Watch tournaments good vs good teams and then count how many times your guaranteed kill fails.
Use proton wall
Dont charge 1vs 4 with ECM
Simple
What don’t you understand in “I never said they were OP” and “I don’t care about the duration”.
Overpowered or underpowered isn’t the question.
I only said it is frustrating because there’s nothing you can do against it in game.
Nothing more.
You can do plenty, start from realising that you can expect and predict ocuranse of it, much easier than tcklers out of cloack no lock combo
So, what can you do between the moment he press the stun button and the end of the stun ? Nothing.
That’s what I’m saying, but you keep answering to something else.
Cloak can be uncloaked.
Uncloack can be dodge or destroyed.
Slow can be removed or evaded (lasers/missiles/guard’s slow).
Heal can be reduced.
Heal reduction can be removed or dodge.
Energy steal can be stopped (cleanse or brake line of sight)
Barriers (engi or destroyers) can be evaded, destroyed, or use explosion/singularity
Drones, stations, can be destroyed.
LRF have a beam/sound to give a warning.
Most of active modules can be stopped with stuns.
…
There are only a few effects that don’t have any mechanic to play against.
Stun is one of them. IR pulsar or WNJ is too.
And both should have a game mechanic to remove or reduce them by playing correctly.
That’s what I’m requesting.
I don’t care about over/underpowered, positioning, prediction, or whatever you want.
I’m saying that this kind of effect need a mechanic to play against.
56 minutes ago, Swifter43021 said:
I don’t care about over/underpowered, positioning, prediction, or whatever you want.
12 hours ago, Swifter43021 said:
Right now, ECMS are God mod. Click to stun, stun to kill. And there’s nothing you can do against it even if you are extremely skilled.
ECMs power is fine as it is
Stun, immobilise, silences, blind, aka Crowd Control, aka CC is an essential mechanic of almost all “Role Play” PvE and PvE games, it is needed, games that don’t have those tend to be very shallow on the game play, simply because a simple thing like disable creates a whole new layer of behavior, positioning, preparedness, reaction and prediction
There is nothing wrong with cc mechanics, and there is nothing wrong with ECM effective power in the game.
Highlight of the ECM diminishing returns
1st Target - Spark, no CC reduction equipped
2d Target Berserker - equipped with single mk4 Protono Wall (2-3 implant is not used)
Used Karud with 10-3 Implant
Video clearly highlights how all ECM disables count toward same diminishing counter, where second disable is considerably reduced, after 2d disable (within 30 seconds span) target becomes IMMUNE to ANY disables, and they all are wasted.
2d part vs Proton Walled Recon, shows how effective proton wall is, ECMs disables are considerably reduced, especially 2d effect.
CovOps and LRF “White noise” effects should contribute to the same diminishing returns, meaning suing them in consequence on same target result in considerate effectiveness reduction.
I know that already. At least try to read what I’m saying. Proton wall or r2 implant, or the diminishing duration is totally out of the topic.
Since the beginning I’m saying that there should be some active actions you can do against stuns (or WNJ).
So why do you insist on listing passive way of facing stuns?
It’s like you’re saying “we don’t need R8 implant against slowing effects because we can use slots to increase the ship speed, so when slowed our speed is higher”. Of course it’s a bit exaggerated, but similar.
Take League of Legend, which is similar to SC in many ways. There are a lot of “cc”. Stuns, root, silence,…
No problem with this.
BUT, in league of legend there are many way to face a CC when SC have only one.
In SC we have only proton wall to face stuns. Which is similar to tenacity in LOL : A passive duration reduction.
But in LOL, you can also :
-
Dodge the CC, because 90% of them are skillshots (like rockets in SC).
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Or remove it with some specific spells.
While the dodge option depend on the game, the cleanse option is available in nearly all games.
Even if proton wall is a viable option, it doesn’t change the fact that it shouldn’t be the only option.
Do you finally understand what I’m saying, or do I have to repeat myself one more time?..
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You started from the “OMG ECMS OP”
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There is so much slow in the game, and it is so influental on whole team level that the has to be a way to avoid it one way or another you make mass slows as ineffcient as disables, feel free to remove r8 with it.
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Amount of stuns and crowd control in LoL and influence it brings to the game calls for amount of active counter to that, back in the day when stuns were very very rare, there were no active counters, they grew out of control, they had to implement counters.
Star Conflict does not have lol mass team disables, every next ECM on enemy team is considerably less effective to the extend they all become useless since they over spam modules, making whole enemy team immune.
If SC goes nuts on disables, reverting all the diminishing we got right now to the “good old days”, and implement disables on half the roles, then we will need active counters.
6 hours ago, Swifter43021 said:
What don’t you understand in “I never said they were OP” and “I don’t care about the duration”.
Overpowered or underpowered isn’t the question.
I only said it is frustrating because there’s nothing you can do against it in game.
Nothing more.
Honestly, whats the difference between those 2? OP–> you are xxxx.cked. Frustrating–> you cant do sh.it and you get killed. I see no difference.
1 hour ago, Swifter43021 said:
Take League of Legend, which is similar to SC in many ways. There are a lot of “cc”. Stuns, root, silence,…
No problem with this.
BUT, in league of legend there are many way to face a CC when SC have only one.
AFAIK, once you are stunned in HON (similar to dota/lol) there are close to no counters to remove stun…in SC you have 2 counters for 4 stuns and a 3rd/4th option (5th if you consider metastable, 6th if you consider Mjolnir overdrive) to greatly reduce the stun duration, which is close to cancelling it. You should care about the duration: ion warheads last very little and probably arent considered as a “oh im dead missile/i cant do anything”…i see no mention of ion warheads in this topic. You are talking about stuns but ignoring key aspects? thats a very irresponsible attitude.
56 minutes ago, Papitas said:
Honestly, whats the difference between those 2? OP–> you are xxxx.cked. Frustrating–> you cant do sh.it and you get killed. I see no difference.
AFAIK, once you are stunned in HON (similar to dota/lol) there are close to no counters to remove stun…in SC you have 2 counters for 4 stuns and a 3rd/4th option (5th if you consider metastable, 6th if you consider Mjolnir overdrive) to greatly reduce the stun duration, which is close to cancelling it. You should care about the duration: ion warheads last very little and probably arent considered as a “oh im dead missile/i cant do anything”…i see no mention of ion warheads in this topic. You are talking about stuns but ignoring key aspects? thats a very irresponsible attitude.
ECM’s role in fight was discussed by the designers some times. I don’t think that we will make some of existing modules work during stunning, but some countermeasure against it may happen in the future. And Proton Wall is must when you ecounter some ECMs ”)
Stuns and silences in LoL are really short compared to Star Conflict, and generally don’t cause one to continue moving full speed ahead into a bad position, nor are they as simple and effortless to apply to target.
Proton Wall is useless for anything but interceptors. It should give some protection to currently running active modules in order to be good for rest of the ship classes.
28 minutes ago, CinnamonFake said:
… but some countermeasure against it may happen in the future…
I’m on topic already. I have a few concepts designed to counter ECMs. I will post it… soon… when it’s ready. 
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1 hour ago, Sinaka said:
I’m on topic already. I have a few concepts designed to counter ECMs. I will post it… soon… when it’s ready. 
Proton wall is one of the “must have” modules on pretty much every build which is not fitted having in mind only pure damage -> stealth -> non survivalist. And not all the ships are suitable for such build. So for the avarage joes it’s crucial to have one.
Apart that: I hate ecm. They are not op (apart some builds tipically nab farmin fitted), just annoying. So they must stay as they are now. Apart passive modules or implants there should NOT be any anti-stun modules or such.
People can’t start to build ships having in mind that they can spam without drawbacks (or way to stop it) any type of modules.
uhm… I don’t really even get what is the problem here… you say use proton wall, but why’d you waste a module slot when you can just attack the ecm first and kill it before it kills you? the majority of players can’t really dodge a bullet anyway…
on the other hand, when you said if a squad of ecm attacks you are dead. Well thats true, I’m sorry you had to find out this way. But if a squadron of gunships attack you are considered dead too, no? how about a squad of command ships… They use their op phaser with a valkyrie combo and you are dead even faster. You need to understand that you would die the same way / even quicker if you faced different classes.
imo ecms are ok as they are.
Hum. You don’t get it. Yeah it’s true that in the end against a squad who focus you, there is a hight chance you end dead.
But, with a squad of commands, gunships, whatever without an ECM inside, you have a *thin* probability of surviving by dodging or using a survival module.
An ECM remove that probability, because you can’t dodge a stun, and once stunned, you can’t dodge anything. If they can kill you within 4 seconds, then there is 0% chance of surviving.
I just suggested to have a probability of surviving *a bit* higher then 0%. Because then, you didn’t die because of a point and click stun, but because you failed to dodge.
That’s a HUGE difference.
3 hours ago, xKostyan said:
Well, let me elaborate my standpoint then…
Interceptors need to be able to move all the time to dodge enemy fire, frigates generally don’t need to nor could they even if wanted to.
Interceptors have what little sensor range they need by default. Frigates need a lot of sensor range, yet have poor sensor ranges by default.
Interceptors generally have nice critical hit bonuses by default. Frigates need to get it some other way.
Interceptors don’t benefit from Horizon Module. For frigates weapon range is essential.
Interceptors don’t have Emergency Shield Booster running for 20 seconds. Frigates do. And then things like Multiphase Shield Adapter.
As such, interceptors players are free to use a CPU slot for Proton Wall, and likely will want to even if it is their only one. Frigate players cannot afford to, for the benefits are lesser, and outweighted by other things.