Introduce base Hull Repair Rates in suppressor-class Destroyers // pro <-> con

Ships
1

We have only shield repair for all ship classes in SC so far. The exception is (if I am not mistaken) the passive hull module “Regenartive Coating” from rank 7 on, that gives c. 47 hull repair pts, per sec. But is not used widely because the hull slots can be equipped more wisely (i.e. hull resistance to damage passive modules like Reactive Armor).

 

Question is, why the big ships like destroyers do not have any hull repair rates per basic design? I would argue that SC destroyers might have a crew or robots that would facilitate that in space.

 

I would suggest like this for basic hull repair in destroyers:
50pts./s  hull repair   => for c. every 15.000 hull pts.

 

Is this reasonable?

 

Here: [http://forum.star-conflict.com/index.php?/topic/30342-contest-ultimate-destroyer-concepts/page-5](< base_url >/index.php?/topic/30342-contest-ultimate-destroyer-concepts/page-5) I suggested the following for a sub-destroyer Light Cruiser-class (2/3 length of destroyers) :

 

Like all modern Light Cruiser warships it has the ability to repair its hull, (…)  They are equipped with outer hull-repair nano bots fed by the EM energy of the shield emitters. (…)

 

Hull:             54,000 pts.
Hull regen.:      180 pts./s    
Shield:        26,000 pts.
Shield regen.:    200 pts./s

 

 

P.S.: please do not over-interpret, but this topic was kind of inspired by this post: [http://forum.star-conflict.com/index.php?/topic/30409-its-time-to-increase-base-shield-regeneration-rates/](< base_url >/index.php?/topic/30409-its-time-to-increase-base-shield-regeneration-rates/)  “It’s Time To Increase Base Shield Regeneration Rates” 

2

Look up modules we have in game

there is hull repair actives

Destroyers can equip repairing drones into missile slots

3

Look up modules we have in game

there is hull repair actives

Destroyers can equip repairing drones into missile slots

Right:

*hull repair active modules! I forgot to mention. They are paired with shield repair active modules.

*Heavy repair drone (in missile slot of destroyers) I forgot to mention, too. The concurrent module is the destroyer’s Static Shield.

 

So pairing of base shield regen. with base hull regen. still is lacking somehow - especially in light of that hull is the most asset of Empire destroyers.

 

Ergo we need hull-repair-nanobots :fed013:

TCHQMyn.jpg

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i was reading “I would suggest like this for basic hull repair in destroyers: 50pts./s  hull repair…” (thinking: “mmm not sure if to agree”, until…) “…=> for c. every 15.000 hull pts.” HOLY xxxx!!..xD

 

50 pts /sec total should be ok

5

i was reading “I would suggest like this for basic hull repair in destroyers: 50pts./s  hull repair…” (thinking: “mmm not sure if to agree”, until…) “…=> for c. every 15.000 hull pts.” HOLY xxxx!!..xD

 

50 pts /sec total should be ok

I derived it from specs of that hull repair passive module (c. 47 pts./s) for frigates (c. 15.000 hull pts.)

With a hull of 50.000 strength pts. it would need c. 17 minutes to fully repair the hull strength if only “50 pts /sec total should be ok” !?!?

P.S.: I intended the base hull-repair to be mini counter measure against interceptor Plasma Arc as killer application against destroyers. I mean to say: o.k. if two or three interceptor with Plasma Arc attack one destroyer and finishing it off, that would be o.k., but only one single interceptor finishing off a destroyer alone is imho OP (and now they want even more base shield repair for interceptors …) It comes from the likeliness that an interceptor’s Plasma Arc normally can take out more than one destroyer’s turret/module/router with one attack (in trained hands that is, though, I must add) and therefore deal multiple times 5-6-7-8.000 hull damage pts.

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Destroyers don’t need to be any stronger.

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As I type these, you should know that I am not an interceptor pilot and I got almost no problems with destroyers as I avoid them if not in a suitable ship and go straigth for them if I am annoyed enough by them to pick my suitable ship. 

But… Don’t you think the suppressor class is already strong enough? Should there really be some kind of buff? I doubt it. 

 

P.S.: I intended the base hull-repair to be mini counter measure against interceptor Plasma Arc as killer application against destroyers.

 

Plasma Arc is a “counter measure” against destroyers (and relatively slower maneuvering ships). It is nonsense for destroyers to have a “special” counter measure against elements that are meant to counter them. Then there needs to be a counter measure of a counter measure of another counter measure, which makes no sense even while reading.

 

Every class has a weakness that can be exploited by some other class. Destroyers’ weakness is the Plasma Arc. “Getting focus fired” is not a weakness only for destroyers, all classes get obliterated when focus fired except destroyers get to survive some of these moments.

In my opinion, this “plasma arc weakness” is supposed to be countered by good aiming and choice of weapons / timing modules and probably a nice amount of decent positioning, not by a passive hull or shield regen for that matter.

 

 

“I mean to say: o.k. if two or three interceptor with Plasma Arc attack one destroyer and finishing it off, that would be o.k., but only one single interceptor finishing off a destroyer alone is imho OP”

 

We are really at the point where some destroyer pilots can claim it is not fair to be killed by one ship alone but be completely okay with single handedly obliterating some of the enemy team… 

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Focus fire is more often compared to every other class.

  1. They are bigger as any other class

  2. They are slower as any other class

  3. They can only have their full potencial in wide open areas.

The problem with hull repair (at least for me) is that you ‘need’ such a lot of time to have an effect or overcome a certain threshold of damage<repair.

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As I type these, you should know that I am not an interceptor pilot and I got almost no problems with destroyers as I avoid them if not in a suitable ship and go straigth for them if I am annoyed enough by them to pick my suitable ship. 

But… Don’t you think the suppressor class is already strong enough? Should there really be some kind of buff? I doubt it. 

 

Plasma Arc is a “counter measure” against destroyers (and relatively slower maneuvering ships). It is nonsense for destroyers to have a “special” counter measure against elements that are meant to counter them. Then there needs to be a counter measure of a counter measure of another counter measure, which makes no sense even while reading.

 

Every class has a weakness that can be exploited by some other class. Destroyers’ weakness is the Plasma Arc. “Getting focus fired” is not a weakness only for destroyers, all classes get obliterated when focus fired except destroyers get to survive some of these moments.

In my opinion, this “plasma arc weakness” is supposed to be countered by good aiming and choice of weapons / timing modules and probably a nice amount of decent positioning, not by a passive hull or shield regen for that matter.

 

 

“I mean to say: o.k. if two or three interceptor with Plasma Arc attack one destroyer and finishing it off, that would be o.k., but only one single interceptor finishing off a destroyer alone is imho OP”

 

We are really at the point where some destroyer pilots can claim it is not fair to be killed by one ship alone but be completely okay with single handedly obliterating some of the enemy team… 

Cant agree more

 

I derived it from specs of that hull repair passive module (c. 47 pts./s) for frigates (c. 15.000 hull pts.)

With a hull of 50.000 strength pts. it would need c. 17 minutes to fully repair the hull strength if only “50 pts /sec total should be ok” !?!?

P.S.: I intended the base hull-repair to be mini counter measure against interceptor Plasma Arc as killer application against destroyers. I mean to say: o.k. if two or three interceptor with Plasma Arc attack one destroyer and finishing it off, that would be o.k., but only one single interceptor finishing off a destroyer alone is imho OP (and now they want even more base shield repair for interceptors …) It comes from the likeliness that an interceptor’s Plasma Arc normally can take out more than one destroyer’s turret/module/router with one attack (in trained hands that is, though, I must add) and therefore deal multiple times 5-6-7-8.000 hull damage pts.

imagine a fed DD with 3 repairing drones (670 heal/sec aprox), adaptives on and hull mods, + 330-500 passive hull regen/sec, + shield base regen and F mode in shield regen. That nullifies about 1500 DPS, and considering you wont recieve 100% but near 50%, you can duplicate to 3000 DPS denial (average dps for a frig), just by doing nothing. Now try to deplete the entire 100-150k hull volume + shields of that destroyer.

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This could happen with high regen rates: (watch from 0:44 - 2:00, although the entire video is a master piece)

 

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imagine a fed DD with 3 repairing drones (670 heal/sec aprox), adaptives on and hull mods, + 330-500 passive hull regen/sec, + shield base regen and F mode in shield regen. That nullifies about 1500 DPS, and considering you wont recieve 100% but near 50%, you can duplicate to 3000 DPS denial (average dps for a frig), just by doing nothing. Now try to deplete the entire 100-150k hull volume + shields of that destroyer.

 

Wait wait you do unfairly exaggerate enormously! :fed013:

 

Look at what are my reference-specs originally:

 

Light Cruiser warship equipped with outer hull-repair nano bots (= not repair drones) fed by the EM energy of the shield emitters

Hull:             54,000 pts.

Hull regen.:      180 pts./s    

Shield:        26,000 pts.

Shield regen.:    200 pts./s

 

Would be nullification of about 380 DPS (damage per second per 100% efficiency, c. 760 DPS for 50%) and count on energy depletion of the Light Cruiser during battle and no repair lte say under 50% of total energy capacity.

 

Your estimates are exaggerated.

 

 

Now try to deplete the entire 100-150k hull volume + shields of that destroyer.

It is 54k hull in case of my Light Cruiser concept and, yes it would take a group of fighters to take it down (usual situation with alien hordes in open space)

 

I said it would take more than 1 interceptor plasma arc kamikaze to finish off this cruiser by damaging its active modules/router. Also, it would have less fire power than the suppressor destroyers and fit more into a tactical role BUT would survive -i.e. in open space- longer. 

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Please see my suggestion more differentiated, and please do not over bend the orig. specs, thank you!
 

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Plasma Arc is a “counter measure” against destroyers (and relatively slower maneuvering ships). It is nonsense for destroyers to have a “special” counter measure against elements that are meant to counter them. Then there needs to be a counter measure of a counter measure of another counter measure, which makes no sense even while reading.

 

Every class has a weakness that can be exploited by some other class. Destroyers’ weakness is the Plasma Arc.

Sure - let the biggest ship be especially vulnerable to the smallest ship class - now that is reasonable design !!

If you changed the bias that even the big destroyer should be killable in rather no time by interceptors, then you might get to the heart of my argument. Everything else in regard to balance and OP would be subject to tweaking and balancing.

 

In my view -imho- interceptors are OP – Empire gunships with plasma arc (like the Stingray) or are more reasonable, that’s an other situation, lets rather talk about that (or about frigates with plasma arc)!

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Wait wait you do unfairly exaggerate enormously! :fed013:

 

Look at what are my reference-specs originally:

 

Light Cruiser warship equipped with outer hull-repair nano bots (= not repair drones) fed by the EM energy of the shield emitters

Hull:             54,000 pts.

Hull regen.:      180 pts./s    

Shield:        26,000 pts.

Shield regen.:    200 pts./s

 

Would be nullification of about 380 DPS (damage per second per 100% efficiency, c. 760 DPS for 50%) and count on energy depletion of the Light Cruiser during battle and no repair lte say under 50% of total energy capacity.

 

Your estimates are exaggerated.

 

It is 54k hull in case of my Light Cruiser concept and, yes it would take a group of fighters to take it down (usual situation with alien hordes in open space)

but you are suggesting this feature into actual destroyers, not just your low shield/hull volume ship (which is fine)

15

Sure - let the biggest ship be especially vulnerable to the smallest ship class - now that is reasonable design !!

If you changed the bias that even the big destroyer should be killable in rather no time by interceptors, then you might get to the heart of my argument. Everything else in regard to balance and OP would be subject to tweaking and balancing.

 

In my view -imho- interceptors are OP – Empire gunships with plasma arc (like the Stingray) or are more reasonable, that’s an other situation, lets rather talk about that (or about frigates with plasma arc)!

For this matter i think the opposite: big ships should be really weak against small ships, and in the current state of the game, i feel that interceptors dont really shine as they should against destroyers (im not the first guy suggesting special weapons (high dmg, low everything else) for bombing duties). From my experience, plasma arc is a counter, but no way OP…unless you are flying a jericho destroyer with a very bad build. Empire doesnt give a xxxx about plasma arc and its dmg/component explosion dmg (they do care about loosing modules tho), fed doesnt care much either, jericho with 1 plated armor hull will be ok and in total position to fire back.

Why small ships should do well against big ships? cause big ships have strong firepower thanks to heavy weaponry but lack of precision/aim speed…its like trying to make a tank with an antitank cannon effective against airplanes: for that matter you use flak or guided missiles. Then you can say: lets make a flak destroyer…well…that would really obliterate small ships. Combine it with destroyers using heavy weaponry to take out frigates and destroyers and you will wonder: whats the use of smaller ships when you can do everything in a destroyer? You gotta balance the game somehow, and thats keeping the main role of a big ship. A giant cant kill a fly, lets *keep* it that way. Actually, destroyers do kill ceptors and they are pretty good at it, much more than i think they should in 1vs1; sure the guy can be a real pro, orbit insanely fast, use perfectly well the plasma arc (how did you let that guy plasma arc you just like that?), fire you for longer than a minute…but if you have half the skill of that ceptor pilot, you will win, eventually, after missing 90% of your shots for a minute or so. Wheres that fear LRF pilots feel when they engage a ship in close quarters?

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but you are suggesting this feature into actual destroyers, not just your low shield/hull volume ship (which is fine)

 

No - I am sorry, but I meant this as a new asset for a new type of ship, that I suggested, not for all older ship-classes (intys, fighters, frigates, destroyers) these should stay as they are now!

 

Sorry, I wasn’t that clear …

17

For this matter i think the opposite: big ships should be really weak against small ships…

Yes, that. Destroyers should be clumsy and inaccurate to the point of being helpless against interceptors. Equipping various point defence turret active modules can mitigate that vulnerability, but it comes with a price.

 

Killing interceptors should be the job of frigates, but I feel like they’re struggling with it currently. Destroyers then are just too durable; other than possibly losing some modules, they don’t particularly need to care about a single interceptor.

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For this matter i think the opposite: big ships should be really weak against small ships, and in the current state of the game, i feel that interceptors dont really shine as they should against destroyers (im not the first guy suggesting special weapons (high dmg, low everything else) for bombing duties). From my experience, plasma arc is a counter, but no way OP…unless you are flying a jericho destroyer with a very bad build. Empire doesnt give a xxxx about plasma arc and its dmg/component explosion dmg (they do care about loosing modules tho), fed doesnt care much either, jericho with 1 plated armor hull will be ok and in total position to fire back.

Why small ships should do well against big ships? cause big ships have strong firepower thanks to heavy weaponry but lack of precision/aim speed…its like trying to make a tank with an antitank cannon effective against airplanes: for that matter you use flak or guided missiles. Then you can say: lets make a flak destroyer…well…that would really obliterate small ships. Combine it with destroyers using heavy weaponry to take out frigates and destroyers and you will wonder: whats the use of smaller ships when you can do everything in a destroyer? You gotta balance the game somehow, and thats keeping the main role of a big ship. A giant cant kill a fly, lets *keep* it that way. Actually, destroyers do kill ceptors and they are pretty good at it, much more than i think they should in 1vs1; sure the guy can be a real pro, orbit insanely fast, use perfectly well the plasma arc (how did you let that guy plasma arc you just like that?), fire you for longer than a minute…but if you have half the skill of that ceptor pilot, you will win, eventually, after missing 90% of your shots for a minute or so. Wheres that fear LRF pilots feel when they engage a ship in close quarters?

 

Yes - in this light you got me somehow on your side, but I do not see the need for even more OP anti-destroyer interceptors. A fly cant kill an elephant, lets *keep* it that way.

 

O.k. if I got you right, you see it from the rock-paper-scissors perspective, one ship-class vulnerable to one other class vulnerable to the other …

 

But that’s where we differ, at some stage sheer mass does brake this logic: in that it would require more than 1 ship (attack) to counter the massive destroyers. I.e. it would need 4 interceptors, 3 fighters, 2 frigates to counter a destroyer (which has a certain weakness non the less!)

 

And I see the fire power of the destroyer more differentiated: if you have a meson canon it is good for defence against small fighters but weak for precision fire to take down certain objects (ships). If you fit on the Halo launcher then you are stronger in fire power, but have nothing against the killer intys - no real destroyer has that weakness.

 

 

Wheres that fear LRF pilots feel when they engage a ship in close quarters?

Sometimes other way round : Minelayer (for missile slot) in frigates! See we have it all, only not in destroyers.

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Destroyers should be clumsy and inaccurate … against interceptors. Equipping various point defence turret active modules can mitigate that vulnerability, but it comes with a price.

 

 

 

Nearly my point, auto-turrets are an active protection system. Price tag is : they are more imprecise and slower than manually used by the player!

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Sometimes I’m asking myself if some person lost their dimensions somewhere.

I’m not saying they are writing pure BS, but such nonlogic is somehow useless isn’t it?

A ship build for durability and weaponry shouldn’t annihilate anything smaller?

Tank vs. Airplane: Fail comparison. Both are each other in another area and none of them were effective against each other. Tank vs. MEN is comparable. If right equipped both can kill the other very good. Tank with machineguns and Men with Panzerfaust/mines.

Don’t think that a fly is immortal because it can dodge 90% of the shots. 10% hit them and if that’s enough to kill them, guess what? LOW HEALTH DIE FAST.