, people won’t agree, etc. But that is not our problem is it? We have two solutions to this problem. 

 

1: We can limit voice chat to squads! I have said this many times before, but it seems to have gone unnoticed. Here is part of what I said earlier, “Squads are small, and made up of friends pretty much. And anyone that joins that squad is probably liked by all the other players. Also, you would notice a trend. Immature, 12 year old winy kids, profanity spewing adults, and everyone in between would be accepted into squads less and less, and the respectful, more mature 12 year old’s, teens, and adults would be accepted into squads more and more. This would discourage cursing, and wining among the players, and encourage respect, and mature attitudes. In the end, the Star Conflict community would become a nicer place to be. Of course there will always be nasty people in the game, but no one would have to listen to them if they didn’t want to. And if someone so chooses to have them in there squad, and listen to them, well that’s there choice, there problem and no one else’s.”

This is a very good solution I think. Simple, fare, and no one has to listen to anyone if they don’t want to. And any internal conflict can be resolved as a group. We can’t solve other peoples conflicts. There will always be people that want to be the boss. Those are conflicts they need to resolve. It has to do with maturity. So let them be, and if they choose to ruin there own gaming experience by not growing up, let it be. And besides, squad chat fixes 80% of this.

 

2: The almighty mute button, as stated above.