Is it boring now?

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81

The reason why I called this threat an echo chamber of clueless is because that’s what it is. Most good players don’t bother to come visit here and tell you just how hilariously wrong you are, because they don’t see it being worth the bother. So you get a whole lot of clueless people saying “yeah, scissor totally counters rock, I agree”.

 

Only a couple problems with that:

 

A. The whole rock, paper, scissors argument was a minor sidenote. Ultimately, as much as I’d like to prove that I’m right, it isn’t central to the point I’ve been trying to make about the current balance of ships. So yeah, I wouldn’t be surprised if most “good” players didn’t bother taking the time to argue a minor sidenote to a larger conversation.

 

B. Despite your status as a “good” player, you have yet to earn any sort of credibility in this thread because you are too concerned about turning this conversation into a xxxx-waving competition.

 

C. Regardless of whether Star Conflict was designed and balanced backwards or not, you still have the same problem that I mentioned before. Namely, that a few ships go against the grain. Namely (going off of rock/paper/scissors), Covert Ops (which hunt Frigates) and Tacklers (which hunt Interceptors). And then of course you have ships that don’t have huge weaknesses to much of anything like Guards, ECM, and Command.

 

Unless ships are balanced on a per-ship level, these exceptions to the rule will become UP or OP with broad, unspecific patches that tweak all Frigates, Interceptors, or Fighters at once.

 

THAT is the main issue. Not whether Paper beats Spock beats Lizard.

 

D. This entire point about ship balance is secondary to the primary point of this thread. Which, in my mind, the reason for the game being boring as snorlax is because of the ever-increasing mother-loving grind. Synergy, credits, loyalty vouchers.

 

JPhack is of the opinion that a lack of teamwork is to blame. I agree on that point too.

 

That help clear things up for you?

82

And badness continues to echo, echo, echo…

 

I suppose at some point one has to understand that when people consistently believe that “scissors are that big blunt object that that counters rock”, there really isn’t any point in attempting to educate them. They are far too distanced from reality for that.

 

I mean really, when someone tells you that CO ships are designed to hunt frigates (what the f?) and tacklers are designed to counter ints (double what the f???), you have to understand that you are talking to someone so distanced from realities of the game, it’s utterly pointless to try to find a common ground. There simply isn’t any.

 

Reality: covert ops is the “ganker” designed to hit outlying ships, usually slower fighters or other interceptors and has little to no use against good frigate balls that will destroy him before his arc even finishes to run with the standard two shot combo. That means gunships preparing for assault, tacklers positioning for the hit run, command ships sitting in the back sniping, and interception of interceptors attacking or running away (WNJ, web, arc, etc).

Most of his modules are useless against heavy meat of the frigates and their lack of need to lock on target. If it can’t kill a target during the duration of orion and than disengage, it’s likely dead.

 

Tackler’s job is to slow down key ships and interceptors MUST carry anti-slow due to their speed reliance. That means it’s actually the weakest fighter against interceptors. Gunship can outturn and outgun and often outrun interceptors, while command can outtank them with shield. Tackler’s niche role is grabbing people who are overextended, usually those who are too slow to escape and preferably do not carry anti slows. That means slower fighters and frigates. His target painter is also borderline useless against ints that pop in two-three shots regardless of it, while very efficient against most frigates that lose a significant chunk of survivability when painted.

83

And badness continues to echo, echo, echo…

 

I suppose at some point one has to understand that when people consistently believe that “scissors are that big blunt object that that counters rock”, there really isn’t any point in attempting to educate them. They are far too distanced from reality for that.

 

Whatever the reality is, the game officially designates tacklers as inty-killers. As long as that doesn’t change, I’ll continue to say that tacklers are meant for countering intys, though presently they’re kinda there but not there.

 

 

Tackler’s job is to slow down key ships and interceptors MUST carry anti-slow due to their speed reliance. That means it’s actually the weakest fighter against interceptors. Gunship can outturn and outgun and often outrun interceptors, while command can outtank them with shield. Tackler’s niche role is grabbing people who are overextended, usually those who are too slow to escape and preferably do not carry anti slows. That means slower fighters and frigates. His target painter is also borderline useless against ints that pop in two-three shots regardless of it, while very efficient against most frigates that lose a significant chunk of survivability when painted.

 

Undeniably, the tackler is by no means a specialized inty hunter. They’re better for killing Imperial gunships.

84

Game is still boring. We need fixed tiers with skill based MM…But NOT with the current SR rating. 

85

And badness continues to echo, echo, echo…

 

I suppose at some point one has to understand that when people consistently believe that “scissors are that big blunt object that that counters rock”, there really isn’t any point in attempting to educate them. They are far too distanced from reality for that.

 

I mean really, when someone tells you that CO ships are designed to hunt frigates (what the f?) and tacklers are designed to counter ints (double what the f???), you have to understand that you are talking to someone so distanced from realities of the game, it’s utterly pointless to try to find a common ground. There simply isn’t any.

 

You know, referring to people in third-person while criticizing them is a symptom of rampant narcissism. Either that, or a god complex.

 

You’re right, there really isn’t any point to discussing this, because you are clearly only interested in picking at my opinion of specific ship types and their purposes. I’ve stated several times what the broader issue is, yet you refuse to discuss that topic.

 

We can resume this when/if you ever put your xxxx back in your pants.

86

Sorry, Luckyo, but based on your posting history you wouldn’t be happy with this game unless the only people playing it were 1,000 clones of yourself… and even then you’d somehow argue that everyone else was less skilled than you are.

87

Luckyo is just lacking me with him, cause, needs a Battle Buddy. 

88

Sorry, Luckyo, but based on your posting history you wouldn’t be happy with this game unless the only people playing it were 1,000 clones of yourself… and even then you’d somehow argue that everyone else was less skilled than you are.

Except that I was happy playing the game between 0.9.0 and 0.9.2. It was fun. People were actively playing, frigballs were largely absent with most squads being balanced between all three ship types (one frigate, one fighter, one int was a norm). Many other people who already left also liked it back then. Game was fast paced, dynamic and was fun to play for hours on end. Quite a few of them actually posted here back then, only to get shouted down by the current contingent of “oh noes, ints are still too powerful, buff my guard” baddies.

 

Then game the period of 0.9.2. onwards, where devs focused on making skill irrelevant, crushing all ships with high skill ceiling in viability and massively buffing ships that require little skill. This resulted in massive exodus of skilled players who found the game boring. Good luck queuing for T4/T5 now. None of those fun 10v10+ games all the time in prime time, hell, not even 4v4s. A good example of this was the evolution of ESB kill squad that went from int+fighter+frigate to fighter+frigate+frigate and eventually even to frigate+frigate+frigate.

 

If you think I’m alone with this, that’s because you don’t have any friends from top tiers of the game. Anyone playing at top tiers will tell you the same thing - these tiers died within weeks of “world of guards” manifesting itself there. Those who still remain largely PvE - if you want to meet the guys from ESB, Nova, high tier playing NASA and so on, you won’t find them in high tier PvP. They’re all PvEing waiting for the massive rollback that will bring ships that require skill for success back into the realm of viable, or noobstomping people in T3 because guards are not quite as broken there due to having less mods and scaling.

 

 

The only option for me right now is PvE sadly, which I don’t enjoy.

89

Luckyo is just lacking me with him, cause, needs a Battle Buddy. 

That is actually partially true. Far too many NASA pilots from our T5 times quit the game between 0.9.2 and today. Before we had out T5 squad almost every night. Now, I’d struggle to get one going even once a week. They’re almost all gone, I think only st1r and neo remain in game in addition to myself.

 

Depressing.

 

In fact, I still remember Neo’s words last time we tried doing it. “Enemy is all frigates, do you really think you have a chance with all these fighters and interceptors?”

 

He was right. If we frigballed that game, we would have won. And I don’t want to play frigball. And neither do most people at those tiers. They want a skill based gameplay, not a numbers game with skill having little impact on it, that is the current damage trading frigball wars. And so, I no longer have my buddies that formed out squad. They’re almost all gone from the game completely.

 

 

Seriously world of guards. xxxx you very much.

90

Yeah, I am experiementing with some things at the moment right now in the recording sector. I will be on, late, kicking butt. 

91

Yeah, I am experiementing with some things at the moment right now in the recording sector. I will be on, late, kicking butt. 

You… still?

92

Really? Really.

 

The game is dying because guards?

 

Time to come up with a new catchphrase.

 

 

 

First it was World of Engineers. Then they had two guns removed and their heal range and survivability were nerfed into the ground. Now you’re lucky to find an Engineer who doesn’t hoard his heals for himself or explode while his team watches with dumb expressions on their faces.

 

Then it was World of Covert Ops when they first introduced the Plasma Sword. Frigates were 'sploding everywhere. Then they nerfed the speed and durability of all interceptors. Not surprisingly, interceptors are still being flown en-masse.

 

Then came World of Jericho LRFs with 4 or 6 on one side of the map bombing everything. Torp was made vulnerable to AMS again, and suddenly Jericho LRFs are… less popular.

 

Then came World of Guards with their aura debuffs and pulsar spam. First, the pulsar was fixed so it wouldn’t go through objects. Second, they nerfed the speed and stripped guns down to 4. Third, minefields were made exclusive to LRFs. Fourth, shield resistance was nerfed. Fifth, inhibitor and AMS modules changed to timed cooldown instead of toggle.

 

Guards are still flown because they are one of the most effective units to suppress large groups of interceptors. That’s their job. They have been nerfed more than any other class, and yet interceptor pilots are still calling for more nerfs. Why? Because they can’t stand the thought that a single large “dumb” ship was actually designed to counter them.

 

So they call pilots who fly them “skill-less”, “stupid”, “n00bs”, and “I-Win-Button Whores”. Guess what? If you take Zerglings up against Hellions you’re gonna have a bad time. Either pick a different unit that is a natural counter or stop crying.

 

Very well said.

 

I think Guards have been nerfed enough. They are not OP ship anymore that takes no skill by activating  sustained debuffs and fly into battle. That was really wrong. Now it is much more tactical, you have to think when to use them.

 

Zergling analogy is great. There has to be some kind of counter to inty swarms, and Guard is for that. It is time to change tactics at that moment, and stop clinging to single ship class, is what i have always been saying. Situation still becomes a bit funny, when you have 5 or more guards swarmed up. Yes, that is still a bit silly. You can counter a few guards and engineers with some fighter firepower, but against a swarm of them there is only one thing you can do, and you know what that is. 

 

Luckyo, I am still online, so is St1r, and my T5 ships are collecting dust too. Come fly with me, might as well duo it, not much sense in making bigger squads for T5 anyway.

93

[…] and stop clinging to single ship class […]

^ This a million times over.

AFTERWARDS people should be allowed to talk ‘balance issues’.

94

"If you overspecialize, you will breed in weakness."

95

Darn, does this mean my ineptitude at flying interceptors is going to end me?

96

Darn, does this mean my ineptitude at flying interceptors is going to end me?

No, it means you should play other roles in order to see what their weakness are, and how to face them when you are in a ceptor.

 

It is fun, really it is  :fed002:

97

I mean that in i can fly anything that isnt a ceptor well

98

I mean that in i can fly anything that isnt a ceptor well

 

I had the same issue Finemw. And I learned that the hard way, because im a primary interceptor pilot. But now I can actually go into my secondary ships and be really good at them. If you only specialise in one thing and then a “capture the beacons” or realistic mode will be the most unfun thing in the world. Whereas me, I can take any ship and survive long enough in a vessel Im not really good at but know decently enough to be help my team win. 

 

Also, its just good practice to be a well rounded in your ships and there associated skills. 

99

I prefer to defend, not attack. For some odd reason i get ridiculously sucky inside of 2k range to enemy. I snipe and support, not dogfight.

100

I prefer to defend, not attack. For some odd reason i get ridiculously sucky inside of 2k range to enemy. I snipe and support, not dogfight.

 

To everyones own. I dog fight not because its hard but because its fun.