* Thread for pilots who wish to WORK WITH the new system *
Rollback requests, flames, QQ’ing and general emo blind feedback not backed up by actual testing and facts = Create your own thread
if you have the interest or inclination, this might be useful info to check out, test and tabulate even:
1. there is a ‘second’ spread factor introduced with the new weapon system.
– It’s like recoil in first person shooters. Spreads further the longer you hold down your LMB. Unfortunately where in FPS games you can counter this recoil by performing a pull down, this is not possible in Star Conflict. Possible solution is to make affected guns chargeable where accuracy is improved the longer you ‘aim’ it. One weapon is already functioning like that but not the others –
2. This second spread factor created another optimal range
– Previously we have a Max range. Optimal range is 75% of that max where weapons start to deal it’s advertised value. This new system modified that optimal range further because of the recoil effect. In ALL but one case so far, this new optimal range have been reduced to EXTREMELY close range between 750 - 900 meters. This includes fighter and frigate class weapons. I imagine you can figure out why it’s a broken weapon set already –
3. Broken TTK (time to kill)
– This new optimal range in it’s current state is unworkable. Those who still insist on shooting outside that actual ideal range (but still within advertised 75% of max range) will be doing sub-par DPS. If left uncorrected, this will compound to the healing / immortal effect. Tests done on Interceptor grade weapons for example showed NOT A SINGLE ONE was able to kill within an acceptable time frame. On a couple of other guns TTK on a frigate went beyond 2 minutes shooting within the max-optimal band (the operating distance for support class ships). ++120 seconds to kill ONE ship? –
4. Lack of Consistent Theme
– Old system had a theme behind it. An idea where there was a damage to range trade off. There isn’t one this time around. In-fact the opportunity cost between one gun to another within the same class still remains unclear. As is - there is a clear winner in each of those classes. If ‘mixing it up’ or presenting the player with a choice dilemma was the intended effect with the new system, it has failed to deliver. Again in each category, there is an effective weapon that outshines all others. –
5. Purpose of this thread
I am hoping established ‘technical’ corporations like Wolfpack, OWL, NOVA International, R4GE, NASA and other critical individuals would share their data concerning the new weapon sets.
6. Why would you?
1. Balancing and tweaking is a nightmare challenge
- despite claims of dumbing down and lack of options, the reality is - there is an even wider diversity between weapon sets and its’ possible intended uses. Dev team even contemplating trying to tweak these guns will have their work cut out for them. My fear is that they will end up doing a half arsed job and not getting it right the next few patches. (see how healing was handled. partial fix = 2 months)
2. Need for corp secrecy does not exist for this current weapon set
- While everyone would like to retain any tactical advantage they have, it can almost be safely said that current numbers and mechanics will not remain as it is now. It’s broken and needs changing. My proposal is we share data now, get it fixed the right way and when it starts to look like things will settle down to a working state, everyone can go back to classifying their files again.
3. Balanced Diversity works to YOUR advantage
- if there is a favored weapon per class then everyone will use it and tactical options are limited + predictable. Balancing the weapon sets will increase the chances of you meeting squads with mismatched loadouts to tactics more often, which in the end works out better for organized corporations.
7. How to go about this, step-by-step
[Fill up the form](< base_url >/index.php?/topic/20669-weapons-feedback-form/), lets define what function each of the weapons is supposed to fill currently
Decide if we want that weapon in the first place
Decide another weapon function if needed
x 4 for each ship class
Ideally we should end up with 4 guns in each class that can serve 2 or more roles for eg:
A ranged weapon for ECM and Recon but useless for CovOps
Run the numbers and balance all weapons to deal identical TTK or some other denominator
Then break them down ‘unfairly’ to create a trade off between the 4 weapons
And end up with a properly Themed Weapon Set
Request implementation, wait and review.
We need more weapons.
Maybe I sound like a spoiled kid here, but honestly I don’t even care if the weapons are balanced if we only have 4 to chose from! Sure devs, go ahead and try to balance the numbers a bit. Nerf the hell out of that bubble gun. But the biggest focus should be adding more. At least double the amount of choices of weapons to choose from in the next couple patches. It doesn’t even matter if they aren’t super creative for now, just make guns of varing damage, range, and other parameters and add them to the game. Then as a community we can then go through hell trying to balance them all.
EDIT: I think you are shooting yourself in the foot by seperating this into two different threads really.
More weapons will definitely be needed.
Suggestion: Change Singularity Cannon to Anomaly Generator Main Weapon
Singularity’s purpose is an overpowered hard counter to frigate spheres. It fails in 2 ways:
1. It fails because a blueball spam destroys everything in it’s wake including interceptors and fighters, not it’s intended targets
3 ships spamming blueballs will cover a huge volume of space even interceptors have difficulty dodging out of the way
let alone slower and bigger fighters
smaller ball radius will not solve this because you’d make up for it by adding more ships to spam them balls
slower projectile speed does not solve it coz you make up for it by leading the target further
reducing the damage and it fails to perform it’s intended function that is of a frigball breaker
2. It fails because 2 on 2 versus a frigate = 100% succcess
skill is not a required factor
teamwork is not a required factor
reducing the damage and it fails to perform it’s intended function that is of a frigball breaker
Main weapon with improved Anomaly Generator mechanics as replacement
Changing direction or moving your mouse will not cancel the timer.
Bigger splash damage radius
Everything else works the same, You need to hold down your LMB until countdown is over. And your crosshair must be on target at all times to continue the countdown. Line of Sight needed.
Why is this better?
- Singularity is a Fire and Forget weapon. Anomaly Generator is not.
blueballs are FF weapons and that is the source of the OP
You don’t need to track the target like all the other main weapons do.
Each shot you make has a chance of causing damage while at the same time you make new shots, each of which also has the potential to inflict damage.
- Lower chance of hitting Interceptors and Fighters
Needing to track your targets is what makes speed and turn rate a combat factor
Anomaly generator as a replacement means the anti-frigate sphere role can function properly without harming other ships it’s not intended to target
- Fairer odds in 2 versus 2 situation
Singularity’s biggest advantage in a 2 versus 2 is that the Frigate’s ally cannot intercede effectively
ie. you cannot defend a friendly Frigate against 2 fighters. Or against 1 fighter + 1 other ship.
Main reason why it works is because the attackers can do 2 things at once: Attack your frigate AND avoid you both at the same time.
With the Anomaly generator they can only do 1 thing at a time. Shoot at the frigate OR fly defensively to avoid you.
- Skill and Teamwork is a Factor
Not much to say other than having to track your target is skill based
Expert pilots can do both, attack AND fly defensively if he is good enough but that is a fair reward for skill
Going both ways, the defending frigate and his bodyguard can win the 2 vs 2 if they have a fair amount of skill and teamwork themselves
Damage can remain high to keep it’s function relevant
6 shots to kill a frigate spread over 30 or so seconds is fair
Splash damage must be high with a large radius to compensate the change in mechanics
Make its damage scales with its hit box, problem solved.
It’s funny now I realize that almost everything in this game now related to designing something that can kill frigates better without being called OP.
Since none makes a new topic, I’ll continue the discussion here, it was about weapons after all.
Guard indeed needs a close range weapon
LRF, why do I have to have a long range weapon while I have a 120000m canon or 100000m missile? I have the long range weapon already, give me something I can defend myself with in close range.
Engineer: Actually with this awesome nerf in healing and warp gate, people will ignore Engy most of the time, since their can’t do any damage, I feel it happens, no one cares about killing Engy when they are dogfighting anymore. And they will come to Engy when their hands are free, or when they are seeking for kills either to do contracts or to entertain themselves.
If they remove the barrel rate on Blaster, even with heavy range nerf, I will give it a second thought.
The Positron canon seems to have problem hitting target at very close range, although my aim was perfect, the projectiles appeared behind the target and dealt no damage. This could be a bug, need further test on it.
My personal view;
Yes, new weapons would be nice. And I believe there is every intention on expanding the system in the future. However, I strongly believe that we are all best off if the existing weapons are first balanced and tweaked until they are perfect.
At that point, we can more easily identify what kind of weapons are missing, where we should fit gaps in functionality, roles, ability, damage types, yadi yadi - and subsequently add additional weapons. Those can then follow the same patterns of DPS/Utlity as the already balanced weapons, thus making it easier to introduce weapons which are a little less OP than say, the beach balls were.
I’d also urge them to introduce just 1 weapon at a time once this happens as it would be far easier to balance and discuss than a whole bunch of weapons simultaneously. (Unless they would be in the same category or provide direct counter balance to one another)
I’m simply annoyed they are working TOO fast lol (there’s no making us happy is there)
hours of writing stuff down and videos made redundant when they keep changing values within literally hours of one patch to the next
They could atleast provide us with a test server able to spawn whatever we wanted and collect our own numbers independent of their ‘internal testers’
Because frankly after a few patches it’s evident that THAT tester team is incapable of catching alot of things forumers here are able to just by thinking about it over text postings.
Big titles either offer testing teams made up of players to gather second opinions OR provided test servers so people can check things out in controlled conditions (thinking about planetside 2’s VR Training here)