More and better bots!

Put simply, this game has real issues that are not being addressed, so rather than magically expect the player base to improve or kill it with ‘better’ matchmaking, let’s fix it with bots!

  1. Better Bots!

Bots should pick roles the team needs. Every Bot should have at least one Engineer with Mk III heals and should be coded to fly support (ie: not to rush but to stay close to the front and heal). If the team is low on Engineers or is taking heavy losses a Bot should switch to Engi to give support.

  1. More Bots!

This game is xxxx at lower game sizes. It should not be possible to launch with less than 8 players per side in PvP. If there aren’t enough players then Bots (an equal number per side) should make up the difference.

If the player numbers ever climb to the 0.6 levels again this won’t be needed so much, but for now this is a much better fix than forcing 20 minute queues to ensure 8v8.

This game is xxxx at lower game sizes.

 

I disagree

 

small battles and large sized battles are very different games. it does not make one better than the other however, just different.

 

some may prefer large games (like your self) but I prefer my matches small. 4v4 for example is perfect for me.

 

there are less unknowns, I can plan more and influence per ship is higher making every individual action significant. 4v4 has its’ drawbacks. A single non performing random team-mate can screw your team over really hard but at the same time large battles have its own unique problems. eg. your squad could do everything right but team can still lose because the other 3/4 of your team weren’t helping to win it. etc.

 


 

Bot AI could use a small upgrade however.

 

  1. NO RUSHING
  • all bots should be made to follow a human player

  • what rules to regulate that behaviour I don’t really care just stop them from feeding the enemy with kills.

 

  1. TEAM MODULES
  • all bots must equip and activate atleast 2 commonly expected team modules.

  • Engineers, Guards, Commands especially - Tackler and Recon too.

 

  1. LOCKON ALLY’s TARGET
  • Apply this to Gunships, ECM and CovOps especially

  • Make them shoot and use modules on the same targets human players have chosen

 

  1. NO LRF
  • Let human players decide tactically whether they want to play LRF or not

  • There are too many LRFs already, we don’t need bots to increase that number.

 

  1. BASIC PAIRS
  • Set rules on common sensible pairs

  • Engineer + Guard

  • Inty + Inty

  • Gunship + Command

  • Command + Guard

Add to your suggestion that they NEVER follow LRF pilots. I’ve had matches where our bot latched itself to the arse of a pug in an LRF and watched him shoot rocks all match.

I don’t agree with OP, I personally enjoy smaller games a lot (good change of pace, more tactical) but let’s talk LRF.

 

I would argue LRF is too underpowered. It can be powerful in a hands of a good player - sometimes, specially against bad players, but it is generally a ship that makes problems, mostly due to nature of the game objectives and maps that provide too much cover for snipers. The mechanic of itself is not appropriate, and just doesn’t really fit the game. If less pugs would pick LRF in small games that would be much more sensible, but once they start doing that once you need the ships at the front… 

The problem is that the meta in the game is brawling. Everything is done short-range. Objectives are done in close proximity, most weapons are close to mid range, all interceptor weapons are close range and whenever there is a team fight in CtB, TDM or CR players allready start to complain that the game is boring with everyone camping, also we don’t have proper weapons for long range engagement, so there is not much point in camping except making the game boring. It is one of those rare situations where LRF is viable, but even there you will still have your brawlers that will try to force enemy out of cover, but ussualy the side with more LRF will lose because they will lack support up front.

 

The LRF do not provide the number count needed up front for clearing objectives, every time you stay behind to snipe you are hurting your team by not being there, since your sniping is only vaguely, situationally viable. You have no other ways to support your team but sniping. You have no debuff modules and no buff modules, it all just depends on how good and lucky you are with your aim and positioning (hence why SO many bad LRF players around, there are no “I win” buttons in this class). 

Bottom line, LRF is still crap because of the way the mechanic of the game goes, and as long as being present upfront is more helpful than staying behind, there will be no point of using an LRF and it will keep hurting your team if you do it, until they change the class to adapt it to current game mechanics. It would make more sense to have a highly mobile sniper, than a slow frigate like now, it is just not working out and it forces you to stay put without being able to follow the team. LRF should be something that you fear, not just a slight annoyance as to what it is now.

 

Fix the LRF, fix the pug problems with making classes more viable and balanced (LRF is unbalanced because it is only good in good player > bad player, than everybody complains if they have LRF on their team and there are HUGE complaints if there is a good LRF on the enemy team wiping players flying in straight lines), and you make the game what it should be.

I dislike slow size games, but fulling them with bots would be stupid, people could farm kills and assist (efficiency) too easily there!

I dislike slow size games, but fulling them with bots would be stupid, people could farm kills and assist (efficiency) too easily there!

 

Bots kills are not added to your total destroyed ship count to my knowledge. 

 

They may count to THAT particular battle so it may have an affect your total efficency.  

Bots kills are not added to your total destroyed ship count to my knowledge. 

 

They may count to THAT particular battle so it may have an affect your total efficency.  

 

They give efficiency anyway, so you can have high efficiency battles and win the PvP efficiency leaderboard for example

I don’t agree with OP, I personally enjoy smaller games a lot (good change of pace, more tactical) but let’s talk LRF.

 

I would argue LRF is too underpowered. It can be powerful in a hands of a good player - sometimes, specially against bad players, but it is generally a ship that makes problems, mostly due to nature of the game objectives and maps that provide too much cover for snipers. The mechanic of itself is not appropriate, and just doesn’t really fit the game. If less pugs would pick LRF in small games that would be much more sensible, but once they start doing that once you need the ships at the front… 

The problem is that the meta in the game is brawling. Everything is done short-range. Objectives are done in close proximity, most weapons are close to mid range, all interceptor weapons are close range and whenever there is a team fight in CtB, TDM or CR players allready start to complain that the game is boring with everyone camping, also we don’t have proper weapons for long range engagement, so there is not much point in camping except making the game boring. It is one of those rare situations where LRF is viable, but even there you will still have your brawlers that will try to force enemy out of cover, but ussualy the side with more LRF will lose because they will lack support up front.

 

The LRF do not provide the number count needed up front for clearing objectives, every time you stay behind to snipe you are hurting your team by not being there, since your sniping is only vaguely, situationally viable. You have no other ways to support your team but sniping. You have no debuff modules and no buff modules, it all just depends on how good and lucky you are with your aim and positioning (hence why SO many bad LRF players around, there are no “I win” buttons in this class). 

Bottom line, LRF is still crap because of the way the mechanic of the game goes, and as long as being present upfront is more helpful than staying behind, there will be no point of using an LRF and it will keep hurting your team if you do it, until they change the class to adapt it to current game mechanics. It would make more sense to have a highly mobile sniper, than a slow frigate like now, it is just not working out and it forces you to stay put without being able to follow the team. LRF should be something that you fear, not just a slight annoyance as to what it is now.

 

Fix the LRF, fix the pug problems with making classes more viable and balanced (LRF is unbalanced because it is only good in good player > bad player, than everybody complains if they have LRF on their team and there are HUGE complaints if there is a good LRF on the enemy team wiping players flying in straight lines), and you make the game what it should be.

You underestimate the staying power and firepower of a well played LRF. In fact, where LRF excels are at mid range fights, because they have firepower and can use the team buffs like heals, and command auras.

 

Also, I love popping out of cover in a Ira Deus, hit the hardened shied, have 6 locks on me, and using pulse. So much fun :smiley:

 

I’m all in for LRF buffs. Like they are not good enough!!

Put simply, this game has real issues that are not being addressed, so rather than magically expect the player base to improve or kill it with ‘better’ matchmaking, let’s fix it with bots!

  1. Better Bots!

Bots should pick roles the team needs. Every Bot should have at least one Engineer with Mk III heals and should be coded to fly support (ie: not to rush but to stay close to the front and heal). If the team is low on Engineers or is taking heavy losses a Bot should switch to Engi to give support.

  1. More Bots!

This game is xxxx at lower game sizes. It should not be possible to launch with less than 8 players per side in PvP. If there aren’t enough players then Bots (an equal number per side) should make up the difference.

If the player numbers ever climb to the 0.6 levels again this won’t be needed so much, but for now this is a much better fix than forcing 20 minute queues to ensure 8v8.

I don’t know why bots are in any game (except 4vs4 and T1). Except for entertainment, kill stealing/feeding what are they good for, whats the point? I know exactly when a bot attacks me even without looking and sometimes I don’t bother doing anything about it and just go the real threat.

 

I strongly object adding more bots in game T3 and higher. T1/2 I don’t care I don’t play there.

Bots shouldnt count for Combat Recon or Team Battle points, it’s just stupid that those idiots feed the enemy team without worrying about a win (because they’re bots).

Then by that logic they shouldn’t count for kills in any mode.

When they put bots into the game as the norm we had 3 per side, and I honestly think that was a brilliant idea. All of a sudden we were getting 15v15 matches and it felt awesome! It was frantic, full of action and felt like a full-scale war had broken out.

Yet too many games I get now, especially when in a group, are dull as hell. 5v5 or 6v6 matches where the game is decided within the first 60 seconds. When I was flying the other night most of the small games went as follows:

  1. Some moron spawned in LRF and did nothing all game.
  2. Some moron spawned in Recon and tried to take on the entire enemy team alone.
  3. The Bot flew like a Bot.
  4. The rest of our team apparently decided it was rude to attack an enemy someone else was shooting at and so accomplished nothing.

This left two of us trying to take on 4+ people. That is really, really tiresome. When the teams are that small you can never gain any traction after a big defeat - once your team’s broken, it stays broken for the rest of the game. In larger matches it’s unlikely your entire team will be rolled, and if they are they’ll inflict losses along the way so you have a chance to regroup and try again. This is why we need a lot more bots in every match to push up the numbers.

As to the arguments that smaller games are better… that’s what Sector Conquest is for. Nobody wants to be in a 4v4 with 3 pugs.

4v4 with 3 pugs.

 

that makes you a pug too !

No matter what no more bots in T3 and higher. A few months ago we had 4 bots in each team in all tiers then they limited it to what it is now, which is good.

 

If you love bots, play T1 or PvE. 

If you love bots,

 

He wants bigger matches

Lenient MM is the way but

people moan way too much about gear and ship rank and shiit but rarely if ever admit they have crap skills-knowledge

 

so we end up having this babysitter MM

with Bots in them to let kiddies feel like they are badasss

They even add bots to 12v12 matches though. Bots are bad for PVP…

I would prefer to wait one more min every game and get rid of bots.

He wants bigger matches

Lenient MM is the way but

people moan way too much about gear and ship rank and shiit but rarely if ever admit they have crap skills-knowledge

 

so we end up having this babysitter MM

with Bots in them to let kiddies feel like they are badasss

We end up with a babysitter MM because the only fix is to put a minimum game size in place, which would result in squads never getting matches because the Devs haven’t got a clue how to queue squads. It would also result in low-pop times being dead for the same reason.

 

The solution of “add more bots” is realistic and recommended because we don’t have enough real players, and of the real players we do have half of them are less useful than bots.

just remove bots from the kill counter, give them mk3 gear, lower their 100% accuracy to 80% or something, code their ai to not follow LRF that stay still for more than 15 seconds and increase the numbers to 3 in smaller games (for example 6v6 or less would have and additional 3 bots per team) because small game sizes blow. either you carry the team or you get stomped by the enemy team because the bot on your team plays better than the rest of the lemmings you get paired with. then for the 10v10 games and up remove the bots completely etc etc

good first post

Agreed entirely!

My ideal model would be something like:

First, make 4v4 the minimum game size. Match cannot launch will less than 4 (human) players per side.

Then apply the following:

4v4, 5v5 or 6v6 = 4 bots per side.

7v7 = 3 bots.

8v8 = 2 bots.

9v9, 10v10 or 11v11 = 1 bot.

12v12 or higher have no bots.