2 minutes ago, Swifter43021 said:
There’s a huge difference between dying fast and being one shoted by an invisible fast ship.
Even a LRF survive for at least 10 seconds with orion + arc.
jericho and fed dessies don’t.
right
16 minutes ago, isalac said:
a destroyer should be hard to kill, just bc it’s a destroyer, or better change it name by frigate.
No it shouldn’t, if only because it’s only one ship.
No matter it’s classification one ship shouldn’t require team effort to destroy.
What you’re saying is basically " my ship should be superior to other people’s ship" which is no way to balance a PvP heavy game, you’re basically asking for a privilege when flying destroyers.
Thar’Ga killing it in one shot is simply because it’s OP and that needs balancing, covert op? Normal, every ship should have it’s foil.
31 minutes ago, Knight_ldr said:
No it shouldn’t, if only because it’s only one ship.
No matter it’s classification one ship shouldn’t require team effort to destroy.
What you’re saying is basically " my ship should be superior to other people’s ship" which is no way to balance a PvP heavy game, you’re basically asking for a privilege when flying destroyers.
Thar’Ga killing it in one shot is simply because it’s OP and that needs balancing, covert op? Normal, every ship should have it’s foil.
no mister, i don’t speak about MY ship, i speak about destroyers, if it shouldn’t have differences between destroyer and others ships, or frigates and recon, dev should put all ships in dustbin and just let us only 1 ship,: all equals, all sames. dev themselves had words for destroyers :
to remind you :
not my words ! dev 's words.
3 minutes ago, isalac said:
no mister, i don’t speak about MY ship, i speak about destroyers, if it shouldn’t have differences between destroyer and others ships, or frigates and recon, dev should put all ships in dustbin and just let us only 1 ship,: all equals, all sames. dev themselves had words for destroyers :
to remind you :
not my words ! dev 's words.
… You realize that the “dev 's words”, as you put it, have nothing to do with what you’re trying to sell here? Did you quote the wrong post or something?
What you’re asking is un-balanced, you want destroyers to be back to being superior to other ship classes in one-one basis, that’s just, well dumb…
Also you are talking about YOUR ship, you keep saying how when you fly YOUR destroyer it should take multiple people to destroy the ship it took YOU weeks to farm. You’re basically crying that your OP ship class is no longer OP and that if you can no longer be OP while playing it all other ships might as well be the same, I half expect you to be pouting while typing that.
Lol, make destro only for pve and they don’t be angry for end of op.
ships must be equals …Oo
sorry but no !!
for a long time SC design to be a team based PvP in wich player choose a class to take adavandtage with teamplay ”)
isn’t to be able to kill everything with one ship , there’s a big difference .
recon is perfect to hunting lrf but tackler with other ship on teamplay can encounters faster recon .
destroyer first was intriduce to cover ships at mid range , thats all ^^ . Not to be at T5 as a lrf at 8 000m with an instant kill shots .
the problem , players wants make kills with all ship but may be isn"t the main goal for each ship .
be carefull i don’t say a ship can’t kill oters ship but just when we play a command or an inge our goal isn’t to hunting a recon for example.
as the same way , Supressor class may be ins’t to be able to kills all ship but more we can deal AOE effect/dmg or some dps at perfect time to cover our team.
23 minutes ago, zzzfrogzzz said:
ships must be equals …Oo
sorry but no !!
for a long time SC design to be a team based PvP in wich player choose a class to take adavandtage with teamplay ”)
isn’t to be able to kill everything with one ship , there’s a big difference .
recon is perfect to hunting lrf but tackler with other ship on teamplay can encounters faster recon .
destroyer first was intriduce to cover ships at mid range , thats all ^^ . Not to be at T5 as a lrf at 8 000m with an instant kill shots .
the problem , players wants make kills with all ship but may be isn"t the main goal for each ship .
be carefull i don’t say a ship can’t kill oters ship but just when we play a command or an inge our goal isn’t to hunting a recon for example.
as the same way , Supressor class may be ins’t to be able to kills all ship but more we can deal AOE effect/dmg or some dps at perfect time to cover our team.
I agree, I think…
But the problem is that the OP doesn’t want destroyers to accomplish the role off " heavy fire support ships with significant fire power that can use additional energy shields and special weapons. "
He wants them to be killable only if a group of players gangs up on him, making any one ship, that can kill any other class if it can hit it, require team work to kill is a nightmare to balance around.
Think of it like a MOBA, like League of Legends for example.
Destroyers were champions that can dish enough dps to kill any champion one-on-one BUT also require 2 or more champions to kill, the whole game then would devolve around these champions and it wouldn’t be long before they are nerfed to balancable levels, which is what happened to destroyers.
1 hour ago, Knight_ldr said:
I agree, I think…
But the problem is that the OP doesn’t want destroyers to accomplish the role off " heavy fire support ships with significant fire power that can use additional energy shields and special weapons. "
He wants them to be killable only if a group of players gangs up on him, making any one ship, that can kill any other class if it can hit it, require team work to kill is a nightmare to balance around.
Think of it like a MOBA, like League of Legends for example.
Destroyers were champions that can dish enough dps to kill any champion one-on-one BUT also require 2 or more champions to kill, the whole game then would devolve around these champions and it wouldn’t be long before they are nerfed to balancable levels, which is what happened to destroyers.
And then, there’s bruisers in LOL,
Which are tanky AND powerful.
But are suuuuuper slow.
14 minutes ago, Swifter43021 said:
And then, there’s bruisers in LOL,
Which are tanky AND powerful.
But are suuuuuper slow.
Tanky and powerful sure, but can be killed one on one by a bursty dps who gets the drop on them.
They also don’t dish out the same amount of damage as a dedicated dps.
Remember way back when bruisers were so OP every match was about them? Which lead to huge nerfs on health based item and more % health damage and executes?
This is the same, Destroyers are getting nerfed because they became too much of a focus in matches, is it too much right now? Perhaps, but they needed to be brought down because having 3 ships focus one destroyer to kill it is not balanced.
P.S. Bruiser are super slow? They usually have gap closers, slows, speed boosts, pulls or blinks. Since they are initiators they are very mobile actually.
Which makes me come back to my last comment :
Why should the destroyer have absolutely no chance of surviving a covert ops under cammo ?
2 hours ago, Knight_ldr said:
… You realize that the “dev 's words”, as you put it, have nothing to do with what you’re trying to sell here? Did you quote the wrong post or something?
What you’re asking is un-balanced, you want destroyers to be back to being superior to other ship classes in one-one basis, that’s just, well dumb…
Also you are talking about YOUR ship, you keep saying how when you fly YOUR destroyer it should take multiple people to destroy the ship it took YOU weeks to farm. You’re basically crying that your OP ship class is no longer OP and that if you can no longer be OP while playing it all other ships might as well be the same, I half expect you to be pouting while typing that.
You don’t know what the ship class of destroyer mean don’t you?
26 minutes ago, Swifter43021 said:
Which makes me come back to my last comment :
Why should the destroyer have absolutely no chance of surviving a covert ops under cammo ?
Perhaps the part where I said an assassin can kill a bruiser if it gets the jump on it?
14 minutes ago, EndeavSTEEL said:
You don’t know what the ship class of destroyer mean don’t you?
Enlighten me then, because otherwise you have brought nothing to the discussion other then condescension.
15 minutes ago, Knight_ldr said:
Enlighten me then, because otherwise you have brought nothing to the discussion other then condescension.
Let’s make it clear and simple,
A destroyer are supposed to be heavy strong ship that can be used in any fight situation and in a right hand can change the result of a battle, this ship is also able to take care of multiple target and can be used to defend and also go in the front lines, creat a diversions and still be able to fight with heavy dmg.
Are they supposed to be superior to other class? Yes that why they got created.(look at any other space games, movies)
Now all we have is a frigate made of glasses. In no way a dessy should be taken out by 1pilot!
What if we got a full team of dessy then?
Well that exactly why the limit of destroyer in pvp battle was set to 3.
What about league and tournaments then?
Simple, do the same or take gunship with a focused fire team.
21 minutes ago, EndeavSTEEL said:
Let’s make it clear and simple,
A destroyer are supposed to be heavy strong ship that can be used in any fight situation and in a right hand can change the result of a battle, this ship is also able to take care of multiple target and can be used to defend and also go in the front lines, creat a diversions and still be able to fight with heavy dmg.
Are they supposed to be superior to other class? Yes that why they got created.(look at any other space games, movies)
Now all we have is a frigate made of glasses. In no way a dessy should be taken out by 1pilot!
What if we got a full team of dessy then?
Well that exactly why the limit of destroyer in pvp battle was set to 3.
What about league and tournaments then?
Simple, do the same or take gunship with a focused fire team.
I can agree with most of it, except the part in bold.
Destroyers IRL and most games is a fast escort vessel, it’s job is to protect heavier and slower vessels.
Take Dreadnought for example, destroyers are the jack of all trades masters of none, decent mobility, decent damage, health and shields.
What you described is not a destroyer in pretty much every other setting including RL, but a battleship.
If the changes are anything to go by, the devs don’t want destroyers to be the focus of every fight they’re in, which makes perfect sense.
Because it means, if like you say “in a right hand can change the result of a battle”, then the rest of the team is not as important, so everyone but the destroyers pilots are really playing the game while the others are there as their support.
Destroyers as the main focus of a match is what resulted in many people leaving and many avoiding this game, read a few Steam reviews, Destroyer Conflict did not help the game, at all.
Even if I don’t agree to the huge damage bonus against destros in close range. I don’t understand why a class of ship behind a grind/pay wall should have an infinite survivability on the field despite it’s pilot skills.
But let’s be honest for a sec, dessies were made so powerfull to attract money from medium low skills players. It worked, a lot.
Now they switched to the tar’gha wich not only is behind a grind/pay wall, but also need a minimum skill level (some forum warriors that are not whorth attention are begging for fame now in their thargarded ship, not talking about milf oc). So destroyer players are no more that important.
Lemme put it down like this: you are saying that all the hours (or money) you invested in this game are useless. I invested my time to improve my skills, my investment was made useless the first day they released destroyers.
5 hours ago, ntboble said:
I can survive with any frigate to a covop using plasma arc against me. Lots of then lately. Yet a destroyer is unable… Can we get a better way of balance destroyers?
Yes exactly my impression of the game. Ntbobles comment made me think if we could get the Phoenix drones for destroyer repair drones:
[Heavy Phoenix Drones](< base_url >/index.php?/topic/32844-make-destroyers-great-again-not-up-op/#comment-392336)
16 minutes ago, Spongejohn said:
…Lemme put it down like this: you are saying that all the hours (or money) you invested in this game are useless. I invested my time to improve my skills, my investment was made useless the first day they released destroyers.
Your skills are not destroyed by destroyers! Let me put it in other words: your experience with interceptor, fighter, frigate class ships got rebooted after a new ship class, destroyer süpressor class, was introduced: that is normal, you will develop new skills against destroyers over time. You also can ignore the destroyers and battle other ships.
If you cannot kill a destroyer by using old skills in a small ship, group and develop new strategies, ”) invest in time and new skill, again.
The experiences are also that skilled players can kill destroyers in no time. And that special new skills are required to fly a destroyer successfully. You have to learn to fly and to build your destroyer in the right way - not? It happened last winter, it happens this winter.
6 hours ago, Knight_ldr said:
- A Destroyers should be just a sturdier Frigate. not an unkillable flying fortress of doomy doom that requires team coordination to kill.
2)They way they were before was an un-balanced mess that was finally curved.
Pretty much agree with 1, disagree with 2 (they werent balanced, but its not properly balanced now either).
6 hours ago, Gizmomac said:
I only can repeat myself.
covops is normal. if it can get close to you your team s*ck hard, or your position was wrong. Destro is a normal ship not a miniboss. you don’t have to survive longer than any other ship.
Actually, destroyers are big and slow, require proper positioning to fire with a good amount of turrets, cant dodge most shots, healing is worse for all cases; they should definately survive longer than all other ships, that are faster and more agile (i do agree with the speed nerf for destroyers). And if a cov op gets close doesnt mean at all that your team s+cks hard or your position was wrong: when you are in the heat of the battle and a stealthy cov op comes from behind, plasma arcs and kills the destro in a few secs, there was actually nothing to do or foresee (the only one capable of doing something was the destro pilot if he had enough awareness to notice that cov op in time…to deal with the cov op by his own, cause you cant request for help to your team in random queues (cant ping cloacked targets)).
6 hours ago, ntboble said:
I can survive with any frigate to a covop using plasma arc against me. Lots of then lately. Yet a destroyer is unable… Can we get a better way of balance destroyers?
Thats right, destroyers survive less than frigates at close quarters. That makes no sense to me (you arleady have a very hard time hitting spinning targets).
Summing it all up: destroyers tank too much at mid/long distances, but tank too little at close quarters because…? Weird logic. Just reduce survability overall and you wont have this weird issue of passive dynamic effectiveness at different distances. Effectiveness is already different through pilot use (at different distances), theres really no need to increase that further. Why could i ignore some targets firing me at mid distance but are forced to deal with the same targets at close distances? Distance should not be such a crucial factor to determinate target priority in terms of dmg/survb.
1 hour ago, avarshina said:
Your skills are not destroyed by destroyers! .
It was, in small competitive matches: the team who have the major number or destroyers won.
That’s something can’t be denied. If you do, than it only means your knowledge is not enough. So better stop it here.
I don’t need to listen to: focus fire, group up etc. I had the pleasure to fight with and against the best players out there. Destroyers were op just because they need to sell them. Balance was severly, intentionally broken, to achieve more money income from newbees.
That’s the only true.
Now it’thar’ga turn, tomorrow will be something else. I predicted this years ago. Now enjoy your bitterness, destros are dead: if you want to be op again buy a thar’ga, gain some minimum skill and profit.
Competitive game is dead here long ago, whoevere sais something else,is just mocking you for his own personal reasons/interests.