Star Conflict OBT v 0.8.0

Mercenary Center Patch Discussion
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  1.  IMO this game is p2w.  Just because you say it is less p2w than another game does not change anything.  True skill-based f2p games use microtransactions for cosmetic items or for boosters which accelerate progression but offer no combat advantages. It is p2w games, like this one, which offer combat advantages for cash. 

 

Now, if I played this game for years and unlocked everything, then maybe I could say that I am at a roughly equal level as someone who buys ships and items.  But right now, grinding through progression, I most certainly am not at an equal level.

 

Lets say, for example, that I am just buying my first rank 4 ship.  It has low synergy and full mk1 fit.  Yet I can be matched against players in rank 6-7 ships with full synergy and full mk3 or gold items. This is not balanced 1v1.  I am at a huge disadvantage.  The devs want me to feel like I am at a huge disadvantage so I give them cash.  

 

Some time ago, I had another option.  I could queue with lower rank ships, which did have max synergy and full mk3 fit, until I had enough credits and loyalty to better fit my higher rank ships.  Now, this nerfs my progression by a factor of 10 (reputation reduction due to ‘fighting players of lower rank’).  Thats right, if I queue with a rank1 ship I get 100 reputation for a win instead of 1000, so I can’t progress.  The ONLY way to progress is to put myself at a disadvantage versus players who spend gold or have more progression, and I must do this the ENTIRE time I am grinding through progression.  

 

Please compare this to a true balanced skill-based system where the cash shop sells licenses (accelerate progression), plus stickers and other cosmetic-only items (could be alternative ship models with identical stats, different color lasers with identical stats, etc.).  Now tell me again how this game is not pay2win.

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Now, this nerfs my progression by a factor of 10 (reputation reduction due to ‘fighting players of lower rank’).

This is plain untrue. I ground rank 9 in empire in my rank 6 ships just fine. I was limited by credits, not rank.

 

Of course, since matchmaking was “improved” I still got matched against players in T3 pimpmobiles in my Dwarf 2. I take it as a compliment.

243

A lot of things folks don’t like about this new patch but I noticed one thing I really appreciate – my remapped keys display properly in the modules to which they correspond.  That is very nice!  Even knowing the keys that I had reset I’d still find myself being fooled by the default key shown in the module.  Now they have my remapped key.  This is great for folks like me who tend to forget … um … stuff. :fed013:

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  1.  IMO this game is p2w.  Just because you say it is less p2w than another game does not change anything.  True skill-based f2p games use microtransactions for cosmetic items or for boosters which accelerate progression but offer no combat advantages. It is p2w games, like this one, which offer combat advantages for cash. 

 

Now, if I played this game for years and unlocked everything, then maybe I could say that I am at a roughly equal level as someone who buys ships and items.  But right now, grinding through progression, I most certainly am not at an equal level.

 

Lets say, for example, that I am just buying my first rank 4 ship.  It has low synergy and full mk1 fit.  Yet I can be matched against players in rank 6-7 ships with full synergy and full mk3 or gold items. This is not balanced 1v1.  I am at a huge disadvantage.  The devs want me to feel like I am at a huge disadvantage so I give them cash.  

 

Some time ago, I had another option.  I could queue with lower rank ships, which did have max synergy and full mk3 fit, until I had enough credits and loyalty to better fit my higher rank ships.  Now, this nerfs my progression by a factor of 10 (reputation reduction due to ‘fighting players of lower rank’).  Thats right, if I queue with a rank1 ship I get 100 reputation for a win instead of 1000, so I can’t progress.  The ONLY way to progress is to put myself at a disadvantage versus players who spend gold or have more progression, and I must do this the ENTIRE time I am grinding through progression.  

 

Please compare this to a true balanced skill-based system where the cash shop sells licenses (accelerate progression), plus stickers and other cosmetic-only items (could be alternative ship models with identical stats, different color lasers with identical stats, etc.).  Now tell me again how this game is not pay2win.

 

 

You just went full xxxx bro.

 

Did you even read what I wrote? Sigh. THIS IS NOT PAY2WIN. You are not getting a combat advantage you are getting a progression advantage. You are rarely matched in rank 6-7 ships, and they EARNED those mark 3s. Have u even looked at gold stuff? Compare them to normal stuff and you will see that THERE IS NO COMBAT ADVANTAGE. I dont even see how this is is a grind. You are getting decent rep and exp from matches. Loyalty you get from contracts and a good amount form loot. I got about 32k loyalty just from loot yesterday. 

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LOL!

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Sooooo I will admit I was somewhat looking forward to the changes at first.  Changes to the tech trees, changes to contracts, sector conquest, all sorts of good role stuff for things.  What they seemed to be selling us looked good…  I was optimistic.  The game has come a long way since alpha and pretty much in a good way.

 

I watched the forums yesterday while at work, seeing some of the complaints but no real detail.  So I was still optimistic…I mean seriously if people weren’t complaining that’d be a warning sign that they didn’t deliver anything they said they would.  When you’re talking about changes to the tech trees, and roles and all that and no one complained afterwards?  Thats a huge red flag.  People don’t like change and resist it in general. So complaining was at least not a warning sign to me.

 

And then I got home and experienced it.

 

After spending an hour trying to figure out wtf they did (Seriously going from hey I have guided torpedos to lol phase shield was >.< at first) I got down to playing.  It wasn’t the same game I was the night before.  Same game modes sure…but nothing played remotely the same.

 

There are thing that I love about the new patch, and there are things that I abhor.

 

Good:

Well Defined Roles - Good, easy to see who to protect, who to go after, and so on and so forth.

Modules - Before going through multiple different things to get to the right kind of gear to work with your ship.

Sector Battles - Yay something more than completely meaningless battles

Loyalty Loots - Hooray for that

Pulsar no longer shooting through terrain - Finally

 

 

Bad: 

Super Strict Roles - Soooo little customization available.  There’s virtually no choice in modules or how you set things up.  Roles are good, but at this point we’re only given the illusion of customization.  This is one step foward and two steps back.

 

Sector Battles - Our corp was indep cause our CEO hadn’t logged on, and because me and another corp mate didn’t have the same contract we couldn’t play pvp since there was no one in arcade.  That was terrible…as are the other things like that.  Then again there doesn’t seem to be any feedback that fighting did anything? 

 

Tech Trees - Holy xxxx seriously?  Again one step forward two steps back…why are there so many dead ends?  Why is it set up that if you want to play a certain style you have to buy into styles you don’t want, or don’t enjoy?  Who the hell thought that was a great idea?

 

Faction Identity - Seems to have disappeared…Everything seems to pretty much be ubiquitous now.  What the hell is the point of factions?

 

 

So in my estimation we didn’t move forward so much as we moved sideways.  And really we need  to move forward from here, and half way back towards where we were.  Customization needs to be more than lip-service.  The factions need to actually feel different.  The tech trees need to be something other than an exercise in frustration…  Sector battles should at least seemingly mean something…seem to progress.

   

247

You just went full xxxx bro.

 

Did you even read what I wrote? Sigh. THIS IS NOT PAY2WIN. You are not getting a combat advantage you are getting a progression advantage. You are rarely matched in rank 6-7 ships, and they EARNED those mark 3s. Have u even looked at gold stuff? Compare them to normal stuff and you will see that THERE IS NO COMBAT ADVANTAGE. I dont even see how this is is a grind. You are getting decent rep and exp from matches. Loyalty you get from contracts and a good amount form loot. I got about 32k loyalty just from loot yesterday. 

 

 

Might want to use your eyes, xxxx. compare premium ships to earned ones. for example the “Strong” vs the Katana Type S, Roles are great, role bonuses not being given out to all ship types of a role (hydra 2 vs alligator M, engineering bonus).

 

This game is closer & closer to pay2win. and in fact, premium ships are better than earned ships in most cases.

 

“No combat advantage” - if you continue to stick by this point, you are an ignorant fool. then again you are listed as being from minnesota, so I suppose there is that.

248

I’m curious why you think interceptors are broken now.

 

I feel like they’re just balanced really oddly. Covert ops seems blatantly better than the other two and recon in particular seems pretty awful as soon as you hit tiers where people are tanky enough that basic weapons don’t cut it anymore.

 

Overall, I seem to have the same level of success with interceptors at T2 (since tankiness is still relatively reasonable), but T3 interceptors just seem sort of…pointless. I recognize that I’m not flying the best ones in the tier (though for Federation, there isn’t a best recon in the tier), but I felt like I was accomplishing significantly less than usual between the paper-thin armor and decided lack of firepower/debuffs with recon modules.

 

I get that microwarp itself is powerful, but it feels like I can’t accomplish much of anything when I do get places at this point. I don’t think the “scouting is just as important as attacking/defending” idea was a very good one - stopping invisibility is nice, but scouting doesn’t mean very much in a game where sightlines are often very open.

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Might want to use your eyes, xxxx. compare premium ships to earned ones. for example the “Strong” vs the Katana Type S, Roles are great, role bonuses not being given out to all ship types of a role (hydra 2 vs alligator M, engineering bonus).

 

This game is closer & closer to pay2win. and in fact, premium ships are better than earned ships in most cases.

 

“No combat advantage” - if you continue to stick by this point, you are an ignorant fool. then again you are listed as being from minnesota, so I suppose there is that.

 

Another idiot. And you resort to personal attacks. How cute. They are better because of now repairs, and faster reloads. I dont see how thats a combat advantage. Maybe to you cause you really suck. 

250

I’m curious why you think interceptors are broken now.

 

I feel like they’re just balanced really oddly. Covert ops seems blatantly better than the other two and recon in particular seems pretty awful as soon as you hit tiers where people are tanky enough that basic weapons don’t cut it anymore.

 

Overall, I seem to have the same level of success with interceptors at T2 (since tankiness is still relatively reasonable), but T3 interceptors just seem sort of…pointless. I recognize that I’m not flying the best ones in the tier (though for Federation, there isn’t a best recon in the tier), but I felt like I was accomplishing significantly less than usual between the paper-thin armor and decided lack of firepower/debuffs with recon modules.

 

I get that microwarp itself is powerful, but it feels like I can’t accomplish much of anything when I do get places at this point. I don’t think the “scouting is just as important as attacking/defending” idea was a very good one - stopping invisibility is nice, but scouting doesn’t mean very much in a game where sightlines are often very open.

 

Exactly, I play t3. 

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This game is not pay to win.

 

People just dont understand the diference.

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This is not p2w.  its pay not to grind.  With the recent changes it has removed the cheese builds.  Now you have to play the objectives.  If you camp in your spawn you will get an inty up your exhaust manifold.  People rage because they are under the impression that ship progression is the game.  Its a team based game now no more easy buttons lol.  Let the people rage the Devs are on the right track.  The game is harder for a lot of people now so expect more hate.

253

Probably not your intention but you kind of implied everybody that dislikes this patch are “stupid ragers”. I’m certainly not raging myself, just disappointed. I mean, this was going to be _the game. _And for a while, it was. But unfortunately like many games that I thought were going to be The Game (such as Ace Online, Black prophecy, Vendetta Online, Heroes in the Sky) it went a direction I just could not follow. 

 

While I have spent money on this game, I do not regret it. The good times I had before this patch were easily tenfold what I paid. The developers certainly earned every cent. I agree on the point that this is far from a “pay to win”. It’s more like “pay or grind slightly more” which is certainly not broken or worth whining about. Especially considering the “grind” can be done by just playing the game. And @ the people whining about this game’s cash shop: If you really want to see a pay to win game go try Ace Online or Dark Orbit. You’ll learn the true meaning of P2W the first time you run into somebody in combat. You could drop $800 and not even come close to the equips that most people have in those games.

 

While matchmaking was a lot better when broken up into tiers (in my opinion), it wasn’t completely unbalanced and was still very playable when they switched to the new system.

 

The new ship tech tree leaves something to be desired… hell, the old ship tree was fine! “If it ain’t broke don’t fix it!”- etc.

 

Sector Conquest is just Arcade with an arbitrary map inconsequentially linked to it. Its just pointless at the moment, I don’t see how its any more or less fun than arcade. But maybe they’ll enhance it somehow… only time will tell. Being able to choose what sector to invade/defend would make it actually interesting and strategic. Which kind of brings me to my final point.

 

Customization definitely took a huge hit. And maybe it doesn’t affect some as it does me because I very much love customization. For me, there is nothing like the thrill of discovering a new build that is both original, unique, and effective. But for now everyone is stuck with cookie-cutter builds. Boring.

 

I’m glad people still enjoy this game, that it still has that initial spark for them that it had for me. But I guess I’m back to looking for a new “The Game”. 

254

Exactly, I play t3. 

Oh - I misunderstood, I thought you meant they were too good after the patch and I was wondering what I was doing wrong.

 

Yeah, I’m hoping the next balance patch comes quickly. It’s understandable that things got a little out of whack with so many big changes, and I do like the overall character of the changes, but I hope the readjustment period isn’t particularly long for the more obvious problems like guardian tankiness or interceptor weakness.

 

Though there was already weirdness with T3 interceptors in that, at least for me, I tend to die a lot more in interceptors, so the fact that repair costs go up faster than reward actually means that my T2 ships are better earners, which strikes me as really weird and sort of disappointing.

255

Might want to use your eyes, xxxx. compare premium ships to earned ones. for example the “Strong” vs the Katana Type S, Roles are great, role bonuses not being given out to all ship types of a role (hydra 2 vs alligator M, engineering bonus).

This game is closer & closer to pay2win. and in fact, premium ships are better than earned ships in most cases.

“No combat advantage” - if you continue to stick by this point, you are an ignorant fool. then again you are listed as being from minnesota, so I suppose there is that.

FYI this patch was roles not bonuses. Jericho gets screwed on bonuses ATM, because devs have not finished balancing bonuses yet, which is probably why they implemented the role change first, easier than rebalancing the bonuses twice.

And yes, currently it may seem pay2win, but it isn’t. It was said above and I agree, it is pay2progress faster.

Also, I have been playing far less in past month as instead of grinding to a ship and having it changed, I felt it was better to just watch and wait. Seeing the crapload of ships and modules that have been refunded, I think that was a smart move.

256

Just found this while browsing the forums. Given the new update, it made me cry a little:

 

"27. Tell us more about playable spaceships?

There will be fighters (light, medium and heavy) and also frigates. Every ship is capable to carry plenty of modules which define its role and class, and players should be absolutely free to choose any set they find succesful. Also every class of ships is equipped with a unique module giving some extra special abilities - it’s intended to help these players who can’t decide what class to choose on the start."

 

Want to read the whole thing? Here: [http://forum.star-conflict.com/index.php?/topic/4256-answers-from-developers/?p=31142](< base_url >/index.php?/topic/4256-answers-from-developers/?p=31142)

 

Again, maybe you missed it, but this is what really stood out to me:

 

and players should be absolutely free to choose any set they find succesful

 

So, yeah. Food for thought.

this

 

Dear devs

 

Please PLEASE  PLEASE give us back the possibility to fit modules from other ‘specializations’, at least to fighters and intys. 

Add maluses (malusi, yes i know…), but give us back the choice.

 

At this moment the choice is virtually nonexistant: what can i do with my (newly) command ship? What choice do i have in fitting it? None. Valkyre, Aegis and than shield booster or flares.

Terrible.

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My premium ships doesnt need repair anymore. :slight_smile:

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3. Combat Roles

I absolutely LOVE the implementation of the combat roles system. One player said that this is limiting customization, but if you look at it closely, you will stop complaining. You customize based on what role you want to play in combat. Do you want to be the guardian? Great, there are ships and modules just for you. Do you want to fly recon? Great there are ships and modules just for you. This has also made combat a lot more dynamic and fluid, and is great for tactics. Now, if you want to organize a squad you can assign a role to each member. I have seen squads giving each player a specific role, and they have proved to be deadly, and can complete objectives a LOT faster than before. Also, the new modules are so fun, and I LOVE the drones on my cerberus. 

 

 

4. Sector Conquest

Most of you complain that you want open universe and sector conquest is just another name for arcade. SECTOR CONQUEST IS NOT OPEN UNIVERSE.  We were promised open universe, so just give it a few months. Now sector conquest is so much funner that arcade. You have a reason for playing now, while you battle you contribute to whatever faction you represent, and if you ask me its awesome to assemble a squad or two of friends or clan mates and go conquer the enemy sectors.

 

 

 

Some complaints:

  1. Guard ships are far too tanky. Yes they are for guarding, but come on 31k shield on a crus type s? Youll need three nukes to dent that. 

2. Interceptors are a bit broken now. 

  1. DPS nerf was too large. :frowning:

 

But hey this the early stage 0.8 so we will wait and see. 

 

 

And again, this is beta, if you dont like changes, stop playing and come back after the release. 

Godspeed pilots. 

 

 

On your point of customization…  The thing is within a role there is no customization.  Wheras before you could fufill any of these roles a number of different ways, different set ups, defensive, offensive etc.  You had choices on how to fit your ship to fill a role.  Now we have more defined roles.  More defined roles are great!  The problem is, your guard ship? Is most likely running the same as my guard ship…why?  Because there are no real options here.  Thats the problem.  Why even have modules and things of that nature if everyone is going to end up the same?

 

On your point of sector conquest…  The battles feel just as meaningless as arcade battles, ontop of that theres a whole host of issues that won’t allow you to play it.  If your trying to team up with a friend, unless you’re in a corp set up to support a faction you better hope you are earning rep for the same faction otherwise you can’t play together.  Nothing about the sector conquest battles makes it feel like I’m doing anything…  Does this battle actually change the balance there in that sector?  Who the hell knows…I certainly don’t.  Right now its just Arcade with a special name and ridiculous requirements for entry to the dance.

 

As for Guard ships being too tanky…  Mix your damage types.  Seriously…they’re not impossible to take down.  Letting them adjust to your damage easily allows them to seem invincible…because thats what that shield is supposed to do.  If you’re firing lasers at me…guess what I’m going to switch to thermal resist…Now if you were to activate em damage on those lasers theres a good chance i’m not going to notice and you’re going to be doing a lot more damage…

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My premium ships doesnt have de synergy level completed. Only 9/13. Why?

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Another idiot. And you resort to personal attacks. How cute. They are better because of now repairs, and faster reloads. I dont see how thats a combat advantage. Maybe to you cause you really suck. 

 

your still ignoring the fact that premium ships have bonuses, where earned ships are blank in many cases.

 

Combat Advantage = Pay2win. with the added benefit of no repairs & quicker progress as you can attain p2w ships up to 4 reputation ranks earlier in some cases. or at level 1 in the case of the desert eagle, which has an additional passive slot in comparison to the prometheus 2, how is that not a combat advantage? pay2win.