Just some feedback regarding MM in T3 and T5

9 hours ago, JCNB said:

blah blah

And you make no arguments what so ever, but hey some one has to be the forum whiner, since WPKs are gone, it is your time to shine buddy. 

9 hours ago, Spongejohn said:

Never said that those things doesn’t matters. But those are just less important than other parameters. The more you overengineering on those, the more mm will not work. 

To me tbh the perfect solution wuold be letting team know when and where there are other teams in que (not the REAL numbers just a check. There are squads in a given range of rank? yes or no). Organized team play is mostly the better way to counter “randomness”, but that’s my 2cents and I’m not a game designer.

One thing I know for sure, the parameters that mm is using now are irrilevant and lead to broken games. 

I only wish I could have more than 1mb upload to show one of my game sessions. You wuold change your mind instantly.

If you are trying to measure a skill, every single factor is important, because all of them pile up on top of each other, and even the slightest wrong decision can mean a player totally dominates the game or being totally useless dragging his team down, but at the end players skill is un-measurable, it can be attempted to be estimated, predicted and extrapolated from bigger sample pool, yet it will never ensure the performance and influence in a singular game, simply due to the fact that this game so much variety of factors and situations and a human being can not possibly equally good at all of them, and the “better” overall the player is, the more variables are added in his relative performance. It is much easier to predict an influence of a newbie - he’ll be pretty bad no mat he flies, but “tops” are completely different story - get a Takamina in a Fed healer in a beacon hunt on Easter Mining station (especially spawning on a team that comes from the open), and see his team get wrecked.

Match Maker can not be ideal or perfect for everybody, it can only cater to a group of player base, as of now it caters to a player base that constantly demanded bigger and faster games, we already had time frame when MM tried to cater to skill separation, did you forget overwhelming amount of xxxx on forums regarding that? Yet even then games were won by one sided scores. 

What you basically want a separation of all the people with “<1.1” Win ratio form all the “>1.2” with small floating buffer in between, I get it, and it make perfect sense and i would love the same, but this means much longer wait times, much smaller game sizes on average, and still most of the games will be won/lost with one sided scores, and still there are plenty of those players in higher bracket that only want to take something like Gauss Gunship or Plasma-gun strafing CovOp and simply collect frags, those will be the 1st to come instead of you on forums and start arguing how everything is xxxx again and how it is worse than before.

 

I find current MM not great or awesome, it is fine as a model ground catering to the majority of game-population, keeping that same population count up. As long as MM priorities and target audience stays the same, you can only fine tune it that much, which will not solve the problem one sided results, and one guy carrying his team and still lose. 

Just recently there were some changes to Beacon hunt game mode -> timers were a bit tuned, just a bit, but did you notice how Beacon Hunt mode on average results in more close objective scores at the end, than before? There always will be one sided game, they can not be eliminated, period, but appearance of close games can be drastically improved via game modes them-self, it is possible to accommodate and compensate to a certain degree of a MM results, because no matter what one team will be better than another that is why one team wins and another loses (with extremely rare draws)

Actually you dont need to measure skill, you only need to measure Win/loss as a dynamic state. That means for example, u take a players Win/loss rate of last 100 games as a measure to determine the MM position. The more often the player wins, the higher his score gets and the more the MM regards him as a factor in leading to a win. 

This is a highly dynamic score insted of rather static ones that are currently used. Also instead of using a variable to predict the outcome, u take the outcome itself to predict outcome in future, which is most direct measurement.

 

For example, each player starts with score of zero. Win leads to a +1, loss to -1. MM tries to equal points of both sides. So if one player is good wins often he might have score of 10+, medium skilled player around 0, bad player -10. Then MM tries to put teams together in a way so that both team are as equal in score as possible.

It would prevent long win or long loss streaks which are both kinda boring.

Why is this not done when it is so easy? I dunno.

 

 

 

7 minutes ago, theNoob said:

Actually you dont need to measure skill, you only need to measure Win/loss as a dynamic state. That means for example, u take a players Win/loss rate of last 100 games as a measure to determine the MM position. The more often the player wins, the higher his score gets and the more the MM regards him as a factor in leading to a win. 

This is a highly dynamic score insted of rather static ones that are currently used. Also instead of using a variable to predict the outcome, u take the outcome itself to predict outcome in future, which is most direct measurement.

 

It would prevent long win or long loss streaks which are both kinda boring.

Why is this not done when it is so easy? I dunno.

 

 

 

 

On 09/08/2016 at 10:04 AM, xKostyan said:

futuramafry.jpg

 

Its mathmatics Kostyan, funny pictures wont help u here.

![:015_2:](<fileStore.core_Emoticons>/emoticons/015_2.png “:015_2:”)

Your solution will create even more complaining, average player does not look a things from long term perspective or session wide angle. He will be complaining about singular experiences, your solution will ruin singular experiences even further, it can be one of the factors in a final result, but it can not be the sole solution.

Why? I am honestly interested. Why would my solution ruin singular experience? What is a singular expierience in this context anyway?

Your system absolutely ignores precautions to make individual games fun, it only ensures stastical outcome.

Majority of players are here for a gameplay 1st and statistics 2d.

Atleast current system attempts to do so, but obviosly failing for some.

1 hour ago, xKostyan said:

And you make no arguments what so ever, but hey some one has to be the forum whiner, since WPKs are gone, it is your time to shine buddy. and Blah.

A transparent goad, apparently im backing u up so why bother?

Everthing else you have said has been said before and longer term players are well aware of the MM imbalance arguement being both ongoing and essentially unresolvable. I have a folder full of images of the kind of silly stunts that could be pulled in days past (T3 in T4 and obliterating the enemy team ect).

Fact of the matter is i have never ‘whined’ before about this however lately something has gone very wrong with larger games in EU/RU timezone that not only i see happening. If the fish smells off and your friends tell you it smells off then its probably off.

Its not an issue of losing games or even winning them, but how derpily either is done. The very core area of the game around the old T3 area justs completely lacks now and its spreading. If you dont see it thats fine but a wall of generlised text on MM will never stop people from being sick of eating bad fish.

At the very least we can always adapt to this, games are much shorter when you know the team you have joined has no chance 3:56 from standing still shooting anyone who came near, just stop is still the lesson of the day, why try? Winning or losing does not bother me at all im interested in a good game, this was/is not.

Spoiler

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Six players spawning into that handed a win or a loss, which is the arbitrary part. GG it was not. Still managed to make the top 50% of score using only mouse.

Once again a new thing, not ongoing. This was the 2nd pvp of the day.

50 minutes ago, theNoob said:

Actually you dont need to measure skill, you only need to measure Win/loss as a dynamic state. That means for example, u take a players Win/loss rate of last 100 games as a measure to determine the MM position. The more often the player wins, the higher his score gets and the more the MM regards him as a factor in leading to a win.

 

I see where your going with this but it doesnt stop experience players tanking their rating or leading to what i see already which is particulary weak teams being made so that there is a space for a good player to join and fail. Very artificial and easily manipulated.

I only asked for a change back to two weeks previously, i would have really struggled to find fault with many of the won and lost games then.

Last submission on this topic unless anything else fun comes up, a win to brighten things up, hopefully it amuses you guys as it did me.

I remembered I had bought some peaches just after hitting launch and thought what a delicious snack that would be. Then, mouse pointer approaching the cancel button I was thrust into battle. I was upset at having to wait for my sugary repast, then I saw the game.

Spoiler

I selected my ship, retrieved my crimson/orange treat from the fruit bowl and began to probe its exterior trying to judge its ripeness.

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Biting into the dense yellow flesh made me wonder “when was the last time I had a peach that tasted this good!?”. It seemed the peach that all other peaches aspired to be. I wanted to savour it, to enjoy it forever in a tasty debauchery. The entire world hating me as cities were submerged in a never-ending sun coloured, chin dribble produced sea of fruity ecstasy.

One guy on the enemy team approached my unmoving ship jealous of my glorious treat. I shot him once, his ship exploded, my luscious nourishment was secure from envious paws and I could turn my full attention toward it again.

screenshot-160811-100311.jpg.2e985a5629197dcbfcb85a7b938171e9.jpg

The match ended just as I had finished truly the greatest peach ever. The game being won in 3 minutes I realised I couldn’t have held back that much from its delicious innards and a general malaise overcame me because it was finished so quickly. “There will be other peaches” I told myself “there are some right there” but this was little comfort to me for I knew there would never be its like again.

Eat more fruit. ![:005j:](<fileStore.core_Emoticons>/emoticons/005j.png “:005j:”)

I have an idea. I feel JC in his argument - last time I am constantly getting dragged into lost games, usually against R13 players in my R10 lineup. 

So can we have the previous MM? The one just before this one? Have it for 2 weeks, see if number of complaints has risen or fallen. 

On 8/10/2016 at 2:21 PM, JCNB said:

A transparent goad, apparently im backing u up so why bother?

Everthing else you have said has been said before and longer term players are well aware of the MM imbalance arguement being both ongoing and essentially unresolvable. I have a folder full of images of the kind of silly stunts that could be pulled in days past (T3 in T4 and obliterating the enemy team ect).

Fact of the matter is i have never ‘whined’ before about this however lately something has gone very wrong with larger games in EU/RU timezone that not only i see happening. If the fish smells off and your friends tell you it smells off then its probably off.

Its not an issue of losing games or even winning them, but how derpily either is done. The very core area of the game around the old T3 area justs completely lacks now and its spreading. If you dont see it thats fine but a wall of generlised text on MM will never stop people from being sick of eating bad fish.

At the very least we can always adapt to this, games are much shorter when you know the team you have joined has no chance 3:56 from standing still shooting anyone who came near, just stop is still the lesson of the day, why try? Winning or losing does not bother me at all im interested in a good game, this was/is not.

  Reveal hidden contents

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Six players spawning into that handed a win or a loss, which is the arbitrary part. GG it was not. Still managed to make the top 50% of score using only mouse.

Once again a new thing, not ongoing. This was the 2nd pvp of the day.

I don’t think you even try to comprehend what I am saying, you all are so fixated on MM, on how it is will magically fix all of your problems. 

You are complaining on how some individual matches go, no matter how much you tune MM, such games can not be eliminated, because MM alone is not the root cause of them.

MM has performance priorities, and according to current priorities, it is doing fine. People that are higher on the “skill” curve always have been having problems coping with MM, because unless games are drastically reduced in size, there is no way for such players to not have games filled with “the rest of a playerbase geniusness”. There are all sorts of players, for some it works, for some it does not, but there always will be group of people for whom it does not work. 

Again you are complaining about your gaming experience (and i am totally ignoring Invasion, PvE and the rest of the game here, except for PvP queue), but what is a fun experience? Most of you if not all complain about one sided results, as you have shown in your screenshots, which are not news to anybody anyways, and keep blaming the MM for that, yet the final game result is influenced by so many different factors, yet all of them except for MM are completely ignored every single time such topic pops up. It is not like this thread is 1st or 2d or even 3rd in its theme.

All the combinations of passives/weapons/implants/ships/modules/boosters/personal game understandings/personal game style preferences/and so on, create a game-variety, then all of that is fed to the MM, which tries to select some of that, and using some factors even it all out and push it into a single game, where all of that is processed and heavily influenced by what that singular game is really is - map/game mode rules/connectivity/human factors.

You can tune MM to the end of time, end result of less one sided games will be minimal playerbase wide, because MM is not the only thing involved and influencing an appearance of such results. Why put so much effort into one thing that will not produce big results, MM at the stage of a “tuning” not complete rework under current MM priorities, why not put same effort into all other factors and actually get visible results?

 

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These 3 games are definition of “balanced”, it will never be better than that, simply because every single one of them is a bot of same difficulty, yet out of 10 games 7 of them finished one sided. This is because the same thing i said multiple times where a team with slightly better performance will win with dominating objective score, that is a current reality of Star Conflict mechanics.

All the factors aimed at delivering you the in game experience should be considered when “one sided games” are the topic, these factors should compliment each other and try to compensate for the downsides of the other factors. 

Beacon Hunt as an example - just recent change of timers on a beacons, statistically reduced the amount of games on such game mode to be “one sided”, count of all those “close games” grew significantly, and that happened simply to a mere 15 seconds timer change, but the change was aimed well.

Such changes in nature can occur to all the game modes and other factors, all of them are overdue to the review for years, yet all we have is “FCUKING MM!, FIX IT”

I’m just complaining about Domination as mode being unbalanced. The rest are fine(MM and mode-wise).

Love joining lost battles, where I am not allowed to spawn cuz game is over or i spawn and the game is nearly lost anyways.

 

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5 hours ago, MightyHoot said:

Look at all those wins:

http://82.196.1.93/forum/activity/SpongeJohn/?from=2016-07-01&to=

http://82.196.1.93/forum/activity/JCNB/?from=2016-07-01&to=

I have no idea why u guyzzzzz complain ![:D](<fileStore.core_Emoticons>/emoticons/006j.png “:D”)

Tillo i have screens of you screaming like a 12 years old child about how unfair mm is.
Btw win or loose doesn’t mean that the game are good.

9 minutes ago, Spongejohn said:

Tillo i have screens of you screaming like a 12 years old child about how unfair mm is.

What do you mean “like”? I though all 12 years old scream like 12 years old, that is what they do, no?

Peach game was fun to write about, anyone ideas on a snack type? I’m thinking wasabi peanuts for the next one. “The thermal weapon burns didnt register due to the raging inferno in my head”.  ![:005j:](<fileStore.core_Emoticons>/emoticons/005j.png “:005j:”)

1 hour ago, Spongejohn said:

Tillo i have screens of you screaming like a 12 years old child about how unfair mm is.
Btw win or loose doesn’t mean that the game are good.

Yep want the GG. Not getting the GG. Lot of stink games. Dont really care whats causing it only that its happening.

Its one thing to lose, its another to lose without any game play. Same for wining. Whats point if I only play for 30 seconds only to wait 3 to 10 minutes.

another great match where i spawn into a lost battle. Thanks Match maker.

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I like the games where i jump in and win just seconds after, they are fun!

11 hours ago, theNoob said:

I like the games where i jump in and win just seconds after, they are fun!

I hate those too, just a little less.