Jericho LRF Balance

JERICHO
Damage per shot = 7,413 + 836 (Direct contact)
Range = 8,000m @ 650m/s Torpedo speed
ROF = 5 shots / min
Damage per minute =  41,245
 
EMPIRE
Damage per shot = 10,484
Range = 9,500m
ROF = 17 shots / min
Damage per minute =  178,228
 
Assume 1 vs 1 situation Jericho vs Empire LRF starting from spawn location 15,000 meters apart in open space.
Emp LRF moves forward 2,500 meters
Jer LRF moves forward 2,500 meters
10,000 meters apart
 
Emp LRF goes into Disintegrator mode. Jer LRF continues forward to get into range. Speed 220m/s. Jer LRF will need to travel for 9 seconds to reach 8,000m range. Torpedo will take another 12 seconds after that to reach Emp LRF.
 
In 9 + 12 seconds, Emp LRF can fire off 6 shots
 
At first encounter;
 
Empire LRF deals 10,484 x 6 = 62,904 Thermal damage
Jericho LRF deals = 8,249 Thermal damage
 
By the time second Torpedo makes contact, Empire LRF will have dealt another 31,425 damage
 
2 x Guided torp by Jericho LRF = 16,498 Thermal damage
Empire LRF will have made = 94,329 Thermal damage
 

 
Consider another scenario. Invisible LRF vs Engineer Bot + Gunship Bot
 
Bots are not moving, player has perfect aim.
Engineer bot can tank 26,000 Thermal damage
Gunship bot tanks 10,000 Thermal damage
 
Jericho kills both in 6 shots taking 72 seconds
Empire kills both in under 15 seconds.
 

 
LRF vs Interceptor bot
Inty is 5,000m away and outside weapons range flying full afterburners at 500m/s in a straight line. Player has perfect aim.
 
 
By the time Jericho LRF’s torpedo travels 5,000 meters, target is already 8,800 meters away from LRF and interceptor escapes unharmed.
Empire LRF takes one shot and kills interceptor
 
 

 
 [Star Conflict OBT v.0.10.1](< base_url >/index.php?/topic/22912-star-conflict-obt-v0101/)
 

The number of long-range ships has significantly grown over the past weeks. Besides, long-range ships are rather hard to reach at beginner ranks.
With this in mind, we have weakened long-range ships:
 
Disintegrator
For Т1 range has been reduced from 12000 to 8500 metres
For Т2 range has been reduced from 12000 to 9500 metres
Projectile speed for all levels reduced by 5%
Guided Torpedo
For Т2 range has been reduced from 10000 to 8000 метров
For all levels explosion damage reduced by 9%, radiation damage reduced by 9%

The number of long-range ships has significantly grown over the past weeks.

The number of Empire long-range ships has significantly grown over the past weeks.

 

 

Empire LRF vs Jericho LRF. Jericho LRF is behind a rock. By the time Jericho LRF has dealt 20,000 damage, Empire LRF has dealt zero.

 

Sure that’s artificial, but just as artificial as your examples. Good LRF pilots rely on their main guns anyway.

 

PS: Doesn’t mean I didn’t raise an eyebrow at the Jericho range nerf. Max range torpedoes were never exactly an issue, their only usefulness was at clearing beacon drones.

If I wasn’t so bad at math i might try to do calculation on ability of the torpedo to go around cover object. find out how much range it loses to make that approach in order to strike a target behind say a medium sized asteroid.

 

but even without calcs and based off on observation + experience, I can confidently say it doesn’t take much to make it impossible for the torpedo to hit you.

 

The only mileage Emp LRF proponents have is “Jeri can hit ships behind a rock, Emp cannot.” Frankly it’s beginning to sound like a broken record.

 

Jer LRF isn’t dealing enough damage to even kill an interceptor unless it was already halfway down on hulls. And you dont get to score a bunch of assists either to make up for it because … ROF.

 

Point i tried to make is that Devs might have applied a blanket nerf to ‘Long-range Ships’ and forgot to consider the differences between the 2 types. They are better able to make accurate balancing. Just pointing out that the two faction’s LRFs are not on equal footing. Not even relatively.

Why are you comparing apples with oranges

Empire LRF vs Jericho LRF. Jericho LRF is behind a rock. By the time Jericho LRF has dealt 20,000 damage, Empire LRF has dealt zero.

 

An Imperial LRF pilot who can’t overcome a simple rock does not deserve to fly an LRF. Besides, sniper wars aren’t a good indication of balance in this case. Both LRFs have their distinct functions.

 

As for the torp… Jeri LRFs are either worthless (no damage, missiles get shot down), or OPed and irritating (when missiles were immune to missile shield). Right now their torps are nice if you want to harass the enemy, but that’s about it. I’m also concerned about the hull/shield disparity, but let’s leave that to the appropriate thread.

From RU wiki   Nuclear cloud 

  • Radius: 300m
  • DMG: (dmg points/sec)

  ----------------------- Target -----T1----T2------T3----T4------T5

 

Ground Zero-----Interceptor- 484—552—619—687----755

--------------------------Fighter----734—836—938—1041–1143

--------------------------Frigate----917–1045–1173–1301–1429

 

Outskirt-----------Interceptor–145—166—186----206----226

--------------------------Fighter-----220–251—282----312----343

--------------------------Frigate-----275–314—352----390----429

  • Duration: 10 sec

 

So you in that irrelevant example of Sniper vs Sniper you have to accommodate for not direct LoS and DOT of Torpedo, forcing Empire LRF to relocate, and dont forget that every time Empire LRF relocates it has to wait 3 seconds to shoot Disintegrator again.

 

I personally see those 2 ships very differently, and hardly comparable directly, even though Developers kidna make them as same template.

I see LRFs as mid range fire support, amount for dmg coming from their main guns is through the roof, especially if you compensate for Hit percentage of your main guns vs “F”. At mid ranges with focus on main guns, Empire LRF cant easily and quick “scope” shoot - it has to wait 3 seconds for charge, the way i play it is that i have 3x multi purpose modules (survivability) + Tachyon charge, so when my positrons overheat, i do 1 boosted Disintegrator shot, preferably into fighter/frigate - aiming into interceptor takes to long (aint nobody got time for dat), On other hand Jericho LRF has no “charging time” for “F” so if you play it similar way - main gun with torp secondary support - you can instantly launch Tachyon charged torpedo to finish someone off, or to force someone to get out of the cover with cloud. I see Torpedo as waste of potential dps of main gun if used without Tachyon Charge, unless used for utility.

Original post might have wrongly caused some people to think in terms of Empire vs Jericho

 

It isn’t

 

Jericho LRF has no function in Star Conflict.

Empire LRF does what it is supposed to do

 

Jerry LRF cannot effectively deny an area nor can it pressure frigates by controling their movement. Killing anything is definitely out of the menu.

 

Empire one can:

  1. Kill ships

  2. Deny ships from moving out of cover

  3. Pressure and limit the space ships have to work with in a contested area

 

Jericho cannot do any of those. Hence … Jericho LRF has no function in Star Conflict.

 

If you think they do, lets hear it. What can it do that no other ship cannot do better ?

 

6 turrets ? lets talk about effective staying power. An interceptor can inflict more damage over time than the Jericho LRF because it can stay alive doing it. Jericho LRF can dish out a few seconds of 6 turret pain then die. Jericho LRF is not combat effective.

From game style i imply into LRF ships, the only problem Jericho vs Empire i have is that Jericho much less tankier, while it easily can Pump out more dmg and better suited for this game play.

Not my videos/screenshots

post-1078624-0-75026400-1396795008.jpg post-1078624-0-80512900-1396795019.jpg post-1078624-0-78239600-1396795030.jpg

d1f93bc864411b9810896bfac767e194-full.jp

e57eb6c50f4067f2c60566c917901f6f-full.jp

 

I think Jericho LRF fully developes in T4-T5, kinda same way ECM/Command kinda sux in T2, and becomes awesome in T3+

the T3 Jeri LRF is a huge downgrade than what it was before. Given it was a little too effective when it could fly past AMS but this new one has no teeth.

 

That inquistor tho

Dat range … hmmmmm

And you dont get to score a bunch of assists either to make up for it because … ROF.

 

You need to catch up on patch notes, the timeout on assists was removed a while ago. :wink:

Jerry LRF is awesome for example in detonation, they cant hide behind the beacon from your wrath. The only problem with them is the low survival, they cant tank for xxxx. Damage comes from the 6 barrel positrons, torp is just for the niche cases when it’s appropriate to AoE or make it turn or whatever.

The only problem with them is the low survival, they cant tank for xxxx.

I never had survivability problems in them, quite to the contrary. They have so much burst AOE damage that anything coming for them close range typically just explodes before it can kill them, and if attacked from range just duck behind cover and send a torp out for suppression.

I wonder what are the plans for the Jerico LRF in the open world.  

If I wasn’t so bad at math i might try to do calculation on ability of the torpedo to go around cover object. find out how much range it loses to make that approach in order to strike a target behind say a medium sized asteroid.

 

but even without calcs and based off on observation + experience, I can confidently say it doesn’t take much to make it impossible for the torpedo to hit you.

 

The only mileage Emp LRF proponents have is “Jeri can hit ships behind a rock, Emp cannot.” Frankly it’s beginning to sound like a broken record.

 

Jer LRF isn’t dealing enough damage to even kill an interceptor unless it was already halfway down on hulls. And you dont get to score a bunch of assists either to make up for it because … ROF.

 

Point i tried to make is that Devs might have applied a blanket nerf to ‘Long-range Ships’ and forgot to consider the differences between the 2 types. They are better able to make accurate balancing. Just pointing out that the two faction’s LRFs are not on equal footing. Not even relatively.

 

 

Original post might have wrongly caused some people to think in terms of Empire vs Jericho

 

It isn’t

 

Jericho LRF has no function in Star Conflict.

Empire LRF does what it is supposed to do

 

Jerry LRF cannot effectively deny an area nor can it pressure frigates by controling their movement. Killing anything is definitely out of the menu.

 

Empire one can:

  1. Kill ships

  2. Deny ships from moving out of cover

  3. Pressure and limit the space ships have to work with in a contested area

 

Jericho cannot do any of those. Hence …  Jericho LRF has no function in Star Conflict.

 

If you think they do, lets hear it. What can it do that no other ship cannot do better ?

 

6 turrets ? lets talk about effective staying power. An interceptor can inflict more damage over time than the Jericho LRF because it can stay alive doing it. Jericho LRF can dish out a few seconds of 6 turret pain then die. Jericho LRF is not combat effective.

 

HOW DARE YOU?!

 

This is more or less how you should use Jeri LRF and if you watch it you will see that snipe module is used mostly when main weapon overheat

http://youtu.be/bAqYer17YOQ?t=1m29s

Jerry LRF is awesome for example in detonation, they cant hide behind the beacon from your wrath. The only problem with them is the low survival, they cant tank for xxxx. Damage comes from the 6 barrel positrons, torp is just for the niche cases when it’s appropriate to AoE or make it turn or whatever.

i dunno, 6 barrle mortars is kinda funny

@ tillo - you got a video link of a match where you are trolling randoms instead ? wanna watch for personal comparison.

 

about that match in your video: I watched up to 6:25s and got to see what I wanted to see.

 

  1. no criticism toward your piloting or your decisions on the field. in-fact I see no flaw on your part (but ofcourse) and in all situations I would have done the same thing except maybe on how I would use / time my torpedoes. looks like you use them as deterrent quite often whereas I prefer to inflict convincing clean contact hits to give people second thoughts on moving. A big boom followed by beep * warning, shields down is more convincing than red balls of fire strategically placed in front of them.

 

  1. point still stands - another ship type is able to provide support as you did in that LRF and my argument is, they likely can do it better. Apart from that one instance where your 6 turret posi melted an Engineer in record time there were no other encounters that showed a Jeri LRF could do something no one else can do better.

 

You played tactical support, stripping away shields using both main and F weapon. A plasma gun interceptor could do the same with the added advantage of mobility and a better array of team actives. A mobile ship would also have the option of capping beacons safely if one is left open and the pilot is able to change his mind should the ship be at risk of getting destroyed mid capture. An LRF that is committed to taking what previously looked like a safe beacon cannot withdrawn and survive consistently when the immediate area turn hostile.

 

Jerry LRF suppressing a bunch of frigates from moving out of cover is also unconvincing. Emp LRF will kill a frigate if it tried a mad dash. Jer LRF will only hurt him enough to make him think twice of doing it again. Assuming they are missing active AMS. If not, they’d laugh their way on to the next cover object. Emp LRF not being able to shoot around cover is not a disadvantage. That is the objective. He is there to ensure frigates don’t get to move and cower their time away in a time sensitive game. A single Emp LRF can keep several guards and engineers in check. It is not even a trade-off plus the Emp LRF isn’t limited to watching a piece of rock like a hawk. Given his long range, an  Empire Long range frigate can still contribute elsewhere on the map while keeping a specific rock locked down. So no, inability to shoot around cover is not a disadvantage. It is an indicator that you are doing your job.

 


 

I dont get the other comments made in this thread so far: 

 

like why am i comparing one LRF with another LRF both of whom share the same role ? As if it is not worth mentioning that one is decidedly better at that job while the other noticeably inferior ?

that the weaker LRF needs to be able to stack passives before it can be effective doing a different kind of job later on. (positively significant for me and my playstyle at a personal level but still)

where everyone has a functional F module and the weaker LRF is weak in the first place because its’ F module is ‘situational’ ?

that the jericho LRF is fine at doing its’ job because it can defend itself in a one on one ambush ?

 

I know people hate the Jericho LRF in a previous life. Too lethal in the right hands, annoying as fk in all others. But that doesn’t mean nerfing it to a second rate lets-hope-people-dont-use-them-anymore ship is a good way of going about it.

 

Why are you comparing apples with oranges

 

But that got me thinking. The problem right now as I see it is, both LRF are not apples and oranges. One is a big tasty apple and the other is just fruit.

 

What if we really made it as different as apples and oranges ?

What if Emp LRF keeps its’ devastating role as Suppressor and the Jericho one is given another new function ?

 

We already do this not because it suits the different ships better but because Jer LRF F module is so bad comparatively people resign to simply using the 6 turrets and call that a niche. Conveniently forgetting the fact that Empire LRF also has 6 turrets on top of a kickass F mod and tank lol.

 

But what if the Jericho’s F module was changed into something radically different. One that will give it a new job on the field.

Would Mauler owners be pissed off ? Or those who invested time, vouchers and artifacts in kitting out their Jericho LRF, would they scream REFUND! ?

What is developers plan for ship role is a one thing, and how we use it is completely different, your comparison is some what similar to never ending Empire Engineer vs Federation Engineer, those are 2 quite different things , same here.

 I didn’t watch tillowatys this particular video, but i know how Positron LRFs work at mid range, and how Jericho’s torp >desintegrator at that role, i would trade for Jericho in a heart beat if it wouldn’t be for Empire tanking multiples of what Jericho can.

 Biggest difference is Jericho torp boat is not Long range frigate, it is a mid range fire support(unless you build for 10k positrons, but than it kinda defeats the purpose and doesn’t carry a punch that mid range has), and amount of dmg LRF can pump out with Positrons is just ridiculous,  and no there is no other ship capable of doing so, not CovOp not a gunship, especially at ~5 000 ranges. 

 Empire LRF can be a sniper with main-guns as self defence and sit god knows where, while Jericho simply can not, the only way to play efficient Torp boat is mid range fire support, spitting torps with tycheon charge only, Empire LRF can take on the same role, but it can not shot “F” at will, as i said earlier it has 3 second delay of downtime, by that time your target will break a LoS.

What is developers plan for ship role is a one thing, and how we use it is completely different, your comparison is some what similar to never ending Empire Engineer vs Federation Engineer, those are 2 quite different things , same here.

 I didn’t watch tillowatys this particular video, but i know how Positron LRFs work at mid range, and how Jericho’s torp >desintegrator at that role, i would trade for Jericho in a heart beat if it wouldn’t be for Empire tanking multiples of what Jericho can.

 Biggest difference is Jericho torp boat is not Long range frigate, it is a mid range fire support(unless you build for 10k positrons, but than it kinda defeats the purpose and doesn’t carry a punch that mid range has), and amount of dmg LRF can pump out with Positrons is just ridiculous,  and no there is no other ship capable of doing so, not CovOp not a gunship, especially at ~5 000 ranges. 

 Empire LRF can be a sniper with main-guns as self defence and sit god knows where, while Jericho simply can not, the only way to play efficient Torp boat is mid range fire support, spitting torps with tycheon charge only, Empire LRF can take on the same role, but it can not shot “F” at will, as i said earlier it has 3 second delay of downtime, by that time your target will break a LoS.

 

My concern here is that Imperial LRFs don’t need to go close to do the same: you can simply sit near to a beacon and keep your disintegrator on another. 

My concern here is that Imperial LRFs don’t need to go close to do the same: you can simply sit near to a beacon and keep your disintegrator on another. 

you gonna be much-much more useful to your team if you don’t do that