Star Conflict OBT v.0.9.6 Discussion

[2978877]

Lol, you are funny.

No one said anything about it, nor did anyone care. It worked, and you are making it sound much easier than it was. You didn’t need epic skill no, but why would you? This is a game, we play it for fun, not as a job.

 

And how are guards OP? 

You are so close minded it is actually making me feel stupid just talking to you.

Low skill ceiling, best performance and best group synergy out of all classes as of typing this. When guard ball comes your way, you run or you die. It’s impossible to hold an objective against a decent guard ball, and it’s even more impossible to take an objective defended by one.

 

And I suspect the only reason you’re feeling stupid is because I’m talking about the concepts you do not understand. Or do not want to understand.

[7452877]

then the only xxxx i can do is wait till this thing is fixed and play with damn lazors or bubbles?

 

Donnow… i actually can hit pretty decent with shrapnel or plasma gun (still plasma gun is usless as it always been in my opinion for pvp… ) … but have to say i never used to aim at reticle itself…honestly i always tryed to don’t loock a target if it wasn’t  absolutly needed…

 

Jut try to find where to shot withouth focusing on the reticle… use it as an arrow: it indicates the direction where the target is moving… nothing more nothing less. 

 

Or just play laser till next patch…

[1078853]

Not to the point it is today. Not even close. I say this as someone who used to fly with rapid fire rails with great success back when most people thought they sucked so much, they should be buffed massively. As a result, I have a great degree of melee range combat experience, and I’ve never seen aiming behavior that is so difficult to handle. I’m not sure what the new logic is, but it seems rather strange. It may help me adjust if I was told what the logic is exactly but we’re not told that.

Hmm okay. I can’t really say since I never aimed straight for the lead indicator anyway. That’s why the last patch made zero difference for me except for the now easier use of frigate weapons.

So except for my crusade against the lag I remain a bystander to this emotional discussion.

[2978877]

Regardless of any argument the fact remains that the weapon guidance system is a distraction more than an aid and should either be fixed or removed, or given the option to disable.

 

I know I won’t gain any pity here because everyone hates snipers, but I’ve been trying to level up my sniper ship so I can get the Styx, and it is HORRIBLE inaccurate on anything but frigates.

 

Before if I was _ skilled _ enough to hit the guidance marker on an interceptor even at 10,000 m, I could actually get a hit. Now it is completely useless, no matter how perfectly I align the cross hair. 

 

Emphasis on Skill because although it may “predict” for you, it’s still hard to get it on your target. I find Luckyo’s argument that lasers require skill to keep them on the target contradictory to his statement that the weapon guidance required no skill. The same logic applies, if you kept your cross hair lined up, you were rewarded.

That is simply false. If you’re not hitting it now, it means you weren’t skilled enough before. It just means that you were skilled enough so that aimbot could connect the shot for you.

 

Those who were good enough to hit it at 10km for real still can. I still land positron shots on interceptors 6km when they’re not in a full dodging mode. And if they are, I should not be able to reliably snipe them at such ranges anyway.

 

If you find the statement contradictory, then please explain the logic behind such a contradiction. I find no contradiction in the fact that it’s easier to aim a fully automatic weapon that effectively fires a constant tracer. In fact, you’ll find that any military guide will tell you that this is the very basic logic behind using tracers - it lets you see the stream of shots and correct shots based on where you see tracers go.

 

So if you want to argue with the logic, you may have to take on some of the most established and proven military concepts in the world. Good luck.

[7445062]

LOL…dude let’s play UT3 please. Pick up a server where u ping 8 and me 150 …if u socore 2 kills or i score less than 30 in a 20 minutes duel you automatically win. Tournament maps only offcourse…

 

EDIT : BUt if u lose u can’t post on this forum anymore, Deal? 

 

can’t say i really player UT. played 2k4 for a week or two i think… bad lag compensation and hitreg compared to quake/cs.

 

but anyways, your terms seem to indicate you’re not even serious. also, you do realize most weapons in unreal engine are hitscan… and it has at least some level of lag compensation. although unreal engine is still pretyt bad for FPS games. not optimized for them… it’s a toolbox for building large open worlds really…

 

?? Then explain me why aiming PERFECTLY at the reticle with railguns on a fighter is equal to 90% miss rate, I can’t get it.

 

inb4; lead marker doesn’t compensate for lag. but even worse, the server performs no lag compensation.

 

Basically the reticle is wrong… it always been… u should look at it more like an arrow indicating diretion than as target.

 

have you even tried sniping with gauss? try sniping at 4k+ when reticle is wrong and target is an inty with 100+ ping…

[4203428]

Donnow… i actually can hit pretty decent with shrapnel or plasma gun (still plasma gun is usless as it always been in my opinion for pvp… ) … but have to say i never used to aim at reticle itself…honestly i always tryed to don’t loock a target if it wasn’t  absolutly needed…

 

Jut try to find where to shot withouth focusing on the reticle… use it as an arrow: it indicates the direction where the target is moving… nothing more nothing less. 

 

Or just play laser till next patch…

 

Meh I can still hit fighters or guards with plasmas, but what I want to do when I fly my ECM is kill other interceptors, my ECM is a support that will obliterate that damned cov ops trying to kill engis or long ranges, at least that’s what it was before. Now I’m using lasers because it’s the only way to kill that damned mosquitos

[2978877]

Meh I can still hit fighters or guards with plasmas, but what I want to do when I fly my ECM is kill other interceptors, my ECM is a support that will obliterate that damned cov ops trying to kill engis or long ranges, at least that’s what it was before. Now I’m using lasers because it’s the only way to kill that damned mosquitos

Which is how shooter balance usually works. Fast firing low power weapons against fast, low health targets, and high power slow firing weapons against slow high health targets.

 

The other way to kill ints fast is mortars as they are fairly low power per shot but have AoE damage effect, but they require quite a bit of skill.

[3102387]

That is simply false. If you’re not hitting it now, it means you weren’t skilled enough before. It just means that you were skilled enough so that aimbot could connect the shot for you.

 

Those who were good enough to hit it at 10km for real still can. I still land positron shots on interceptors 6km when they’re not in a full dodging mode. And if they are, I should not be able to reliably snipe them at such ranges anyway.

 

If you find the statement contradictory, then please explain the logic behind such a contradiction. I find no contradiction in the fact that it’s easier to aim a fully automatic weapon that effectively fires a constant tracer. In fact, you’ll find that any military guide will tell you that this is the very basic logic behind using tracers - it lets you see the stream of shots and correct shots based on where you see tracers go.

 

So if you want to argue with the logic, you may have to take on some of the most established and proven military concepts in the world. Good luck.

 

See that’s funny because all of that crap started because the devs seemingly tried to nerf the positrons from what I understand from Antibus posts. The problem is that they went and fucked up everything else.

 

All in all they didn’t remove the aim assist totally, they made the zone that trigger it 4 times smaller. When I’m in my interceptor or my fighter and I got a 1-2 second window to line my shot it’s kind of hard to maintain the reticule on the sweet spot while in the middle of a furball. But who is stationary, got loads of time and nothing else to do than carefully follow the spot ? Frigate pilots with positrons, that’s who.

 

 

 

It’s just guesswork but I think that before you could shoot anywhere in the limit of the marker and trigger the aim assist. Now you’ve got to shoot in something about as big as the green spot. Shooting anywhere else in the marker is useless because the marker is bugged and the shots won’t merely be near misses but totally off-course.

 

So yeah if you can’t do the equivalent of a headshot on every shots then you got to lead your shots yourself like in good old WW2. You think they finally nerfed the frigates but they were probably the least affected.

[2978877]

See that’s funny because all of that crap started because the devs seemingly tried to nerf the positrons from what I understand from Antibus posts. The problem is that they went and fucked up everything else.

 

All in all they didn’t remove the aim assist totally, they made the zone that trigger it 4 times smaller. When I’m in my interceptor or my fighter and I got a 1-2 second window to line my shot it’s kind of hard to maintain the reticule on the sweet spot while in the middle of a furball. But who is stationary, got loads of time and nothing else to do than carefully follow the spot ? Frigate pilots with positrons, that’s who.

 

 

 

It’s just guesswork but I think that before you could shoot anywhere in the limit of the marker and trigger the aim assist. Now you’ve got to shoot in something about as big as the green spot. Shooting anywhere else in the marker is useless because the marker is bugged and the shots won’t merely be near misses but totally off-course.

 

So yeah if you can’t do the equivalent of a headshot on every shots then you got to lead your shots yourself like in good old WW2. You think they finally nerfed the frigates but they were probably the less affected.

False. The auto aim was actually about as big as the old “positron snapping”. They fucked up pretty much nothing except close range predictor.

 

They did however stop compensating for bad aim. Which is quite a hilarious thing to blame the game for. “I suck at aiming, please add aimbot back”.

:facepalm:

[7452877]

can’t say i really player UT. played 2k4 for a week or two i think… bad lag compensation and hitreg compared to quake/cs.

 

but anyways, your terms seem to indicate you’re not even serious. also, you do realize most weapons in unreal engine are hitscan… and it has at least some level of lag compensation. although unreal engine is still pretyt bad for FPS games. not optimized for them… it’s a toolbox for building large open worlds really…

 

 

inb4; lead marker doesn’t compensate for lag. but even worse, the server performs no lag compensation.

 

 

have you even tried sniping with gauss? try sniping at 4k+ when reticle is wrong and target is an inty with 100+ ping…

 

I’m very serious.

 

At the moment i’m not the same player i was 4 years ago… considering i’m playing it not more than a couple of hour weekly and just having frendly match with my old clan mates for fun… but trust me, i’m sill capable enought do don’t let u score more than 2 kills (probably simply 0 … but i’m taking a small margin becouse as i just told i’m not the same player i was for sure )

 

Anyway, Unreal Tournament (all of them) is not an fps … is THE FPS. 

 

I don’t think i’m gonna lose my time anymore with somene thinks “unreal engine is bad for fps”… i’m sorry but a crap like this is just too much… 

[3102387]

False. The auto aim was actually about as big as the old “positron snapping”. They fucked up pretty much nothing except close range predictor.

 

They did however stop compensating for bad aim. Which is quite a hilarious thing to blame the game for. “I suck at aiming, please add aimbot back”.

:facepalm:

 

And the positron “snapped” when the wobbly reticule thing it have entered the lead marker and thus I don’t think I’m so wrong.

 

Star Conflict OBT v.0.9.6

General changes

 

…

Weapons

Automatic weapon guidance is now 4 times weaker

[3338318]

 

The other way to kill ints fast is mortars as they are fairly low power per shot but have AoE damage effect, but they require quite a bit of skill.

lolwut, coil mortar require more skill than other weapons? lolz. Now I know you are trolling us.

[3102387]

False. The auto aim was actually about as big as the old “positron snapping”. They fucked up pretty much nothing except close range predictor.

 

They did however stop compensating for bad aim. Which is quite a hilarious thing to blame the game for. “I suck at aiming, please add aimbot back”.

:facepalm:

 

I realized I could just grab a positron and check for sure where the “snapping” sweet spot is now. Lo and behold it’s nearly exactly in the spot I indicated, test it for yourself Mr Aimgod.

[7445062]

I don’t think i’m gonna lose my time anymore with somene thinks “unreal engine is bad for fps”… i’m sorry but a crap like this is just too much… 

 

if you were a programmer, you might understand. unreal engine is a toolbox. it’s optimized to support dozens or hundreds of players in a single zone (it also loads ‘zones’ in the background, like if you enter another part of the map, it will start caching, etc…), not for precise positioning and lag compensation on the millisecond level. also, since it uses BOTH hitscan weapons and lag compensation, you end up with strange things happening, like shooting people around corners, hitting someone with no damage, etc… it’s the same problem COD/MW suffer from. quake 3 engine didn’t have that problem, since there were no hitscan weapons other than shotgun/railgun.

[2978877]

lolwut, coil mortar require more skill than other weapons? lolz. Now I know you are trolling us.

At close range? It certainly does, you must know the order in which barrels fire.

[7445062]

At close range? It certainly does, you must know the order in which barrels fire.

 

it requires miracles, not skill. lmao

[Kine]

I’ll start by naming names. Luckyo, Alek, Kostyan, Zerk.

 

All interceptor pilots who connect to the game < 80ms or thereabouts.

 

Main points trying to sell:

• Aimbot helped people to land hits previously

• Those who cannot land hits now are people with low skill levels who needed the aimbot to play

• tl;dr you guys need to man up and learn to aim and fly

 

So they say.

 

That is not the truth. And people are mixing up server side shooting, lag compensation and aim assist. These are 3 different things which I believe where the patch broke the shooting mechanics.

 

1. Aim assist is a handicap given to inaccurate shots. Games like COD for example and almost all the other console shooters. Game checks your shots and if it’s close enough to the actual target, server will award you with a hit. It’s a nubtool.

 

Luckyo is selling the idea that aim assist existed for all weapons before and explains to you all that the reason why you are missing all your shots now is because aim assist is taken out. It could be the case but that isn’t the primary contributor to us missing.

 

2. Server acknowledged shots. Heck I dunno what engineers call this. All I know is how other games supposedly work. Shooting in other games say Counter-strike is handled by the client. You would receive information on your target’s coordinates and your PC renders the model. You then shoot at said target and this info is passed on to the server to process. This is an example where shooting is handle by the client and the server only processes that data to determine an outcome.

 

Shooting in Star Conflict is different. It is delayed. Shots you make requires the server to acknowledge it before your ship starts to fire on your end. This is what I have a problem with. I’ll explain why in just a bit.

 

3. Lag Compensation is a method where the server takes into account your lag in order to award *fair* results. It is virtually unreasonable to expect any number of players connected to the same game to have the exact same latency. Without lag compensation, If two players saw each other and both clicked shoot, the hit will always be awarded to the one with the lower ping. So imagine if both had an insta-gib weapon and shot each other at the same exact time, player with lower ping will live, higher ping dies. That is why lag compensation is put into place. Because in reality, the higher ping player might have actually clicked to fire first but the data sent by the lower ping player reached the server first so he is awarded the kill instead - which is wrong and unfair.

 

Now imagine a game where

1. shots required server acknowledgement

2. no lag compensation

 

The effects of difference in latency is expounded. Not just because of hit detection; which I can live and compensate for. But it also affect accuracy. Here’s why

 

 

position 1 is where you see the enemy on your end and decided to click shoot

position 2 is enemy position on your end when server fires off your gun towards 1

position 3 is the actual enemy position in reality when your guns are firing at 1

 

It ain’t so bad if he’s the only one moving and you remained stationary. But SCon being the game it is, you are most likely orbiting him while he is orbiting you thus the problem expands.

 

In this environment there is no way to systematically place your shots. This is not skill based. This is luck and more importantly …

 

Ping based.

 

The reason why you are missing your shots now is because of high latency times. And when I say high ping times I don’t mean 400ms or 500ms like me. People connecting from the USA at 130ms are missing their shots as well. Skill may or may not be a factor for this or that player. But that is only worth talking about when you are judging others and the accuracy of their opinions. This is not required when comparing myself pre and post patch because my level of aim is not an unknown to me. My aim is a constant factor.

 

So the uneducated might try to school me by saying I only land my hits previously because of the aim assist.

This is also wrong because my measurement on my personal accuracy is not based on hitting another ship or kill score.

It is my ability to group shots together on the move at a known speed and executing a known maneuver. And I am definitely missing my shots now because of miss timing.

 

Then there is the excellent logic given to me not only by fellow players but even technical staff from the game.

 

“Bro - you ping 2 high man. Can’t play no online game.”

 

For those who wish to learn something new, you might want to google and read up on network latency. Quality of connection affects gameplay more than actual ping times. Say a player in Seattle connects to a server in LA, his normal ping time should be about 60ms. If for some reason he is connecting at 130ms then there is a connection quality issue and he will suffer latency related problems in-game. Now a Malaysian player connecting to the same LA server will ping at 150ms which is his normal travel time. That Malaysian player I can guarantee you will not have the latency related problems the Seattle player has in-game despite pinging higher. The longer travel time is geographic for the Malaysian player. The higher than normal ping time for the USA player is a connection quality issue.

 

I’ve been playing at high ping times for years. I’m sniping headshots from across the map at 200ms - 300ms and it’s something Asian players have to develop a skill for when deciding to play online games where the majority of servers are located in the USA. Just for info, connection time from where I am in the world to Russia is faster than it is to the USA. Yet ping times to SCon RU server (500ms) is higher than to SCon USA server (250ms). Geographically N.America is almost twice further than Russia is to Malaysia (14,000km LA vs 8,000km Moscow).

 

Whatever it is, the patch broke the shooting mechanics. It’s effects scales with ping times. People with higher ping will suffer higher accuracy penalties. And this should not be a rule. Other online games manages that issue and are able to keep things fair between players no matter where their ISP is located in the world.

 

And just to prove a point:

 

Gooseman, father of modern team based tactical FPS games, co-creator of the original Counter-strike at one point in history the most competitive online multiplayer game opened the doors to his latest creation. I will not name the game out of respect. I downloaded it yesterday and when I saw a RUSSIAN server on it I couldn’t help myself but to play on that server and record the game.

 

 

Isn’t so clear but enough for you to make out that all the Russian players in that match were pinging double digit while I was doing almost 270ms.

 

I finished the match top of the scoreboard with 19 - 4 K/D

 

Why is that possible?

 

1. Does the game have aim assist? Gooseman using aim assist in his latest game he needs to prove to Valve with ?

2. Or did I have a low ping? And everyone else had too high a ping they shouldn’t be playing online games on ?

 

Answer to 1 and 2 is No.

 

There were no aim assist. No everyone else had lower ping than I did. But I topped the scoreboard. Why?

• Because that game, that is skill based.

• It allowed for fair play by handling lag fairly

 

Star Conflict today is ping based and that is why I end up with scores like this:

 

 

where (Bot)Helen evidently had more ‘Skill’ than I did.

 

In case you doubt the game I was on is in Russia - 25 minutes - 700MB - Russian guys in my team on voice chatter.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pH_AQZjPOSw

 

 

I did not decide to ‘ragequit’ on Star Conflict.

I was forced to stop playing because ‘I lag too much’

 

And I’m sorry but from my POV that just sucks coz I like this game. So much in-fact I sunk money into it. Still have 2 months license in-fact which I cannot make use of. So … 

 

~ rawr ~

 

and thank you Gaijin I guess.

[3180143]

it requires miracles, not skill. lmao

 

My accuracy with coil mortars has improved since patch, partly because I don’t bother targeting when I use it, and the other part being that interceptors seem to think I can’t hit them if they’re orbiting me close range.

 

But I also have never kept track of the order the mortars launch.

[2978877]

My accuracy with coil mortars has improved since patch, partly because I don’t bother targeting when I use it, and the other part being that interceptors seem to think I can’t hit them if they’re orbiting me close range.

 

But I also have never kept track of the order the mortars launch.

If you don’t you may have a moment where you fire off a mortar that cannot fire at the sector you’re aiming at, whereas another cannon could have fired at the same sector, but it’s not its turn to fire so it can’t. That causes the entire system to jam. It’s fairly important to remember the order in close range combat so that weapon doesn’t jam at the worst possible moment.

 

I can’t really do it myself, because I don’t have much practice with that weapon. I prefer flexibility of positron cannons because I’m currently pushing LFRs until I can get jericho R12 guard. I do have an epic T4 mortar stashed for the guard when I get to leveling it, and I’ll have to learn the mortar then.

[2940710]

Sorry to hear, Kine. 

I hope it gets better soon. 

 

Yet Im disappointed, that the devs dont give a statement what they are going to do about it…