Tier 4 is not balanced the same as the lower tiers

Steam says I have 310ish hours played in Star Conflict. At the current moment, Tier 4 balance is not anywhere close to the balance of the lower tiers (in my opinion). Ships are maxed in synergy before I have the chance to equip more than a max gun, modules I’ve salvaged (“free” stuff) and maybe only 1 or 2 upgrades.

 

In prior Tiers, I was able to upgrade ships while saving for new ships. In Tier 4, you need to save for new ships and ignore upgrades if you want to progress once synergy is maxed for a ship. Meanwhile, you are getting whooped by all those who have been in T4/T5 forever. Frankly, it’s no fun and starting to feel like a grind. It turns into a completely different game at Tier 4. Slow down the synergy income or increase the credit income please (and I will not PVE…incredibly boring and monotonous imo).

 

P.S. T4 is a restricted search term in the forums. Why?

T4 is a restricted search term in the forums. Why?

 

Maybe “T4” is too short to be a search term?

 

Anyway… I’m seeing the same issues even in T3 when I play during offpeak hours. I have a full R9 lineup that’s at least 50% purple, and yet I’m fighting against people with a lone Silent Fox or Phobos that’s not even fully synergized. I’m guessing it’s the lack of players more than anything else.

It boils down to mechanics that do not survive in the wild.

 

The theory (proposed by people who don’t play games, study psychology, or ever try to work out why the previous game collapsed) is that when weak players are exposed to higher players with superior gear it encourages them to progress and get good gear themselves. This works for a small minority of players, but most do not appreciate the odds being stacked against them too heavily.

 

Likewise, most gamers want a good experience. And let’s be honest, “good” tends to mean “I’m on the winning side.” So, gamers will naturally want to play in games where they have more chance of winning. Players also derive satisfaction from personal achievement beyond victory; having a high kill count, low death count and lots of objectives achieved all make a game more satisfying, which in turn is harder to do if you are at a tech-disadvantage.

 

Next, players like other players. Particularly in action-orientated games like this one, players want lots of other people in game to make the game feel bigger, more energetic and more unpredictable. Also, more players means more kills to earn and more people to make look bad.

 

Finally, players want to play, not stare at loading screens.

 

So, all of these features work together to make T4 and T5 a waste of space. Initially, everyone was pretty equal when the game was new, but once the old guard forms you get the core of top-ship, Mk IV equipped, full-synergy pilots who have considerable advantage over the up and comers. Let’s go through all of the above points and consider the impact of this:

 

  1. Weak ships, poor gear and low synergy mean the player feels the game is stacked against them.

  2. This reduces their odds of winning, making the game quality feel reduced.

  3. This also reduces their impact in game, resulting in fewer kills, fewer objectives achieved, and more deaths. This further reduces the perceived quality of the match.

  4. Because pilots can get a higher-quality game in lower tiers, they tier down. This increases wait times and reduces the average ship count per match for those who remain. This in turn reduces the quality of the games.

 

So how can this be rectified? Well, that’s easy; players need to be competitive right off the bat. The disadvantages of using low-tier ships, low-synergy ships and Mk I / II gear must either be eliminated entirely, reduced considerably, or else progression must be reworked that players can speed through the weak phase of the game very, very quickly.

 

However, all of these solutions go against the “pay to not have a xxxx experience” monetisation plan of the game. In essence, Star Conflict is ruining its chances of sustaining a high-tier player population in the hope of making money from people who aspire to be high-tier players.

Tier 4 is where you discover top end game. To keep with the increasing cost of everything including repairs, you need either to get licenses, play high tier pve or grind low tiers.

I recommend you to play pve for credits. Full green ships are good enough to be competitive. I have more than 1000 hours played and still some of my ships are just green.

Maybe “T4” is too short to be a search term?

 

Anyway… I’m seeing the same issues even in T3 when I play during offpeak hours. I have a full R9 lineup that’s at least 50% purple, and yet I’m fighting against people with a lone Silent Fox or Phobos that’s not even fully synergized. I’m guessing it’s the lack of players more than anything else.

You do realise that the majority of players play this game as a " FREE TO PLAY" and won’t have the license for the credit boost, which extends the grind further. Hence why people don’t have hundreds of millions of credits laying around… or vouchers.

You do realise that the majority of players play this game as a " FREE TO PLAY" and won’t have the license for the credit boost, which extends the grind further. Hence why people don’t have hundreds of millions of credits laying around… or vouchers.

That is OK, if you play for free, you have to grind, or stay in lower tiers. If you want top tier games and don’t want to grind, pay a bit. Premium ship sales are regular so it is not like other games. Also, PvE allows you to keep with tier 5 repair costs without having to play low tier ships. Which is a very good thing.

 

And btw, I have hundreds of millions of credits lying around…

So what would the solution be to provide a system that retains players while still prophiting revenue?

 

Pay per month is no longer an option unless your game is Eve or WOW.

You do realise that the majority of players play this game as a " FREE TO PLAY" and won’t have the license for the credit boost, which extends the grind further. Hence why people don’t have hundreds of millions of credits laying around… or vouchers.

 

I’ve never bought a single day of license. I don’t have much credits either, though I have 500+ hours clocked according to Steam.

So what would the solution be to provide a system that retains players while still prophiting revenue?

Pay per month is no longer an option unless your game is Eve or WOW.

Cosmetics, mostly.

GS to repaint ships. GS for custom stickers. GS for alternate hull designs. GS for alternative engine trail colours.

Then you can charge GS for Premium ships that are variations on existing designs (ie: more damage but less survivability, or faster but lower base resists, etc) so paying pilots get greater choice of ship layout.

GS for Licences to reduce grind even more and boost income. GS for Mk III items that grant a SMALL boost to income.

All of these are perfectly valid without the need to force pointless grind into the game.

The ship front in particular can work very well, so long as it is done with care. Imagine each faction having, say, six ships per class per tier. Tier 3 is almost there now.

So let’s use Empire for an example. If you applied this to T5 you’d have the Apollo and Lightbringer as F2P Gunships, the Apollo Aura as a F2P Command, then a Premium Gunship, a Pirate Command and then a second Premium Gunship (maybe for another faction?). Those who pay can essentially find a variant that best fits their style of play and rock out, but F2P pilots are still given access to ships that are of comparable quality so they can compete.

That is OK, if you play for free, you have to grind, or stay in lower tiers. If you want top tier games and don’t want to grind, pay a bit. Premium ship sales are regular so it is not like other games. Also, PvE allows you to keep with tier 5 repair costs without having to play low tier ships. Which is a very good thing.

 

And btw, I have hundreds of millions of credits lying around…

 

Most of my recent games (all of the last 4 months) have been premium. Premium does not prevent any type of grind. Let’s not provide false advertising. EDIT: I mis-interpreted the quote. Don’t you still have to gear up premium ships?

 

Tier 3 was reasonable. In Tier 4, you need 4-8 battles to upgrade one piece of equipment for one of 4 ships. By that time, at least one ship, if not more, have a synergy level. My ships are leveling way faster than my ability to equip them. Therefore, I’ll just save to buy the next rank ship and skip gearing my ships (because higher rank is also better). So…Tier 4-5 is a grind of lose w/ underpowered ships and save cash the entire time. It’s not fair to those in Tier 3 if I go back there and stomp them for money and frankly it’s also not as fun as a fair fight in T4 while making progress (which does not exist).

When I read your initial post, MegaGrubby, I had a feeling that you envy players who have used some money to get further, which is understandable, but your point isn’t exactly valid, since it’s merely reflecting your opinion.

T4 is pefectly fine and it can even rival T5 ships. It’s the skill and feel for the game, plus you need good teamwork, coordination skills, etc… I played some T4 PVP matches just yesterday, by going solo and I can say that everything is between “acceptable threshold”.

 

“Putting on black eyeglasses”

 

Let me tell you mine opinion.
I can only speak from my experience, so I will describe it shortly.

I have been actively playing this game for nearly 18 months now. At first, I started without a license and I played without it for first 5 months. I got no DLCs either at first 5 months. Later, I joined a Corporation, when I got access to T3 ships, that’s was about 6 months after my start. So after 6 months, I got 2 basic DLC’s. Later I would get all of them, plus a premium license, but that was when I already reached T4, like you did.

 

As for now, I do not know what to do with a money, nor standard synergy or free synergy as well. I can convert standard synergy, but to convert it all, I would need 1500000 Galactic Standards, with which I can pretty much buy a new car, but I do not have to do it, because I have a choice. All upgrades are done, all mk IV. All I can hope is mk V upgrades and more new ships or even tiers, like Tier 6. This game has reached stale-male point for me. There is nothing that I need or require, that’s why I am helping other people, whenever I can or blow them up.

 

For example, I have almost never used any conversions to get free synergy extraction, not even from sales, that would require a big investment.

I invested in DLC and GS to get a premium license, when the price was right, usually on sales.

You get credits by playing PVE. If you want free synergy, use premium ships. Have some squad to help you and use T3 or T4 ships for contracts and better loot.

This game feels like a grind and it is, but trust me, there are worse cases out there than this game.

Number one factor, which is the most essential one is PATIENCE. Proceed slowly, but steadily.

 

As for grinding for Loyalty Vouchers: Rewards are fine as they are. All that we would need is, that they add rank 13-15 contracts on T3 ships, so you can fulfill entire contract faction tree, if you would want to progress a bit better and faster, but only if you’re a premium owner. At least some of your support gets rewarded here with faster progress. I admit, loyalty vouchers are the most difficult to acquire in this game.

 

At the end, there is always a choice. You can choose to play this game for free, or you can support it and progress a bit faster.

I knew it’s going to take more than 1 year to get me so far, so I worked on that patiently and with a clear goal in my mind.

 

“Putting off black eyeglasses”

 

Sincerely, Koromac

I’ve maxed all T3’s, went to T4 - and now I’m farming at T3.

 

First and only reason - set of T4 ships get balanced with T5. I can understand why - because T4-T5 population is low. But this balance is one of the low population reasons.

 

I’m an average pilot, but I want to “have a good experience” ( JasanQuinn - excellent answer! ). Good experience for me is to be useful, to contribute in victory (as much as possible, evil grin included). Being balanced with T5 makes me feel like I took T1 ship into T3 match. I dont mind fighting purple rank 12 ship with green rank 10, but current matchmaker makes me feel I’m screwing my team just by entering a battle with T4 ships.

 

My current answer - I’ll just max all T4 through PvE and free synergy - and in T5 I’ll level ships in PvP again.

 

MegaGrubby - look at T5 upgrade prices - T3 was reasonable, but T5 is an endgame content after all - it has to take an effort.

 

Devouder, you are mistaken on the need for ‘effort’ to level in T5. The massive increase in grind required is part of what keeps players AWAY from T5!

The faster a player progresses, the less of an issue low-synergy and low-quality equipment makes. If you only need 6 matches to get a ‘decent’ amount of synergy so as to make your ship competitive, you’d likely tough it out. If it takes 60 you are more likely to avoid using the ship and get the synergy via PvE, Invasion or Free ground from lower tier ships.

Bad design and ill conceived monetisation is hurting T4 and T5. Nothing about progression in those tiers is even close to acceptable.

Well…apparently my original post was not read by recent contributors. I asked that synergy and credits are balanced. I’d be happy if synergy gain was decreased. At the current ratio…ships level way faster than they can be equipped…please fix it.

Or just increase credit gain and high-end loyalty gain… Why in the world would you want to increase grind?

You use a lot of ellipses.

Star Conflict’s core play is fun. It just isn’t fun in T5. They put too much in - broken modules, broken ships and broken implants. T3 is the apex of the game; either side of that, quality slides inevitably downward.

Star Conflict’s core play is fun. It just isn’t fun in T5. They put too much in - broken modules, broken ships and broken implants. T3 is the apex of the game; either side of that, quality slides inevitably downward.

 

It’s not much fun at T4 either (long queues, huge leap in cost, getting stomped by T5s…). T4 basically just exists right now to get you to T5. Kind of like those movies nobody likes that only exist to set up the plot for the sequel. And then the sequel ends up being even worse.

It’s not much fun at T4 either (long queues, huge leap in cost, getting stomped by T5s…). T4 basically just exists right now to get you to T5. Kind of like those movies nobody likes that only exist to set up the plot for the sequel. And then the sequel ends up being even worse.

Tier 4 is the best tier, because you already have all the modules, and you can face toe to toe with tier 5 ships. The real game begins in rank 11.

 

People who stay alone in tier 3 are just farmers and people afraid to learn new metagames.

 

Atm in euro and rus peak times, there is the same queue time for T4-5 than for t3. And flying in a 2 men squad is really easy. Not too many 3 men or 4 men squads though…

 

Also, in full rank 15 games there are not bots, which is HUGE!!

Tier 4 is the best tier, because you already have all the modules, and you can face toe to toe with tier 5 ships. The real game begins in rank 11.

 

People who stay alone in tier 3 are just farmers and people afraid to learn new metagames.

 

I agree to the first part of the sentence.

I hear a lot, that T5 is uncomparably strong to T4, but when I look at the ships and play SQ, look at the item levels of ships of players, it tells me a different story. It is true, most of the T4 ships, even R11 and upward, become somewhat unimportant down the line. However some configurations you can do in T3, do not work with T5 ships at all, because they just have the wrong slots and bonuses.

 

I think what should happen is a change in Metagame, because everything in T5 is just a lot faster, gets a lot more damage, and the implants change the dynamic of the battle, while also becoming a lot more situational.

 

But there are a lot fewer ships in T5, creating a lot of holes, one could exploit in bigger battles;

 

Now I am a T3 dweller (but I do play SQ now from time to time), and I disagree about your second standpoint. I am neither afraid to learn a new metagame, nor “farming”, I actually enjoy T3 because it is what it is. I own most of the golden ships, and all DLCs, and have enough purple item stock in T3 to try new fits in their optimum whenever I please, and it is a good tier to wait up to people who are slightly less interested in a daily play. I don’t think this should change at all; T3 should stay awesome and competitive for bigger public battles, and the daily gameplay of squads against each other is just awesome. It brings out almost every role and class and also tells you a lot about different philosophies of fighting. Having it centered around the Styx as the main healer of the tier, which relies on heavy tank, is also the metagame defining factor of T3.

In T5, T-Rex, Naga, Grizzlies, etc. offer way more movement based gameplay, while the big heavy stone, the Minotaur, becomes somewhat of a shadow of the Styx, mixing up the gameplay yet again.

This is just an example of a change I noticed, but yet again, a fully purple Minotaur is still worth a shot in my opinion.

 

T4&T5 have so much ways to make a ship really powerful, that team play becomes essential. This also means different setups, tactics, etc.

 

Now I think that what really is the problem, is, that a part of our community has the opportunities in T5 to fit ships, as I do in T3, but this group is actually a minority across the player base, while a large amount of players is slowly getting there, but mostly focusing on getting their T5s up first. It is logical, but leaves T4 somewhat unexplored, and has only a few different established metagames - not to speak about the difference in skill levels.

 

Because lets face it: you have to synergize up ships completely, and fit them with all-purple one day to unleash their full potential; and if this full potential includes carefully built fits, you cannot recognize the ship’s worth truly.

 

The similarity to Eve is here: some Eve ships just make no sense without full skillset for all submodules of that ship, and having some rare items. Because the optimal fits will not work by some small factors if you don’t use them. You can of course cheat by swapping modules, but you could pay in a 1:1 if the other one has what you don’t, especially since every fight is auto-aimed; SC’s fitting system might be a lot more simple, and still needs microbalancing probably later in those two techs, but it basicly boils down to one day only being able to compete, if your fits are all purple.

I doubt, there are hundreds of players atm. who can fit anything in T4 and T5 fully purple and play it in big battles; but there are those in T3, which is why T3 also feels so much more balanced, atm.

I have to agree with MegaGrubby on this one.

 

As of this point, I have about 3.2 million credits. I have the Minotaur and Castor unlucked synergywise, and I have one ship that has mostly blue/purple actives and weapons.

 

On average, unlicensed, I’m getting somewhere around 100k credits per game, and don’t find that PVE for me makes significantly more money. That means that I have to play another 92 games to get the ships that I have unlocked (and I will certainly unlock at least two ships in the process). At 20 minutes per game, that’s around 30 hours.

 

That doesn’t include getting all my passives just the way I like them (each of those is 3-7 games - at least an hour), or greening anything (3 to 10 games - usually 2 hours).

 

Now, I can just enjoy playing the game to a point. Going up against Tier 5’s can be a bit annoying (especially when they’re purpled and in good hands). However, part of the enjoyment of the game is new and better ships, and the grind is a bit extreme for a filthy casual like me. Moreover, when I start thinking of the game in terms of a grind, I just don’t feel like logging in. I’m sure I"m not alone in that.

 

I could chop that amount of time in half with a license, which I know is a big part of the point of why things are structured as is. However, having more players would do this game good - and making the grind less crap should help keep more F2Ps around.