I’ll start off by saying I love healer squads. It adds depth to teamplay and gives purpose to some of the roles instead of merely making ships different from each other.
However, I will concede the point that a random side have little to no chance against a properly fitted premade healer squad.
- there are ways to counter them but the amount of coordination and effort required is rather unequal compared to what is needed for a bunch of guys to spawn as guards, engineers and command ships.
My proposal is to make countering healer squads easy. So much so that a random side can pull it off almost as easy as 4 corp mates deciding to bring the proper combination of ships along before hitting Launch.
We can do this by buffing up the Energy rocket
This small missile (rocket) is not Anti-Frigate grade in it’s current form.
- Atleast the T3 variant is not, while in T2 it enjoys a small measure of effectiveness.
- It’s Energy burn is too low
- Flight range too close for interceptors
- damage type (EM), explosion radius and AoE radius could do with a minor tweak but not crucial to make it work
This Guard Frigate has a cap pool of 880, regen rate ~170/s unmodded
Safe to say 1000+ cap @ 200/s easily doable
Engineer Frigs have numbers within the same ballpark.
Currently, unmodded cruising speed will allow them to escape the affected radius in under 10 seconds. Capacitor still full.
This is how much an Engineer module consumes per second.
Guard modules have higher consumption rate, but still a tad too low given the large cap pool @ ~70+ / sec
Anti Healer Squad Energy Rocket
Idea here is to make the counter random team friendly.
A single ordnance that can cancel healing momentarily, just enough time for 2 fighters to focus fire and kill off a single full health Frigate.
The Anti-Frigate Energy Mk.I rocket should have figures along these lines:
- Deactivates all active modules within Explosion radius
- minimum 200 Energy / s burn
- 4,500m flight range @ 1,500m/s flight speed ( 3 seconds flight time )
non crucial attribute tweaks:
- 3,000 Thermal damage, 200m explosion radius @ 800 Credits per missile (credits hike to avoid nerfing other missile variants)
- 1,500 meter Area of Effect radius @ 20 seconds
Energy burn is stackable, 2 rockets in the same AoE will produce 420 Energy / s burn rate
Intended Effects of New Energy Rocket
- It should cancel all buffs if the missile connects
- Missile shields can still destroy oncoming missiles
- Frigates caught perfectly in the center of energy cloud will have it’s cap pool drained to zero upon exiting
- Healing frigates cannot sustain more than one active module while in the cloud *
* Energy consumption on Engineer modules will need tweaking, figures raised closer to Guard modules
** Engineer modules should have an Activation cost on top of its’ consumption cost
*** Guard modules energy use could do with a bump up while we’re at it
- Considering that it’ll take Frigates mere seconds to refill it’s cap pool, the increased burn rate of this rocket isn’t all powerful.
On exit, it’ll only take a Guard frigate 3 seconds to reactivate one if it’s modules for example
Anti Healer Squad Ship-Role Combo Tweaks
As much as I like the Healer squad combo, it is perhaps the only one combo in Star Conflict
- like more than one person already mentioned elsewhere, it makes fleet composition one dimensional in this 3 dimensional game
Tweaking other roles can create new combos
Recon = Add Energy regeneration penalty to Spy Drones together with Hull and Shields
Tackler = Increase range to 3,000m on Target Painter - Line of Sight NOT required
Gunship = Ship class bonus - 50% overheating reduction on Heavy Weapons
just examples that would fit with a better Energy rocket
I’m no number cruncher - posted this hoping to get a discussion going.
I’d hate to see healing gets nerfed to a point where people stop thinking about ship-role combos
and goes back flying random ships and still do fine
- would this work well enough to reduce the impact of Healer squads?
- is there a fail somewhere that I missed ?
- are the numbers any good ?
p.s. where are the spoilers? this post is too long
Yeah I never understood this, why do my energy drain missiles hurt -ME- more than the engineer I splash it on? Those things drain an interceptors entire energy bar and force them to be unable to boost, so they get picked apart easily, but Fighter Ships + just ignore them? Post up a comparison shot of how much energy a Fighter or Interceptor generates, it makes no sense.
What the hell is the purpose of that? Yeah I’ll just handicap myself thank you.
Also the range of the epic painter is 3.3k, I think the blue might already be 3k, I dunno though. Good ideas all around, they just need to make a rank 9 tackler to make it fair. C’mon the frigging paralax already has a passive that makes it capable of using the hail gun, I’d still buy it in the end either way, but not having even a base rank 9 is stupid.
Energy drain missiles should be the counter to engies, not frigging interceptors.
I’m all for more tactical counters for heal stacking teams and promoting dogfighting, but I feel your adjustments may make this missile OP and as popular as nukes in T3 right now. A few comments on your proposal, not as long as your post, but still long:
- Energy burn: Interceptors are really hurt by it, but not frigates. If you increase energy burn, it will still be disproportionate. An energy burn powerful enough to stop engi frigs means it will stop ALL ships inside to use ANY modules or afterburners, even without your other suggestions.
- Range increases: I understand you want to reach frigates with the missile, but you can’t make it a guaranteed effect item. There should always be some risk involved in debuffing an enemy, and range is the most serious balance factor for modules, missiles, and guns. BTW, credits don’t (and shouldn’t) have a real impact on balance. Nobody really chooses to field a different missile because another is too many credits.
Anyway, think about how ion emitter works: it affects a single target (not aoe like this rocket), time effect is less than this rocket, and range is less as well. Yet ion emitter is quite powerful in it’s own right. Similarly with target painter, and your suggestion of 3000m and no LOS would make tacklers avoid danger completely. Increased range for the missile means it’s easy to shoot into enemies without risking any ship.
- Effect radius: Remember, increasing radius means increasing area by a power of 3. Guard frigates don’t even last 4 seconds with a decent squad focus. Ships should have a chance to get out if they want, especially since it can be deployed on a critical location where ships want to stay (and frigates probably have to change direction to get out as well, lest they run towards the enemy). Your 1500 radius may be an effective buff, but I’m concerned interceptors might drop like flies if you add heal stoppage on top.
- Stackability: Ability for same effects to stack, especially AOE effects, is a bad bad bad idea, period. Isn’t part of the concern about engi frigs their remote heals? Think about it.
- Misc: A. This missile is currently an unguided missile, with all the perks of unguided missiles. B. Turning off active modules is OK, but doesn’t stop some other ship from continuing heal, and the engi from restarting it’s modules. Keeping modules off would obviously be OP. C. 50% reduction in overheat ~ 100% increase in damage = insane. D. Randoms should not have a equally easy time focusing down ships as an experienced coordinated squad, otherwise where’s the competitive gameplay and teamplay?
Here’s my opinion: I think you need to realize the sustainability of flying ints and fighters is because of team buffs. Having a hard counter to engineer heals will make focusing on other ships easier, and it will be less viable to fly anything except engineers and guards. That’s the exact opposite of what we want. I don’t think you are looking for a counter to the continuous, slower heals; it’s either the engi’s themselves or their other modules.
The point of these recent AOE missiles seems to be to slow down those insanely fast interceptors on higher tiers following the speed cap raise, hence the range, low damage, and the AOE (though we have learned we can’t even fathom the devs’ thinking). I don’t think jerryrigging it into another role will work, focusing on balancing it’s current role is better.
Obviously healer squads are less of a concern on T1 or T2; at times I have to go healer when playing T2 with my squads cause a mix is preferred and engi is a little boring. In T3 is where I see player affinity for heal frigs, guard frigs, and strongs.
Hmm, perhaps an entirely new missile for T3/T4 targeting frigs might be an elegant solution? And maybe also that heal stacking nerf people have been clamoring for? I really can’t say at this point what will work, but I agree they need some tweaks.
thanks for the input, good points all around -
yea I realize that the burn rate is disproportionate and will fry both interceptors and fighters near instantly upon detonation but
- being an unguided missile, chances of intentionally trying to drain their cap is very low
(atleast not without pwning yourself in the process ie. melee range)
and at T3, I doubt inty pilots will still accidentally wander into an energy cloud
yet even if they do, time it takes to exit is minimal thanks to a higher flight speed
that and the very quick recharge back to full cap makes it somewhat ok
I’m pretty confident both fighters and interceptors will not be affected too much
increased missile range
It isn’t what it seems to be. Missile shields will take out these rockets.
Range increase is so the launching interceptor can still move forward as the pilot waits for the cloud
an increase in flight range will not guarantee detonation tbh
re: 3. Effect radius
this is harder to visualize how it will play out; atleast for me, so your points could be absolutely true
but the thing i’m seeing mainly is target priority
you have engineers, guards, command and attackers (inty + gunships etc)
as a squad you will need to name a target in under 2 seconds and focus fire on only one because in ~10 seconds they all will clear out the cloud
chances are it’ll be the engineer and the rest will survive to regroup and launch their own counter simultaneously as you’re killing their engy.
re: 4. Stackability
- thinking back, this is probably a stupid idea so
A more elegant solution would actually be a role specific module that deactivates enemy active modules. simple.
( while at the same time increasing / adding activation costs for heal mods. )
duration long enough to cause gaps in the buffs
but i like them blue cloud so i suggested the Energy rocket instead :00444:
Oh if only there was a Covert Ops or ECM module to prevent all healing on target for 10 seconds or something.
Disabling a lone engies heals is alright, but they’re usually covered by others anyways.
Guys, we could just make cruise missiles stronger, with less ability to hit non-frigs. As of now, there’s almost no reason to pack a cruise over minefields, due to missile shield/beacon deterrent; so, why not give a reason?