It is, I want to play the Kite and not the Hawk-M but that’s what we’ve got…
Anyway usually enemy team’s squads had R9 ships (DNO was frigballing with Anaconda-M + Blood Tormentor, the HOWLs were using Black Swarms and a Styx, etc)
3 men squad can use r9 ships if there are enough 3 or 2 men squad in que (if you are in a 3 men squad and you don’t get a game, remove the r9… you will be surprised). 4 man squad absolutely no r9.
Squad of 2 can fit whatever they want.
Yep in eu “prime” time it’s a pleasure playing in squads (sometimes even in t5 you get squads) basically no que time, still this r8+premiums it’s a shame.
I haven’t noticed any difference in squad queue times when I play in 3 or 2 men squads with R9.
Also, one of the 4 men squads we faced yesterday was using styxes, hyenas and achilles, so maybe if people start to play with R9 instead of full premiums, we would get more games in tier 3.
Because IIRC, the premium stuff for squads was because of mixed tiers (rank 9 squads counted as one tier higher) but now that tiers are fixed, it just doesn’t matter, as long as there are other R9 squads in front of you.
Other than that, I have been getting games with 3 men squads in T5 consistently.
Squads composed by 3 or 2 guy can use r9 ships if there are enough 3 or 2 men squad in que. 4 man squad absolutely no.
I have fought against a 4 man squad who had rank 9s before. I think it takes other factors into account, for example is the rank 9 maxed out or does it have purple modules? But I have really no idea, I’m just hypothesising ^^.
It would be so nice to know exactly how MM works, but they are right in not telling us because people would exploit it to get easier matches.
I agree with Residente that squad matches in t3 are a lot quicker. Launching with a 3 man squad does not scare me anymore. The same with a 2 man squad in t5.
Guys i’m reporting here what mine experience showed me. Also others can confirm that.
I honestly dunno how you get games against people with r9, we tried SO many times to go in que with r9 as 4 men squad.
But all the time it resulted in an infinite que, even if we know that where another 4 men squad with r9.
Maybe (and i’m making theory based on nothing here :P) a 4 men r9 squad can face a “premium” squad if there are enough people in que. But 4 vs 4 both with r9 it never happened to me 
I haven’t noticed any difference in squad queue times when I play in 3 or 2 men squads with R9.
…
3 men squad can use r9 ships if there are enough 3 or 2 men squad in que (if you are in a 3 men squad and you don’t get a game, remove the r9… you will be surprised). 4 man squad absolutely no r9.
Squad of 2 can fit whatever they want.
From my experience, 4-man squads can run R9s (standards) if they aren’t max synergy. I’ve played many games where in my 4-squad, one member was running a Styx that wasn’t max synergy.
With 3-man squads, it greatly depends on what other squads are in queue, if all members of a 3-man squad run R9s, they will only face other 3-man squads (rarely) or 4-man squads. 3-man squads can face 2-man squads and other 3-man squads commonly if only 1 member (not the squad leader) runs R9s. The others have to run prems/r8/7s.
From my experience, 4-man squads can run R9s (standards) if they aren’t max synergy. I’ve played many games where in my 4-squad, one member was running a Styx that wasn’t max synergy.
…
Oh that explains a lot, Tnx (all my ships are maxed)
it’s still not helping.
t3 ships should just get into a t3 queue. there is no gain in microbalancing tiers, especially now that we have hyena and achilles.
there is nothing to say against r7/r8 queue and r8/r9 queue if population is big enough to split, but otherwise, 4men squads are simply rare because only a small part of the pop knows how to queue. it’s also usually a downer, if a t2 4squad accidently fits a t3 and is queued against the only waiting r8-premium-4-squad which usually is some people who are way too strong for those t2 players. they will acknowledge its their own fault, still, it just shows, people want to squad, and the system is working against them.
3 squads get games, because they can get 2 squads, however, the 3-squad will have usually a terrible team 
also to note: one styx in the lineup sometimes works in 4 squad nevertheless even fully synergized, but again with only some people in combination. too hard to find out all particular rules, but one is clear, the r9 is sometimes not getting you games, especially if you know there is another corp 4-squad queueing at the same time with similar tech and you just do not get the game against each other.
it’s still not helping.
t3 ships should just get into a t3 queue. there is no gain in microbalancing tiers, especially now that we have hyena and achilles.
there is nothing to say against r7/r8 queue and r8/r9 queue if population is big enough to split, but otherwise, 4men squads are simply rare because only a small part of the pop knows how to queue. it’s also usually a downer, if a t2 4squad accidently fits a t3 and is queued against the only waiting r8-premium-4-squad which usually is some people who are way too strong for those t2 players. they will acknowledge its their own fault, still, it just shows, people want to squad, and the system is working against them.
3 squads get games, because they can get 2 squads, however, the 3-squad will have usually a terrible team
also to note: one styx in the lineup sometimes works in 4 squad nevertheless even fully synergized, but again with only some people in combination. too hard to find out all particular rules, but one is clear, the r9 is sometimes not getting you games, especially if you know there is another corp 4-squad queueing at the same time with similar tech and you just do not get the game against each other.
I completely agree. T3 is literally the only tier where squads running certain ships are put into a separate queue from the rest. All ships of a tier should be placed into one queue, regardless of the squad composition. It isn’t fair to players who want to play with their friends.
I agree the wait time (squad or solo) is too long. Matchmaking should be done by comparing equipped ships of each individual player.
Many of the squads I’ve flown against don’t seem to be that coordinated anyway, so assuming that being in a squad is an advantage is ridiculous. I’ve taken down 4 player squads before when in a random group. I’ve also had my xxxx handed to me when in a squad against random players. It’s a matter of equipment and skill, not whether you are flying in a group.
In a somewhat related note… What happened to the PvP bots? They used to make the idle times on the server so much more enjoyable. Never waited in a 6+ minute queue when the bots were being used.
I agree the wait time (squad or solo) is too long. Matchmaking should be done by comparing equipped ships of each individual player.
Many of the squads I’ve flown against don’t seem to be that coordinated anyway, so assuming that being in a squad is an advantage is ridiculous. I’ve taken down 4 player squads before when in a random group. I’ve also had my xxxx handed to me when in a squad against random players. It’s a matter of equipment and skill, not whether you are flying in a group.
In a somewhat related note… What happened to the PvP bots? They used to make the idle times on the server so much more enjoyable. Never waited in a 6+ minute queue when the bots were being used.
Each decent squad has a noticable impact on the battle. Especially in higher tiers a good squad can carry the battle.
Each decent squad has a noticable impact on the battle. Especially in higher tiers a good squad can carry the battle.
Well yeah, because it’s a team-focused game. That’s kind of the point.
Each decent squad has a noticable impact on the battle. Especially in higher tiers a good squad can carry the battle.
That’s great and all, but it is painfully ludicrous to attempt to play PvP with your friends. We very often, and everyone else I’ve spoken to thus far has confirmed, that with 2-pilot squads, you will generally get queued pretty swiftly. Add a third person, and it suddenly becomes much harder. A full squad of four, and no joke, it can be 2-3 HOURS before you see a SINGLE successfully entered match.
If the balance of larger squads is hurting game play that much, something else needs to be done. Throwing being able to play with your friends under the bus is…well, it’s insanity. Seriously. This game is fun…when you can play. The problem is, if you want to PvP, you either do 2-pilot squads, or simply not bother.
The other thing is, when you are matched against a comparable team, it doesn’t take into account anything else. Just squad size. If you face, say, a squad of the same size from a powerhouse corp, like Radix or NASA, they will not only mop the floor with your own 4-pilot team, you are extremely likely to face them over and over and over and over and over and over, even if you take a break to try to break the cycle.
The size of the squad might have an impact, but not being able to play with your friends is likely to have a dramatically worse long-term impact for the game. This matchmaking is hurting the game. It’s complained about actively in general chat all the time, for good reason. You need a different algorithm that by default still always puts squads on the top of the queue in decreasing order, from largest to smallest, and solos to fill out the queue, or the extraordinarily long wait time to get into matches will never, ever be resolved. It just won’t. Game after game after game proves this. It’s not some mystery why that is how the vast majority of matchmaking algorithms handle this. It’s the most logical approach to maximize the number of players successfully _ being able to play your game _ possible.
Look. It’s like this. Right now, we have people who are playing with friends waiting for extreme amounts of time to get into a match.
Which do you think most players would rather experience?
Having to wait 10-30 minutes to get into a single game.
Getting destroyed by a better team, but squeezing in 3-5 games in the amount of time Group 1 is waiting to play their first game.
One thing you can try to do is this:
If a team is mopping the floor with all comers, whoever they defeat by a certain threshold is tagged as being unable to be matched against them for, say, an hour.
And you know what? If that means the best of the best teams crush everyone available in short order, and cannot be matched against anyone else for a long while, GOOD! That will encourage them to move to another tier for awhile. It will ideally make the best of the best teams WANT to progress into the higher tiers, instead of constantly staying in the sweet spot that Tier 3 PvP very obviously is at this time.
Please, take this as constructive criticism. This game is a blast when we actually get to play. We want to play more. But the matchmaking is killing it for a lot of people. It’s detrimental to the long-term health of the game. Don’t punish people who want to play with friends, which is unfortunately what the current matchmaking algorithm does. That’s precisely what it does. Unintended consequences are bad. Unintended consequences that are basically ignored are much, much worse.