Thar'kth vs Thar'ga'tok advice

Hello!

 

I just wanted to hear some advice about these two guns and which one is good at r9 battles (which is, I believe, T3?)

 

Someone in-game said that they were both nerfed to the ground but I haven’t been able to find anything about it in the patches section and I wondered how they were nerfed

Is the thar’kth worth using considering the fact that you need 2 electronic guidances, an implant and craftable ammo just to make its spread bearable?

 

Thanks everyone!

 

 

I am not too sure about r9 and if you can get a kinetic bonus node, I think its not worth using Tharkth without that kinetic node. Targatok is fine across levels.

I run a tharga, and I personally prefer to use Gauss or Assault rail guns, which are basically classic counterparts to Tharkh and Targatok, just a personal preferences, and I don’t think they are any worse than alien guns, yet way cheaper )))

 

Both guns are fairly opposite in usage, so I recommend you try both on Tharga and decide which type you like more - high fire rate DPS gun or a Burst changing weapon

 

Here is a gameplay with Gauss:

Here is a gameplay with Assault Railguns

 

Many lthanks for your reply, Kost!

And r9 does have the spread reduction node, which is nice!

 

I’ve tried both guns and I think it’s pretty easier to aim with the ga’tok, on the other hand- that 'kth burst 4k (sometimes 8!!) is just so darn awesome, but having a lower-end pc with some network issues makes it really darn hard to aim, which is why I’ve mostly been using the ga’tok

 

I haven’t tried gauus or railguns yet, I may give them a spin!

By the way, what’s the trick with the gauss? Do you charge the shot up and then double tap? Does the second shot deal the same damage as the first one?

 

Thanks in advance!

Gauss can accumulate up to 3 charges.

 

Gotta clear up what charging actually does:

  1. It sums base dmg per charge (so if your single shot =1500 dmg, 3x charge 4500 base dmg (not crit))

  2. Each charge sums crit chance as well, so if your base is 33% crit chance -> 2x =66% and 3x charge =99% basically a guaranteed crit

  3. The more crit chance it accumulates, the less crit dmg it has. Basically, only your base dmg can crit (dmg of one crit)

  • Let’s say your base shot is 1500 dmg and crit dmg of 100%, so 1 charge crit will do 1500+1500.

  • But 3x charge will be 3x 1500 (base dmg) + 1500 (crit) => 6 000 (this is important as people tend to think that full 3x charge dmg will crit, aka 4500+4500, which is NOT the case)

 

Now with double shot

It is basically a 2x charge and quick tap for a single shot (gotta do some practice in the custom battle to get used to the timing, there is a fairly small window to do a double tap. What it does is you do 2+1 (charges), 1st charging can crit and 2d shot can crit too, so you can get 3x base shots + 2x crits, instead of 3x base shots + 1 crit.

 

 

With classic build for 3x charging, people aim for ~33% crit chance (since 3x multiplier) and increase base dmg as much since it will be tripled, crit dmg not as important, since there is not much of it in the final dmg.

With 2+1 build you aim for ~50% base crit chance, that way your 2x shot almost always crit and +1 has a high chance to proc a crit too, crit dmg is more valuable too, obviously base dmg good too since there is still 3 charges used.

 

Sounds like there’s a lot of stuff I didn’t know about the gauss cannon! How can I tell how many charges I’ve, err- charged up?

I’ve been trying it around for the past hour and I think I’m getting the hang of the second shot’s timing, looks like this one’s made for Long range fights, am I right?
 

mid-long yes, it is kinda hard to operate in close range. Definitely not a 1v1 gun. 

For charges, aiming reticle used to have 3 steps distinctively telling your charges, but now it is more gradual, so it’s arbitrary by guts

1 hour ago, xKostyan said:

Gauss can accumulate up to 3 charges.

 

Gotta clear up what charging actually does:

  1. It sums base dmg per charge (so if your single shot =1500 dmg, 3x charge 4500 base dmg (not crit))

  2. Each charge sums crit chance as well, so if your base is 33% crit chance -> 2x =66% and 3x charge =99% basically a guaranteed crit

  3. The more crit chance it accumulates, the less crit dmg it has. Basically, only your base dmg can crit (dmg of one crit)

  • Let’s say your base shot is 1500 dmg and crit dmg of 100%, so 1 charge crit will do 1500+1500.

  • But 3x charge will be 3x 1500 (base dmg) + 1500 (crit) => 6 000 (this is important as people tend to think that full 3x charge dmg will crit, aka 4500+4500, which is NOT the case)

 

Now with double shot

It is basically a 2x charge and quick tap for a single shot (gotta do some practice in the custom battle to get used to the timing, there is a fairly small window to do a double tap. What it does is you do 2+1 (charges), 1st charging can crit and 2d shot can crit too, so you can get 3x base shots + 2x crits, instead of 3x base shots + 1 crit.

 

 

With classic build for 3x charging, people aim for ~33% crit chance (since 3x multiplier) and increase base dmg as much since it will be tripled, crit dmg not as important, since there is not much of it in the final dmg.

With 2+1 build you aim for ~50% base crit chance, that way your 2x shot almost always crit and +1 has a high chance to proc a crit too, crit dmg is more valuable too, obviously base dmg good too since there is still 3 charges used.

 

Can we put this in the wiki or something.

This is fantastic info.

13 minutes ago, TheDarkRedFox said:

Can we put this in the wiki or something.

This is fantastic info.

Wiki is open for edit to all of you.

+1 - Kosty

On 9/23/2017 at 5:19 PM, DgStat1k said:

Hello!

 

I just wanted to hear some advice about these two guns and which one is good at r9 battles (which is, I believe, T3?)

 

Someone in-game said that they were both nerfed to the ground but I haven’t been able to find anything about it in the patches section and I wondered how they were nerfed

Is the thar’kth worth using considering the fact that you need 2 electronic guidances, an implant and craftable ammo just to make its spread bearable?

 

Thanks everyone!

 

 

Neither. Both are broken. The Thar’Ga’Tok if built right can have a stupidly high projectile speed and low spread making it a no-skill aim gun. On top of that theres a bonus that makes it 40% worse in both categories. 

Thar’kth cannon does massive damage, even more so with a crit chance and crit build and then it’s even MORE dangerous by 40% because of the proj speed and spread reduction, basically making it OP. 

IF you say neither of these are broken you’re being silly and need to get a life. 

2 hours ago, IFreakinLoveBass said:

Neither. Both are broken. The Thar’Ga’Tok if built right can have a stupidly high projectile speed and low spread making it a no-skill aim gun. On top of that theres a bonus that makes it 40% worse in both categories. 

Thar’kth cannon does massive damage, even more so with a crit chance and crit build and then it’s even MORE dangerous by 40% because of the proj speed and spread reduction, basically making it OP. 

IF you say neither of these are broken you’re being silly and need to get a life. 

Thargatok is border line worse than a classic Assault railgun.

Tharkth is a close range gun, which should be defacto stronger than mid long range guns. If you are using tharkth like a gauss, well you are better off using a gauss since its much better at that

Lets look at mid range main weapons: if the aim of the player is bad, should he build for a more or a less spread version of a gun on his ship?

Does higher spread help in killing fast moving targets - at least a little ?

Should a low aim-skilled player build for a more crit chance build main weapon?

Any tips for getting better at aim, for some weapons like beam weapons are great option but only for good aim, good ping and so on, or am I wrong in my prepositions?

 

How does spread mechanic work exactly? Is it just like a factor diminishing the damage dealt on a fixed hit/impact-area, or is the hit/impact-area lowered or extended via spread factor as well? Meaning high spread would be a proportional problem in longer distances and an inversely proportional problem in ship size (bigger less problem smaller bigger problem) [problem := less damage dealt/delivered]? Is crit chance and spread linked in the damage mechanics?

 

For example: In guard frigates everyone loves the Proximity mortar -  on paper it has a high spread and average crit-specs – so what is its secret of success? Is it its high area of triggering the secondary explosion damage , how do you call it ‘impact area’ , ‘projectile-ball size’??

In Engineer frigates I like the Eclipse launcher (EM damage) in general and the new Th’ak’Len (kinetic dmg) gun for my Wazgot. I prefer average spread like under 1.0 and medium range like 4500m or more. I feel I get better damge delivered to targets than if I am using the  beam weapon of the Wazgot, the WL13-El Emitter or the Mass driver gun or the Coil mortar. Previously I was a fan of the heavy blaster, but one need min 2 CPU slots for adjusting it properly.

Any tips here?

On 23/9/2017 at 9:50 PM, xKostyan said:

mid-long yes, it is kinda hard to operate in close range. Definitely not a 1v1 gun. 

For charges, aiming reticle used to have 3 steps distinctively telling your charges, but now it is more gradual, so it’s arbitrary by guts

I’ve been trying it out and I like it, but I face the same issue that I have with the thar’kth, I miss most of my shots because of the charging feature ![:(](<fileStore.core_Emoticons>/emoticons/003j.png “:(”) I guess I’ll keep practicing, thanks! ( I think I’m getting the hang of the charge times by now)

 

17 hours ago, IFreakinLoveBass said:

Neither. Both are broken. The Thar’Ga’Tok if built right can have a stupidly high projectile speed and low spread making it a no-skill aim gun. On top of that theres a bonus that makes it 40% worse in both categories. 

Thar’kth cannon does massive damage, even more so with a crit chance and crit build and then it’s even MORE dangerous by 40% because of the proj speed and spread reduction, basically making it OP. 

IF you say neither of these are broken you’re being silly and need to get a life. 

I thought they had been nerfed to the ground, hmm

I use the 'ga’tok with the spread reduction and speed increase and I still miss most small ships (maybe due to the supernova ammo?)

And like Kostyan said, it’s pretty much an EM assault railgun and you can have pretty much the same spread on both guns as far as I know. I’m not sure about the damage though

I’m curious about the Thar’ga’tok, it says it’s damage and speed ramp up with “prolonged firing”. Does that mean that they ramp up as you fire more shots, or that they ramp up as you fire for longer, or as the weapon heat increases, or something else entirely? It’s not very clear. Basically, does attack speed and weapon heat rate affect the rate at which the damage and projectile speed ramp up?

 

My two cents on the question, I prefer using the thar’ga’tok, Just the way I play; I have trouble using gauss against small, fast targets (ironically what everyone says it’s good for). I prefer it over rails as the little bit of extra range makes a big difference. I can’t use the Thark’th for crap, so that’s that. It has the potential to very good though. I have been destroyed repeatedly by one guy in t3 running a tharkth build, though his name escapes me at the moment.

 

Kosty, I’m not sure what you mean by cheaper. Sure, it costs quite a bit to manufacture them in the short term, but since I’m using supercooled charges, it ends up being cheaper, at least credit wise, in the long term.

Thargatok is somewhat similar to Skrah, but instead of a growing fire rate, it grows base dmg, which has a limit stated in the weapon stat sheet (min - max dmg range).

Thargatok grows to full dmg within 2.5(?) seconds with default fire rate, higher fire rate mods speed up the process of reaching max dmg. 

 

By cheaper, i meant that Alien guns have to be:

a) Unlocked via a node - spend craft mats.

b) Crafted with more craft mats.

 

while classic guns just purchasable with credits, and credits are fairly easy to come by - run 1 T5 PvE with a prem ship, and you are hitting ~1 000 000 credits, with license and credit bonus you can push 1 500 000 per Fire Support run (~5-10 minutes a run)

good luck doing this for repair costs and grind all day : loosing your fun … nonesensical why game is dying

Is there a builds-focused site kind of place that I could go to look up different ship setups for choices between weapons like these? I know that so far I’ve spent most of my time lurking here on the forums trying to figure out what weapons are “still” good because it seems like everytime I find a setup that sounds awesome and read several posts about it, it turns out that it was beat to death with the nerf bat months ago heh, Not trying to go for super meta builds or anything silly, I am still just starting out but I just don’t want to end up being “that guy” who is running around with a wiffle bat thinking its the bee’s knees type deal. There is just so much to learn and very little in the way of official explanations that I can find, so I’m getting a bit lost tbh

You can either watch kosty’s vids and try to get some info out of it or my tutorials where i tried to explain the SC way of thinking so you can develop your own ideas and playstyles.

15 hours ago, *Strigas said:

Is there a builds-focused site kind of place that I could go to look up different ship setups for choices between weapons like these? I know that so far I’ve spent most of my time lurking here on the forums trying to figure out what weapons are “still” good because it seems like everytime I find a setup that sounds awesome and read several posts about it, it turns out that it was beat to death with the nerf bat months ago heh, Not trying to go for super meta builds or anything silly, I am still just starting out but I just don’t want to end up being “that guy” who is running around with a wiffle bat thinking its the bee’s knees type deal. There is just so much to learn and very little in the way of official explanations that I can find, so I’m getting a bit lost tbh

Thing is a majority of people that would complain about stuff that is “beat to the death with the nerf bat” has no idea what they are talking about ![;)](<fileStore.core_Emoticons>/emoticons/002.png “;)”) Of course there are a couple of things that are out of meta but most of the equipment is still valid. 

 

The game is big and complicated, it is much easier to answer questions about stuff when it is more or less specified, like “I am getting into r9-r10 Empire Fighters - what would be generic solid builds?”, etc.

Here:
[https://forum.star-conflict.com/index.php?/forum/235-balance/](< base_url >/index.php?/forum/235-balance/)

 

and here:
[https://forum.star-conflict.com/index.php?/forum/244-miscellaneous/](< base_url >/index.php?/forum/244-miscellaneous/)

are a good place to ask such questions ![:)](<fileStore.core_Emoticons>/emoticons/001j.png “:)”)