Ships beyond T2 - Tackler and others useless?

Ships
1

I’ve almost completed the collection and fully syn of every boat 1-6. I spend a good chunk of my time now w/ t2/t3 fights. Now, I’m still very green - but it seems that certain boats are all but absent in the t2/t3 range. The tackler boats especially seem to be woefully underpowered. Is this trend present in the higher tiers of gameplay?

The tackler - one of my favorite boats - seems all but useless in t2/t3. The cooldown of the cloak is too long, the and the duration of the engine tackle is too short. Spy drones are nullifying the only escape/ambush mechanism for the class and the damage output is lacking when the hull is so squishy. It’s a shame too, I enjoy wolfpacking with my friends and shutting down inty and other targets of opportunity, but I’m finding myself being on the wrong end of the boom far too much compared with something simple like a gunship or frig.

2

From T3 onwards, Jericho tacklers become more viable, starting with the Katana AE. If you want a tackler with more survivability, try out Jericho tacklers. They’re much slower, but the improved survivability is good to have. Stick with ambush tactics; let the Fed tacklers do the pursuing. 

3

Engine suppressor is long enough to fully ionize tackled target. Even gaussing. Just remember to spam target painter everywhere (and inhibitor beam in t2)

4

I 'm playing the Fox-M for the moment and I really not try to engage any intie unless he has no clue that I’m here.

 

First thing, I start shooting in his rear without locking, then lock on and debuff him.

Launch a missile (EM missiles are more maneuverable, even if they do less dmg to hull / better if you’re closer) and keep focusing on him until he’s dead.

 

It can become tricky if you attract more intys, as you’ll be overrun and rapidly destroyed. ECMs are my nemesis since their debuffs have no counter (in T1/T2 at least)

 

If you fly Jericho’s tacklers, beware the recon’s “Shield transfer” perk, as your shield will be 2/3 your HP

 

If a recon you chase cloaks, cloak too and look around, their cloak is only 5 seconds.

5

I’ve almost completed the collection and fully syn of every boat 1-6. I spend a good chunk of my time now w/ t2/t3 fights. Now, I’m still very green - but it seems that certain boats are all but absent in the t2/t3 range. The tackler boats especially seem to be woefully underpowered. Is this trend present in the higher tiers of gameplay?

The tackler - one of my favorite boats - seems all but useless in t2/t3. The cooldown of the cloak is too long, the and the duration of the engine tackle is too short. Spy drones are nullifying the only escape/ambush mechanism for the class and the damage output is lacking when the hull is so squishy. It’s a shame too, I enjoy wolfpacking with my friends and shutting down inty and other targets of opportunity, but I’m finding myself being on the wrong end of the boom far too much compared with something simple like a gunship or frig.

 

Tackler is currently the hardest class to play in the game. It can be useful and fun, but the cloak gets countered way too easily, and is just too squishy to be considered a safe ship. A very underpowered class at the moment, I advise against flying it, specifically if you are a rookie.

 

You need (in order of importance):

 

 

  1. means to disengage

  2. effective dps

  3. ehp

  4. mobility 

 

Tackler has

 

  1. easily countered

  2. mediocre

  3. poor

  4. poor

 

Gunship has

 

  1. good

  2. great

  3. great

  4. situational

 

Command has

 

  1. just tank

  2. it’s a tank

  3. tank

  4. you’re tank

 

So why bother tackler?

Ecm xxxx you, e-drain, disable, stun, counters your debuff with bubble

Recon xxxx you, drones or micro, shield drain, you cant heal, you cant cloak, he can break your debuff by cloak or gtfo button

Covert ops breaks debuff and trouble with cloak, and will still out-dps, out-maneuver you if he is decent.

 

You can practicaly only prey on unsuspecting ships around the map, but other than that, you are extremely vulnerable and risky to fly. And the higher the tier, the harder it gets.

6

Covert ops breaks debuff and trouble with cloak, and will still out-dps, out-maneuver you if he is decent.

 

Covops cannot break tackler debuffs using adaptive camo; they’ll need WNJ for that. 

7

It can’t? That’s a bit weird. It should break it. Well, no wonder I don’t fly that thing anymore.

8

It can’t? That’s a bit weird. It should break it. Well, no wonder I don’t fly that thing anymore.

 

Tackler debuffs require line of sight to sustain. Adaptive camo doesn’t break LoS. 

 

Flying a covops while being tagged by TP sucks. You don’t show up on the radar but there’s a huge purple line telling the whole world where you are.

9

There is some serious imbalance in T2. Interceptors are far better than they should be, tacklers are lackluster. I know it’s beta and still in a constant state of flux, but this is pretty xxxx.

I’m still amazed a recon can MWD out of an engine disable. They need to change the mechanics of several CC debuffs if the tackler is indeed a tackling boat.

10

my only real problem with flying my silent fox is that from time to time i face off with interceptors who seems to be unaffected by my double “u are a brick” modules and retain their speed. 

 

this is really annoying and I blame a certain implant. Tackler class needs interceptors to not be CC-immune since tackler class is basically a CC machine.  

11

I would prefer to see guards as the CC class; they have AoE damage and debuffs.

 

 

 

my only real problem with flying my silent fox is that from time to time i face off with interceptors who seems to be unaffected by my double “u are a brick” modules and retain their speed. 

 

this is really annoying and I blame a certain implant. Tackler class needs interceptors to not be CC-immune since tackler class is basically a CC machine.  

 

Use your engine suppressor wisely. You can spam IB though; it has almost no cooldown as compared to survivability/restoration modules. Besides, the speed debuff immunity only has a short duration, so you can always reapply IB and stack on ES safely. (Unless your target has two survivability/restoration modules.)

 

 

EDIT: forgot to add this…

 

If you fly a specialized inty-hunting ship of any sort, first and foremost you need to have decent aim, even against intys. Learn their tactics, how they approach you, and how to position yourself.

 

But yea. They’re lacklustre. 

12

If you fly a specialized inty-hunting ship of any sort, first and foremost you need to have decent aim, even against intys. Learn their tactics, how they approach you, and how to position yourself.

 

 

I definitely would like to have access on a tackler to some of the weapons in the game that are overall better VS ints. Namely, the shotgun (shrapnel cannon) and pulse laser. I think these two weapons are specific anti-interceptor weapons and do belong thematically on a tackler. 

 

But yea. They’re lacklustre. 

 

 

 

I don’t think my silent fox is lackluster. I think it works very very well. I cannot 1v1 interceptors with it. But if I throw it into a mix of other ships than the interceptors and fighters on the other team seem to die a lot faster.

 

While i do not perform well on it as a solo interceptor hunter (I think that is expected, interceptors are the supreme 1v1 class in the game atm), as a support unit that makes the other players that much more capable and denies hit and run from interceptors i think it definitely performs well enough.

 

Overall i think 1-2 tacklers in a group that is otherwise other ships work well. more than that is too much. 

 

interceptors are the supreme 1v1 class in the game atm

 

 

That in itself is a problem btw. No subclass of ship should be able to 1v1 “most other classs”. A balanced game would be that any subclass can only win 1v1 VS 20% of the class population. 

13

I definitely would like to have access on a tackler to some of the weapons in the game that are overall better VS ints. Namely, the shotgun (shrapnel cannon) and pulse laser. I think these two weapons are specific anti-interceptor weapons and do belong thematically on a tackler. 

 

Pulse laser… not really. Shotgun tacklers used to exist. My god, they were sooooo powerful. Never tried other kinds of shotgun fighters though.

 

 

 

I don’t think my silent fox is lackluster. I think it works very very well. I cannot 1v1 interceptors with it. But if I throw it into a mix of other ships than the interceptors and fighters on the other team seem to die a lot faster.

 

If enemies on the other team tend to die to die faster, then you’re doing something right. The only question is whether or not you’ll be more effective in something other than a tackler. Sadly, more often than not, a gunship or a command would outperform a tackler.

 

 

 

While i do not perform well on it as a solo interceptor hunter (I think that is expected, interceptors are the supreme 1v1 class in the game atm), as a support unit that makes the other players that much more capable and denies hit and run from interceptors i think it definitely performs well enough.

 

Overall i think 1-2 tacklers in a group that is otherwise other ships work well. more than that is too much. 

 

Tacklers are not meant for hunting intys alone. IMO they make ganks more effective: TP improves everyone’s damage (as long as you’re hitting the TPed target); speed debuffs make it harder for the target to escape and easier for the team to aim at. 

 

 

 

That in itself is a problem btw. No subclass of ship should be able to 1v1 “most other classs”.

 

To be fair, they fare a lot worse when there’s a large cluster of enemy ships.

 

 

 

A balanced game would be that any subclass can only win 1v1 VS 20% of the class population. 

 

IMO balance means that every ship has its own role and usefulness. A jack-of-all-trades would be generally useful at everything, but it doesn’t excel any situation at all. A niche role would be very powerful in the right situation, but very useless in other situations. 

 

I’ll stop here. Balance is a huge can of worms that I don’t mind opening, but not in this thread.

14

IMO balance means that every ship has its own role and usefulness. A jack-of-all-trades would be generally useful at everything, but it doesn’t excel any situation at all. A niche role would be very powerful in the right situation, but very useless in other situations. 

 

 

While I do accept what you just said, “kill the other players” is too much of a commodity to be “a niche role” that you can afford to allow a single ship type to be “a specialist in”. 

 

That in the long run results in people just flying the “kill ship” and abandoning anything that does not outright counter it. You end up with a very narrow ship selection overall focused around “the duelist” class and “counters to duelist class”. 

15

Well… sticking together is a simple and effective defense against intys.

16

Well… sticking together is a simple and effective defense against intys.

 

i would say this

the role of the interceptor is to exert map pressure through mobility. 

the good ones do that.

and then if you stick together like one big ball

you lose objectives.

17

i would say this

the role of the interceptor is to exert map pressure through mobility. 

the good ones do that.

and then if you stick together like one big ball

you lose objectives.

 

You don’t need to cluster in a single deathball. Smaller squads could do just as well.

 

If I’m flying my Fed tacklers, I sometimes roam around and look for any teammate who’s caught unaware by an inty. Once it’s 2v1, it’s much easier to kill (or at the very least, repel) a lone inty.

18

3 v1 ceptor = dead ceptor, even if its 3 lrf