Squad Recruitment System Update Discussion

Game Discussion Balance
1

 

Star Conflict’s CinnamonFake announced [new changes in the battle recruitment system](< base_url >/index.php?/topic/33040-squad-recruitment-system-update/)  (patch Star Conflict 1.4.1b) :

  1. squads from 3 or 4 pilots get much faster into battle
  2. no longer any limitation on the number of destroyers in battles and
  3. no longer requirement of mandatory pairs of destroyers in battles

See a more [detailed description here](< base_url >/index.php?/topic/33047-new-changes-in-the-matchmaking-system/).

In my experience 3-4 player squads still take longer, what are your say on match maker and the new squad/wing recruitment system

SYNOPSIS of IDEAS (author):

  1. take tech level barrier more into account between t3 and t5 (by avarshina, et al.)
  2. remove the +/- 3 rank system in match maker (by Oregyen, Niripas, et al.)
  3.  

CHANGES TO Match Maker (MM):

* Since March 10th (SC v. 1.4.1b) battle mode PvP (‘Skirmish’) has 4 overlapping tiers:

  1. Easy: battles between ships from rank 1 to 5
  2. Medium 1st level: battles between ships from rank 5 to 7
  3. Medium 2nd level: battles between ships from rank 7 to 10
  4. Hard: battles between ships from rank 10 to 15

SPECIAL BUFF BONUSES by RANK in PvP (Skirmish):

Easy difficulty    bonuses per rank
Rank     Damage     Resists (shield& hull)
01        25%            45%    
02        20%            30%
03        15%            20%
04          5%            15%
05           –                –

Medium 1st difficulty    bonuses per rank
Rank     Damage     Resists (shield& hull)
05        ?? not revealed yet
06
07

Medium 2nd difficulty    bonuses per rank
Rank     Damage     Resists (shield& hull)
07        ?? not revealed yet
08
09
10

Hard difficulty    bonuses per rank
Rank     Damage     Resists (shield& hull)
10        40%            55%
11        35%            55%
12        20%            50%
13        10%            40%
14           5%            30%
15            –              20% (< that’s a joke, not?)

2

Here we go with vigilants again…

3

The differences between t3 PvP and t5 PvP should be taken more into account.

4

Why is there still a rank limit, you should be able to equip a rank 10 13 and 15! If there is only one queue please remove these restrictions, they are from 2014 and have no use in the new polished Queue system.

5

The new hard difficulty bonus  per rank 15 , that is still a 20% buff in shield and hull resists bonus doesn’t make sense. It is a confession by the devs that PvP t5 is 20% overbuffed in (average) general. Taken the special Tharga problem into account r15 Tharga might be 2 or 3 times overbuffed (because it means out in statistics).

In this recent post CinnamonFake did not reveal the difficulty    bonuses per rank for ‘Medium 1st’ nor ‘Medium 2nd’ difficulties.

6

Why can’t people just equip a ship normally and play? Instead, they use and abuse every possible edge like it’s a matter of life and death if you win or not. If it’s not tharga then it’s a r10 guard with proximity mortars + rank bonuses into oblivion. This is why we can’t have nice things (balance).

7

You speak like from my heart!

But, it is only some very knowledgeable and skilled players which would abuse… I never played this obvious tweak (r10 guard w/ proximity mortar and build to calculate in the system buffs = more DPS oriented)

I did stop playing destoyers, when it became a pain in the xxxx for many players in PvP and now I suffer its nerf (2,5 time damage underv 750m) even in Open Space (I hate it). ![:012:](<fileStore.core_Emoticons>/emoticons/012.png “:012:”)

 

8

P.S.: I would say its a problem with the reward system: too much quick and easy kill numbers oriented - thats main thing that counts, sadly!!! Too much reward per kill - does disadvantage strategic play.

9

On 11.3.2017 at 10:25 PM, ORCA1911 said:

Why can’t people just equip a ship normally and play? Instead, they use and abuse every possible edge like it’s a matter of life and death if you win or not. If it’s not tharga then it’s a r10 guard with proximity mortars + rank bonuses into oblivion. This is why we can’t have nice things (balance).

seriously, what is the abuse on using the kinetic guard with a kinetic weapon? its not “abuse” at all.

i did not choose the anaconda mk2 for the damage bonus from underrank, but the resistance bonus, amount of cap slots, and the kinetic ship bonuses. its easily denied in a r15 game. way easier than a vigilant, or supertharga. and kills also a lot slower than darts, gargoyles, vigilants or thargas. and even if you might not believe it, the damage bonus actually has little effect on its usage. its the remote detonation and aoe, that denies thargas to evade.

in the first week, i did overuse it, but that was mostly success with the “surprise effect”. by now, it is easily denied, as it has bad range, and underrank ships still usually have less buffer, way easier to primary. the conda2 isnt really tanky.

also keep in mind, i e.g. bought that weapon, because I knew i will be good with it. i am just good with flaks and machineguns, in any game. Ask me mates. I generally tend to use terror weapons, because i know even more important than killing the enemy, is breaking his stance and morale. 

most people i saw with the proxy guards, were actually terrible.

there is nothing wrong here. except, that the weapon is exclusive and should be introduced for everyone.

On 11.3.2017 at 9:58 PM, avarshina said:

The new hard difficulty bonus  per rank 15 , that is still a 20% buff in shield and hull resists bonus doesn’t make sense

btw. the bonuses are still written wrong: you dont get resistance% bonuses. you seem just to get resistance points.

i would rather say, the damages of the weapons do not make sense anymore - especially the new weapons.

besides, the whole linear upgrading thing never made sense. the whole idea of ranks increasing all stats linearly is a terrible design concept in the first place. they are just there because of progression.

Also, hard is not effectively 10-15. unfortunately, hard seems now 13-15, and 10-13 are very likely mixed with r9s. That is crap.

10

It’s not about abuse as much as it is plain pathetic to enter a high-rank battle willingly with a lower rank ship just to gain the rank bonuses on damage and resistance and whatnot and play with a gs infused mortars. All i can do is rolleyes* and kill anyway coz 404 no fun found. Win clingy community i guess.

11

18 hours ago, ORCA1911 said:

It’s not about abuse as much as it is plain pathetic to enter a high-rank battle willingly with a lower rank ship just to gain the rank bonuses on damage and resistance and whatnot and play with a gs infused mortars. All i can do is rolleyes* and kill anyway coz 404 no fun found. Win clingy community i guess.

why is it pathetic, to take the lower rank ships? wtf is this logic? you new to this game?

Also, it was not “underranked” for the queue. The Queue begins with R10 for hard. It’s only underranked compared to the typical choice of a hard game, a R15. Which was, before this patch arrived, never really balanced, and felt like there was a r16 actually anyway.

yes taking the good old otherwise almost unused r10-r12 into r15 was one of the coolest things in the last year. I did it, and tried almost all ships through. I had tons of fun.

you get resistance bonuses, but your ship is weaker in general. and actually, that is how it should be balanced: lower rank, less options, more raw strength, higher rank: more modularity, less base strength - at least in every aspect.

with this, you had suddenly a lot more ships to try out, and before the tharga arrival, hard was balanced across 5 ranks. you could play the otherwise weaker low rank ships, or you could still enjoy the 13-15 - which are not so many overall. finally, there was no need for t3, because you know, that was always the magic of t3, that there were a lot of different ships for lots of different purposes. And we knew every single R8 and R9.

So explain to me, why you think this is pathetic. Seriously.  Besides the Proxy. Or is it simply the proxy mortar?

U know, i only got one, and its r12. i could not use in r15 even if i wanted to. and do you really mean, it would be much fairer, if i go kill R9s with it, like the current meta? where you basicly go kill t3s with darts and gargs atm, aka guys who say things like you do? THAT is pathetic.

 

Also, just so you know, a lot of people were first upset about the mixing of r10+ with r15.

Until they realized, it just meant, you finally can use implants, nobody used for ages, combine them with ships, you totally forgot, and create nice little niche builds.

T4 never existed enough anyway. This way, it was perfect. Almost every r10-r12 had some nice fits to use.

Anyone I met, who first was against the rank bonus system and mixing of t4+t5 into hard was, after trying to fly those ships with a new philosophy, totally excited about it.

Only those, who I never saw trying those ships out are complaining about that system. Because fairies and magic. And human idiocy.

Complain about the proxy  - all you want. I even support you that it should not be exclusive. but it has nothing to do with the underrank bonuses, which were a GOOD, VERY GOOD addition to the game, and SHOULD be open to be used. It is in fact the best addition this game had through these times of really screwed up mechanics arriving. It prevents an otherwise really selective and boring cookie cut r14-r15 meta mainly dominated by a handful ships, and makes r15 valuable because of their higher options to go something else, while the old t4 are the best choice for the straight resistance/damage playstyle.

12

If you have a dozen rank 15 (SP) ships and you still go for a rank 10 ship (with gs mortars) just to get that edge with rank bonuses, an upper hand, even if you are a seemingly good player, I personally see that as a extremely win-clingy approach and mildly to highly pathetic try of an abuse.

That system is there to help even out the chances between less skilled and “poorer” people in terms of ships and not to give better/richer players even more extras to win/obliterate others as if they need to do it. Sometimes you gotta think about the community, let it develop, dont stomp on it.

13

2 hours ago, ORCA1911 said:

That system is there to help even out the chances between less skilled and “poorer” people in terms of ships and not to give better/richer players even more extras to win/obliterate others as if they need to do it. Sometimes you gotta think about the community, let it develop, dont stomp on it.

that system is there to balance out those ships against each other in the same queue. NOT THE PLAYERS.

if you correctly progress your ships, the time you should need to cross t4 & t5 with a full medium queue experience (so all R9s full syn), is weeks. That means, all you really need is credits at that point. If you are skilled, you can play hard already, and the bonuses balance your ships. If not, you can play R9, and use free synergy. The new system even allows to already prebuy items for higher ranked ships and develop them.

This is fact, this is how it works.

If you however look at the game from a balance standpoint aka “fighting against each other”, your sentence makes zero sence. Why are poorer players in R12 now and richer players in R15? So why is it unfair, if me, who owns high rank GS ships and whatnot, takes a normal, white, R10 + R11 ship, and fits it properly?

Oh, and I am thinking about the community. It is you, who imagines some arbitrary poor souls who thinks that taking R10 as a good player is somehow overpowered.

If I am ranking R11+, I should be in hard, no matter what. And there is no excuse to point to me and tell me: “hey, you should be in a r15 ship”, as if my ship rank has to reflect my play age.

You are mixing ideas here. I did not choose to be in some weird inter-hard tier with that ship, I expected to fight with my R10, against R15. And where the hell should I feel now sorry if I play hard with a R10? If I kill R15 with a R10? It’s not like, those who can play, just kill me back two games later?

And if I land in medium, actually, the R9 Anaconda-M outclasses me anyway!

Problem is, with the new system changes, even if i put in R13, it puts me into medium. How is that fair suddenly? How is hunting R9s with Darts without any fear from vigilants et. al a good game experience? How is that helping those poor souls you are talking about!?

The system works well, if the new special niche ships, like dart, sawtooth, cutter, and gargoyle, who are far more balanced against a r15, including all the r10-r12 play on hard. And that is absolutely fair, as one expects hard games, if he / she goes to hard.

Just because the Proxy Mortar made that guard shine up, doesnt mean, i havent actually used R10 now for almost half a year, mostly in hard. if i had a r15 + ronin, be assured, the result would be similar. and the whole point of that ship was to kill thargas.

14

The System is puurfectly fine! U are just to noobish to get it. Ill will explain it so that everyone understands: It is to make game fair and balanced. Thank you!

15

You can argue all you want, it’s just ethics, not logic.

I can tell when a “nobody” (#nohate) uses an anaconda+proxies, he’s trying something, learning, i like that. His score fits his lesser knowledge/skill too.

If i do that, probably with an archelon (just for the sake of explaining my point) everyone clearly knows by now my fav roles are fighter roles and it’s dead obvious that im going to roflstomp every-single-person for my ego and a fat score.

The existence of the anaconda for instance was a myth until proxies came, unless you are a newcomer moving through ranks, you are probably a seasoned player well aware of things like rank bonuses, weapon and ship stats and are trying to find a hole in the system meant to help and not ruin someones play time. That is what i call pathetic behavior. 

If you truly like a lesser rank ship and play it because of that, by all means, play it to your hearts content, but if i see you flashing a fat score screenie stomping groups of people with clearly lesser knowledge and skill than you (random veteran player), i will, by default, call it pathetic, because it is.

I hope this is clear enough, i really dont like reading nor writing long posts.

16

15 hours ago, ORCA1911 said:

You can argue all you want, it’s just ethics, not logic.

no, it is emotions, and it is only you, who sees a behaviour to be dishonorable, because i, and maybe others, use some supposed secrets.

the player who is ranking through the ships, will see how ships are used, and adapt. the reaction of players can be seen through many games. people learn. What you do is, paternizing them, as if that would help them. No blame there, as I think, that is a natural reaction.

I understand your bitterness about the proxy - but mixing it with other things doesnt resolute in a clear opinion. Your opinion is illogical, and if you want to just be right, and point fingers at others saying “that is unethical!”, be my guest. But all you do is villifying certain behaviours, and deciding arbitrary, what a good player should play like.

I tried to show, that your words are inconsistent in themselves. We are talking about hard level games, the endgame tier. We are talking about people owning high rank ships, which can roflstomp anyone anytime anyway.

A good player is any player in my book. You just have to try, fail and learn, until you succeed. It is how you learn games. Now maybe, studying game design makes me look a bit more complicated at these things, but let me try put it like this: It was way more unfair to have not just linearly weaker ships to face stronger ships, but also the fact, that most “developing players” have to fight those off. You see the bonuses as a gift to them. But it isn’t. It simply is a fix, that actually, there should not be such a linear development, on a playing field, for it to be fun. It can be used as that, but that is why it is so important to me, to actually help those players with fits in those ships, which are truly effective, even if usually I like to concentrate on rather learning them to fish.

The players will still suffer, if they reach high ranked ships, and finish their synergizing. In fact, by trying to help them “feel secure in high ranks”, they usually skip fully synergizing lower rank ships, skip the learning curve they are supposed to play in low ranks.

What you see as a “noname” player having a niche experience, I see someone adapting by either being creative, or learning from experience.

It is not ruining someones playtime, in a game, where seasoned players fly with almost unobtainable one shot kill ships, when someone plays a card which basicly takes that away for a while.

A ranking player should not have to fly against R11+ ships until he is ready.

If someone gets his playtime ruined, blaming other players is a suggested behaviour by carebears. Because a carebear never learned to fight, endure defeat. So he seeks shelter in the attention of those he deems weak, because of his wealth. As hard as it might sound, sometimes those who seem only to arrogantly yell “git gud” actually dont mean it in a bad way.

The only hate messages i got for using that ship/weapon was from “vets”, btw.

But the only ones I respected were those, who used me as ally on my team, and removed me as enemy and forced me to change ship. But it cost them to just go tharga all the time too.

Anyway, #nohate is a good goal, lets just leave it like that.

btw. i use a r11 guard now, unfortunately, there is no r12 fed guard. and proxy on jerri is useless. So just understand my complaint, i find it not fairer, if people with r10 fits like me go to medium. I want to be in hard, because a R15 has enough to beat my “uber evil vet abuse”.

And if you accuse me of making it easy for myself, you don’t know me at all, dude. I love underrated, forgotten, risky ships, and I don’t care AT ALL about my numbers. I know exactly, neither max kills, nor high place on the scoring board actually always represents, what a warrior did in battle for victory.

17

Why are you so worked up by my opinion? It’s not like it’s going to change with longer posts.

18

13 minutes ago, ORCA1911 said:

Why are you so worked up by my opinion? It’s not like it’s going to change with longer posts.

Didn’t take you so long for you to read it obviously, and believe me, didn’t take me much to write it either. You assuming a lot here, but interesting, so your opinion is immutable. Well, if you don’t want to hear others opinions about your opinion, maybe you should keep it to yourself then

good day

19

Well it’s not like you show anything more than i do lol it’s a stalemate then

20

Beware: last time i answered Orca back and forth, I got a warning point “Excessive Flood” from Skula, while he, obviously having last word and even more flood-postings, got none … Analysis:  It was a warning according to opinion. They try to silence and backstab from behind. I call that “meshuggene”