[T3 Cover Ops] Ricasso vs Kite

Game Discussion Balance
21

Haven’t played Kite yet, but I’ve built 1 tanky frigate killer. I doubt  kite can withstand a minefield + pulsar + lasers.  At least in my hands. 

I did beef up my speed to up to 506 afterburners, which suits me just fine (compared on my full tank build with <400). When I unlock some Mk3 modules it will be around 520.

 And now I actually manage to get to the beacon when its capped on 50-60 points and actually get a cap points instead of “Beacon captured <0.2 sec later> bzzt (the blue stream)”. 

 

And With my play style  I usually get into mines / minefields/ big explosions  and am left on ~1000 hull. Which translates to death in Kite.

But another player may not have put him/herself in this situation in first place.

 

Can you please discuss Sheld resist module (now) or shield cap module (will add ~1000 shields). If you want do the math too.

post-242321-0-13691100-1372721914.jpg

 

 

I admit : I suck vs other interceptors with my current loadout (RFR). So I just high tail it to nearest engineer or death ball when I kill a frigate.

 

With plasma I was better vs that, but was failing my purpose - frigate destroyer. Also I may change the range module for spread or simply some thermal resist on shields ? Or depending on what your math shows some 10-13% extra shields, but most likely will stay with range. 2000 is just not cut it for anything besides killing off frigates. (for me)

 

I also have purple crit module, but figured 47% vs 54  with thermal and 63 vs 70 with kinetic is not that much of a difference when the spread is too high (for non-frigate opponents). Please discuss.

 

post-242321-0-77624800-1372721908.jpg

 

 

BTW: RIcasso’s bonus makes the Orion to give 144% damage instead of 120. And with high critical chance and +50% critical damage implant it is ridiculous increase in damage. Also the thermal lance doing 20% more damage is not that bad.

 

You can notice I am using the shield resist survival. It works way better than White noise and also activates the immunity to Speed slowing effects tacklers apply (implant), which is added survivability. 

 

 

P.S. I’ve read in some recent update that “Dead end ships gain 5% bonus to speed” So Ricasso stats with 292/437 instead of 278/417 like the other CovOps from Jericho.

22

Thinking of it, i think ill try Ricasso sometime early.

Kite is indeed insane fast but very wobbly as well. Any idea if R. is more stable in chaotic flight?

The instability of the Kite is exactly the reason why I don’t fly it. I suspect it’s my Jericho bias speaking, but the Kite feels floaty even with a Collision Compensator.

23

What wobbliness are you talking about? When in heavy lag?

 

 

P.S.  Interceptor with 500m/s max speed is just a fast fighter with 2 guns. Essentially anything below 550 is dangerously slow and hittable for interceptor, and you should be aiming to be over 600 when possible unless you know you can manage it without. This is both for reasons of maneuverability in combat as well as being able to roam the battlefield. Also CO int without nukes is… strange.

24

ended up writing a bleeding essay: here’s the short version continuing on what we talked about yesterday.

 

EB or Emergency Barrier = compulsory

I did do a cost benefit a few weeks back and came to the conclusion that it’s just mandatory the way things work in SCon for inties.

So 1 passive slot gone.

 

Survivability passives (resist and boost) = How far away you are ‘allowed’ to fly from heal range

I stopped using repair kits the moment I understood how engineers function and how important my own role specific active modules are

Ever since then I habitually fly within heal auras and turn back the moment I see the buff icons disappear

Only install these passives if you absolutely need to fly outside of heal range

 

Damage Passives

Range passive = regular damage at close/regular/longer range

Spread passive = max damage at regular range, max damage at close rage

RoF passive = higher than regular damage at regular range, higher than max damage at close range

 

Rule here is how well can you function at close range. ROF for close - Spread for closer than optimal - Range if you fail up close

RoF however is the only one that wont likely improve your game in interceptor vs interceptor dogfights.

Spread is better as the ‘overall’ module

I suspect RoF+Spread is better than 2 x Spread overall

Stacking RoF or Range has it’s uses.

 

Resist vs White Noise Jammer

If it’s a case of 1v1 WNJ wins

If your function involves receiving multiple lockons, Resist module wins

I favor WNJ because it is a team module (saving my captain, engineer for eg.)

 

Speed vs Survivability Ship Mods

Same consideration as survivability passives

If I operate within heal range I stay with speed fits by default

as for Damage vs Speed energy mod, well smart play can substitute for speed but not necessarily damage.

 

Missiles

I stick to same damage type as main for rockets. Personal thing coz if I’m hitting what I’m shooting at with my guns so will my rockets kinda logic. As for large ordnance - NUKE for covops. your team could use the nuke count. Torps and whatever, well you have non covops to carry those. If not then the opposite damage type missiles help.

 

My fittings

I fly both ECM and Covert Ops and they are the 2 extremes to each other

ECM using survivability setup, resist on ship mods and a mix on passive. resist on implants.

Covert Ops well its all speed and damage.

I dont do particularly well stats wise on my covops but gets the job done every run. 1,112 dps pulse lazors ftw

25

Ah, yet another person that looks at the stated DPS of a weapon and thinks he’s seeing actual damage output.

 

Hint: pulse lasers are among the lowest actual DPS weapons in the game at the moment. Reasons range from doing wrong type of damage for current meta (everyone and their grandmother stacks thermal resist) to hilarious spread and low range even with appropriate mods.

26

ik ik

 

was messing with it when i was with Mapoko

 

got enticed at the fact that I could do 600 dps if i had the right blues lol (556 currently) range 750m

 

I went in with it for a few games and the kill rate against interceptors was visibly higher than RFRs. Does nothing on anything else but atleast I know.

27

Also CO int without nukes is… strange.

Minefields. Much more useful considering more people can just run away from nukes being deployed.

28

What wobbliness are you talking about? When in heavy lag?

 

 

P.S.  Interceptor with 500m/s max speed is just a fast fighter with 2 guns. Essentially anything below 550 is dangerously slow and hittable for interceptor, and you should be aiming to be over 600 when possible unless you know you can manage it without. This is both for reasons of maneuverability in combat as well as being able to roam the battlefield. Also CO int without nukes is… strange.

 

I can not seem to figure the nukes with the 10 sec delay thing. I use it then wait then it explodes. Or I use it go into fight it comes and damages both me nad my opponent. I die. 

EM torpedoes drop a frigate’s shield so I can literally 2 shot it later with kinetic.

 

I too fly ECM and CO interceptors and use in different situations (not just 1 in all).

I did some changes to my ships while discussing in this topic and they feel a little better in my hands now !

29

EB or Emergency Barrier = compulsory

I did do a cost benefit a few weeks back and came to the conclusion that it’s just mandatory the way things work in SCon for inties.

So 1 passive slot gone.

 

I’ve used it before, with mixed results.  If your hull’s that low, your a major target and you’ll be hunted until you can find a heal point.  If you’re playing detonation, it makes you drop the bomb!!!  I’d rather get that extra 500m nearer to the station, and maybe even plant the bomb.  It amazes me how many games I play where the other team ignores the bombs, and my team as well.

 

Minefields. Much more useful considering more people can just run away from nukes being deployed.

 

I second this.  Reach a beacon, drop a mine, maybe get an easy kill or assist.  Being tailed?  Drop a mine, they might hit it.  Circling in a dogfight?  Hit hard reverse and drop a mine, they’ll come around.

30

OKAY HOLD THE TOPIC. Why did I miss this thread?! Im a EXCLUSIVE Kite Covert Ops pilot and I somehow over looked this?!

 

Look like you need to learn from the master.

 

I need specific questions directed to me to be able to answer them.

31

Have you ever played Detonation and carried the bomb?  My ECM maxes out at 537 m/s, and still over 400 m/s while carrying the bomb, good for outrunning fighters and frigates.  Engineers are getting fast.  There’s a 90% chance while carrying the bomb you’re going to get incoming fire.  If you get hit enough, EB kicks in, and you drop the bomb, even if you’re right at the station while planting!

 

I’ll take a 10% shield boost over a one second barrier that can cost the match.

32

The questions should be in 2 categories :

Dogfight :

Pros and cons  as dog fighter (Int vs Int/Fighter) against Ricasso.

 

  1. Weapon type for that role ?

Please compare the lasers vs plasma vs railguns (and assault or short range).

From what I hear (I do not use them) lasers suck really bad hitting target once shields are down especially vs small hulls.

 

  1. Speed vs tankiness ? 

 

  1. Maneuverability - they have the same. Does speed actually factor rotations (except for making bigger circles ofc) ?

 

  1. Passive and Active modules ?  Especially the computer slot. Crit chance, Spread or Reduced time on disables ? 

 

 

Frigate Kill and run :

 

1  weapon : My choice is RFR, but what about RFP ?

 

  1. Missile/mine slot. I use EM torpedo and mines now EM torpedo so I can drop the shield of engineer and just burst with kinetic and plasma lance, but lately I do not see much use of the torpedo. Please discuss.

 

  1. Strategies vs each type of frigate ?  Maybe skip the long range as they are just free kills.
33

Dogfight:

  1. If you know how to aim well, RFRail is hands down best dogfighting weapon in the game. If you do not, your options are:

a. Assault plasma

b. Rapid fire plasma

c. Pulse lasers

These require completely different modules. Specifically RFPlasma and PLasers require electronic guidance everywhere you can stick it, while assault plasma can use firing speed increase.

Finally if your idea of “dog fighting” is similar to that of people playing standard, then you need stabs.

  1. Speed is tankiness for interceptors. You “tank” by not sitting in the enemy crosshairs and coming at them from angles that they can’t see you from.

  2. Dogfighting and high speed positioning rely on turning speed as well as maximum speed. In most cases, interceptors are maneuverable enough to fly vanilla or with just the implant however.

  3. There is only one currently viable CPU slot mod: proton wall. You need CC reduction to live through stasis and ions. Semi-viables include spread reduction and crit increase mods.

 

Anti-frigate combat:

  1. RFRail has TERRIBLE dps in comparison to RFPlasma even after the recent buff. You have a good alpha strike, which works well against low hp targets that lose a good chunk of hp in an opener. Frigates are not those targets. To kill a frigate, you need a sustained barrage of fire. That’s why frigate killers use heavy guns and sometimes something like rapid fire plasma.

Notably exception to this is in squad play where you aim to melt a frigate in short amount of time. In those encounters, RFRail can potentially eclipse damage potential of RFPlasma. Rule of the thumb: if it takes noticeably longer then duration of orion to kill the enemy and enemy is slow enough for you to have 100% accuracy, you’re probably better off with RFRail over RFPlasma.

  1. Nuke and kinetic rocket for me, but this is purely a matter of taste. Some people like ion missile for shutdown, some people like minefields, some people like something else. It’s about your playstyle, and CO has wildly varying play styles depending on the pilot.

  2. a. Skilled long range is not a free kill by a long shot. I would actually avoid engaging good snipers because your chances of survival are pretty low - they’ll be in their frig ball and can effectively one shot you into your EB in close range with impunity. To quote krogan from mass effect “it’s a good thing there are so few of them”. Random solo snipers are “come and eat me” material.

b. Guard frigates allow for multiple approaches depending on the situation. You can pass it by and try to bait out pulsar and minefield, or you can try shooting at it from range, or you can try flying around it eating the pulsar, or you can use nearby structures for cover. Or you can just abuse friendly lolheals and tank a lot of damage. All of these approaches have counters. You need to learn them.

c. Everything that applies to guards also applies to engineers, except that engineers always have heals but are and less damaging.

Important: In most cases, all these points are moot, because frigates stick in the ball and you have no business attacking it, other then as a suicide rusher.

 

Edit: coherence

34

Hmm, i know it is a hard choice… but there can be ships WITH high amount of hull and high speed for T3 like Hawk-Eye? 

It has probably much hull and it has speed 314 and it has Microwarp Engine(if you dont like the way with Hawk-Eye skip it) but if i was you i would choose the fastest one because if you use the empire rank 1 implant you probably get 40% more hull and that makes that fast ship better.

35

You make no sense. Hawk-eye is R7 trash tier recon that has little hull or speed due to being fed and lacking key modules and implants.

36

You make no sense. Hawk-eye is R7 trash tier recon that has little hull or speed due to being fed and lacking key modules and implants.

But, when compared with T2 ships…

37

The thing i mean i just that these ships we are talking about is almost the same ships but Ricasso may be better.

But the thing i am wondering is that Ricasso and Kite are the same thing btw why does Kite need  rank 9 and Ricasso  only needs rank 8?

38

Dogfight:

  1. If you know how to aim well, RFP is hands down best dogfighting weapon in the game. If you do not, your options are:

  2. RFR has TERRIBLE dps in comparison to RFP even after the recent buff. You have a good alpha strike, which works well against low hp targets that lose a good chunk of hp in an opener. Frigates are not those targets. To kill a frigate, you need a sustained barrage of fire. That’s why frigate killers use heavy guns and sometimes something like rapid fire plasma.

Notably exception to this is in squad play where you aim to melt a frigate in short amount of time. In those encounters, RFP can potentially eclipse damage potential of RPR. Rule of the thumb: if it takes noticeably longer then duration of orion to kill the enemy and enemy is slow enough for you to have 100% accuracy, you’re probably better off with RFR over RFP.

Mind doin quick edit for your RFP/RFR? i was under impression that:

RFP = Rapid fire plasma

RFR = Rapid fire railgun

I believe there are couple places that you cross reference them. 

39

The thing i mean i just that these ships we are talking about is almost the same ships but Ricasso may be better.

But the thing i am wondering is that Ricasso and Kite are the same thing btw why does Kite need  rank 9 and Ricasso  only needs rank 8?

Hawk-Eye is not “almost” the same ship , a) its different role, b) it is rank7, so it has no place in this discussion.

Ricasso doesn’t need rank 8 it is rank 8, that what developers decide, “balance!”

40

Kite and Ricasso is the same ship i didnt say that Hawk-Eye was, and i dont understand the sense with ‘‘Ricasso desn’t need rank 8 it is rank 8’’

And there stand that Kite needs rank 9 when Ricasso and Kite has the same roles and ALMOST the same hp and stuff?  :01414: