Sadly I am not well established in T3 yet(Still got a lot of credits I have to spend atm) so I can only theorise fits, and can’t get real EHP(and other stat calculations on ships) so I can’t tell if some people just fit badly, or if some ships are really just that bad. Which is why i’d love to have a test server to test that kind of things.
Like (federation engineers vs empire engineers) vs (federation guards vs jericho guards) in terms of stats, all kinds of interceptors and fighters. But theorizing without a useful tool or possiblity to actually test it is useless.
Hmm what do you think about buffing too weak ships instead?
As the quote below said, the problem is dps. The damage between T2 and T3 guns is merely doubled, whereas the overall survivability (I’m taking into account modules and not just base stats) is a lot higher. I’d suggest a gradual change to this, though… Maybe up the dps to 2.5/3x and, if needed again, tweak it further.
Problem is damage output in T3 is not high enough. Buff all weapons in T3 would be easier but interceptors might suffer as a result. Wrote a long post about it [here](< base_url >/index.php?/topic/19998-do-you-think-the-current-nerfs-to-the-engineer-frigate-broke-their-balance/page-2#entry203989).
But if you’re buffing everything, I’d hate to see 100k survivability ships in T3… Guards DO need a buff in their own tank, seeing as they’re LESS tanky than Engineers (correction, the Crus-S is less tanky than the Cerberus 2).
However, the Federate Guards do seem to have more hp than Jericho Guards, but that’s just a fantasy, considering they don’t take as much advantage of the Phase Shield, they just have a large armor buffer to run to cover. I’d personally like to see their armor lowered and their shield buffed so they use the Phase Shield more often.
Lately, everything else is put in the background because T3 is comprised of Frigballs… Upping the weapon damage might fix this, somewhat…
Oryngton, buffing weapon DPS by 3x would be INSANE. Gunships could rape 10 ships in 15 seconds than(crit increase+crit damage implant+RoF+assault plasma, not taking any other mods in consideration, i can already think of some other mods…) not even 5 cerberus 2 would likely survive that!
The problem with guard EHP is the fact that phase shield isnt calculated in there. So while it says 55k, it might very well be 80k+
I don’t think DPS is the problem, merely the survivability of some ships.(Altho honestly, dieing in an engineer isnt all that hard once you get focus fired, your tank will be gone before you can move)
Oryngton, buffing weapon DPS by 3x would be INSANE. Gunships could rape 10 ships in 15 seconds than(crit increase+crit damage implant+RoF+assault plasma, not taking any other mods in consideration, i can already think of some other mods…) not even 5 cerberus 2 would likely survive that!
you ninja’d me, but it still applies, I’m note even sure if turrets really increased in damage from T2-T3.
Let’s just take a theorized weapon for a second,
current 300 DPS.
would become 900 DPS, per turret(on a gunship) total 3600 DPS,
then the 50% crit increase, and let’s say you do double the damage with a crit, that is ~4800 DPS(before resists) then +50% ROF, so lets say a good 7k DPS. then you got other mods, like +10% ROF, +10% damage etc…you could probaly get to 10k DPS in a gunship!
you ninja’d me, but it still applies, I’m note even sure if turrets really increased in damage from T2-T3.
Let’s just take a theorized weapon for a second,
current 300 DPS.
would become 900 DPS, per turret(on a gunship) total 3600 DPS,
then the 50% crit increase, and let’s say you do double the damage with a crit, that is ~4800 DPS(before resists) then +50% ROF, so lets say a good 7k DPS. then you got other mods, like +10% ROF, +10% damage etc…you could probaly get to 10k DPS in a gunship!
Yeah, I guess I was shooting at the moon on that one…
Let’s say… Rapid Fire weapons do +100% damage to Interceptors, +50% damage to Fighters, and no bonus vs Frigates.
Then, as we climb the weapon classes, we start to see more and more damage buffs moving towards the other end…
Assaults might do, say, +75% vs Int, +50% vs Fighter, +25% vs Frig.
“sniper” weapons might be… +50% / +75% / +50%
And finally, Heavies: +25% / +75% / + 100%
Obviously these numbers have just been plucked out of thin air, but it might work to break the deadlock; it also means there’s some clarity of purpose to the guns. Want to go frigate hunting? Bring a big gun! Throwing RFR / RFP at a Frigate is all well and good, but your guns don’t have stopping power and they will tank the damage. Aim a drokking huge anti-ship beam cannon their way, on the other hand, and they melt.
Let’s say… Rapid Fire weapons do +100% damage to Interceptors, +50% damage to Fighters, and no bonus vs Frigates.
Want to go frigate hunting? Bring a big gun! Throwing RFR / RFP at a Frigate is all well and good, but your guns don’t have stopping power and they will tank the damage.
It doesn’t fit the current meta
rapids are interceptor class weapons. hi DPS to make up for inty’s 2 turrets. close range, hi spread to make sure frigs don’t exploit it with their 6 turrets (back then)
then you have the ship’s Rock Paper Scissors - inty being frigate killers - so…
Let’s say… Rapid Fire weapons do +100% damage to Interceptors, +50% damage to Fighters, and no bonus vs Frigates.
I find that too weird and don’t really fit in.
Instead of trying to go against the grain, why not amplify the current system?
By this I mean class limited weapons ie. putting weapons on ships they were meant for?
What I had in mind:
Interceptor can use
Rapids and
Assaults but with penalty
Fighters can use
Assaults and
Long Range but with penalty
Frigates can use
Long Range and
Heavy but with bonus
It’s much easier to balance weapons damage and other things this way. And easier to add new weapons into the game coz you have some control over who gets to use what.
I don’t really like the idea of role-based weapons. For instance, gunships are perfectly playable with hail plasmas or rapid rails. Limiting the types of usable weapons would further pigeonhole the roles, making it harder to cover up for missing roles on the battlefield.
rapids are interceptor class weapons. hi DPS to make up for inty’s 2 turrets. close range, hi spread to make sure frigs don’t exploit it with their 6 turrets (back then)
then you have the ship’s Rock Paper Scissors - inty being frigate killers - so…
I find that too weird and don’t really fit in.
Instead of trying to go against the grain, why not amplify the current system?
By this I mean class limited weapons ie. putting weapons on ships they were meant for?
What I had in mind:
Interceptor can use
Rapids and
Assaults but with penalty
Fighters can use
Assaults and
Long Range but with penalty
Frigates can use
Long Range and
Heavy but with bonus
It’s much easier to balance weapons damage and other things this way. And easier to add new weapons into the game coz you have some control over who gets to use what.
Hm, so you want game to be more like nowadays’ shooters? Two weapons+grenades (rockets in our case)? But how many pilots would agree to this kind of game?
Anti, just leave the weapons as they are. I’d prefer to be able to use all sorts of guns. If I want to shoot high-power shots on my inty, let me have hail plasma.
Hm, so you want game to be more like nowadays’ shooters? Two weapons+grenades (rockets in our case)? But how many pilots would agree to this kind of game?
What Kine’s basically saying is for the “beta” to actually BECOME a beta game. You’re experimenting to see what works and what doesn’t and working around the feedback for it.
This is YOUR excuse to actually do something that fits with how you’re describing the game and you wiggle out of it every single time.
Splitting the weapons by ship class and adding 1-2 more per class makes sense and it doesn’t break the current meta by a lot. Hail Ceptors are very rare and so are Heavy Weapons Fighters. In contrast, there are a lot of Rapid-Fire/Assault Frigates that are going to be mad if these changes actually go through.
And no, it won’t be like “nowadays shooters”, because on those you ALSO only get to choose 1 weapon from a very wide selection of them, so the game has always been like that, you’re just making it more class-specific.
I think Kine’s idea might work and it’s rather useful for future tweaks and changes.
I dont see the problem with the current system? All it needs to balance tweaks! You guys are making it all so difficult :S In the end they will still have to balance them, and let people choose their own role… Want to be close-up in your face engi? go ahead, take -weapon name- want to be a sniping inty? sure, go head, take -weapon name- and have fun!
This game needs more good balance tweaks, and less game-changing changes…(Because 8.0 totally didn’t screw up at all or something…)
And oryngton your excuse is laughable at best, since when have the devs ever reverted to an old better system? If they do it, we are stuck with it. And I DONT want any more changes they can’t revert if its utterly crap.
And oryngton your excuse is laughable at best, since when have the devs ever reverted to an old better system? If they do it, we are stuck with it. And I DONT want any more changes they can’t revert if its utterly crap.
Here’s the thing, sunshine. Things WERE better, before. The ship role change came to completely flip the game upside down and people got used to it fairly easy. The problem came with the following patches, which just made it worse and worse and worse. In case you don’t believe me, take a look at the number of active pilots. Every time I logged on, before the ship revamp, I used to see 3-5k pilots online. Now you’re lucky to even see half that many. Things ARE worse. Only a blind man would ignore that.
Here’s the thing, sunshine. Things WERE better, before. The ship role change came to completely flip the game upside down and people got used to it fairly easy. The problem came with the following patches, which just made it worse and worse and worse. In case you don’t believe me, take a look at the number of active pilots. Every time I logged on, before the ship revamp, I used to see 3-5k pilots online. Now you’re lucky to even see half that many. Things ARE worse. Only a blind man would ignore that.
LOL, 3-5k people? are you high? I have NEVER seen more than 2k people on at once. Hell, last time we got 1.6k people on, their servers went haywire and the whole game started degrading(uncontrollable ships…) so i find it hard to believe 5k people were ever online at once.(definitly not in the time since 7.8 where i started playing actively)
The game hasnt lost its number of active pilots at once, its still 1.3k which it has always been around ever since i started playing.
and 8.0 was crap, and the changes after it have kept it in crap state…nothing really chnaged since 8.0
LOL, 3-5k people? are you high? I have NEVER seen more than 2k people on at once. Hell, last time we got 1.6k people on, their servers went haywire and the whole game started degrading(uncontrollable ships…) so i find it hard to believe 5k people were ever online at once.(definitly not in the time since 7.8 where i started playing actively)
That’s right, 5k people. Or very close to that number. This was BEFORE the ship revamp.