OP has templar and templar s - one of the best ships from lower tiers for this pve… Both perfectly capable not even in playing in that pve, but also soloing it. What he needs - is a little experience and thinking - what type of damage is there? Where are the spawns? Should I tank the damage (with guard) or EM scatter and kill all from hiding (LRF)? He has some fighters and commands pretty capable of equipping singularity cannon. And in tiers he is playing there are only up to 12 turtles IIRC per game.
The problem is not with turtles - In general problems are with:
- players don’t know they can select map for PvE
- players are forcing ships “I have to level this up” for maps not suitable for the ship type
- players are taking ships not suitable for the map, kamikazing into first enemy group and wants to be carried
- players are refusing to think how to improve the gameplay experience “I came here for pew pew, not for the thinking!”
- players are refusing to teamplay “we have 3 destroyers I have engie, ecm and recon. ECM it is!”
Those are the basic problems with PvE. Additionaly - with just 20 positions in our contact list it’s VERY hard to organize proper squads for pve. Map is ok, enemies are challenging, but not too hard. I would say that fire support and defense contract are the best balanced maps in the PvE category.
so basicly, “turtles are not the problem, what i think is the problem is the problem”, even if i was not really sure, if your answer was really to what you quoted, as i think my critique was not mainly at you
but i was refering to how to read the problems of the player. and criticized exactly the mindset of veterans, who think, just because they see the picture more clearly, everything is allright, and giving answers like that.
we have to remember, getting more insight also loses us the starting perspective, acting like we “know” what people want in a tier, most of us played actually “in reality” for as short time as possible, is a double edged sword. Even if we started it several times (as we both have)
he said something about machete. he seemed to “expect”, that all ships should be able to do pve.
in this regard, the answer is, as you point out, no.
its still dual information:
a) to us, that players early have problems with things, we dont consider to be a problem, so maybe if we really think we are the guys who know what other people want, also should listen to it seriously
b) to the devs its still a feedback, that players expect something, and this means some things are “ambigious” to them.
to your list…
if people dont find things, it is usually a sign of missing “accessibility”
however i stopped criticizing it, because making things accessible seems to be done by “disabling complexity”.
otherwise, yeah, stuff is valid, except you cant force people to get smarter without expecting it to happen.
which is kinda the art of game design, to make people learn while playing, how to play better.
also of course, i wasnt saying turtles are a problem, and of course, “nerfing the turtle” would be wrong as reaction
it is a valid critique imho, that players in low tiers expect the early missions to be solvable by any kind of ship they equip. and if not, this could be noted to the player, by suggesting e.g. something on mission failure. some games go this length, if they truly want to keep their “trial until success” type of gameplay.