If not the engineers, than the guards at least. 6 turrets total.
mainly because generally kinetic and EM damaging weapons really, really lack dps. they need critical damage to be viable, and even then it’s moderate dps.
give them their guns to bring the scale back to balance.
It would be really broken with patriarch and ronin considering they already deal high dmg (also scimitar and blood tormentor)
also LRFs would be less useful if guards can do the same kind of dmg
No. Just no. 50% more damage on proxy mortars and mauler level alpha damage on ronins? Seriously?
Why do you always do this?
1 hour ago, ORCA1911 said:
Why do you always do this?
Guards is fine as it is. Some regular modules may need some slight rework.
3 hours ago, Scar6 said:
No. Just no. 50% more damage on proxy mortars and mauler level alpha damage on ronins? Seriously?
50% more weapons, not 50% more damage. Only LRF with 6 weapons seems a unfair advantage for this class.
19 minutes ago, aldermatias said:
50% more weapons, not 50% more damage. Only LRF with 6 weapons seems a unfair advantage for this class.
Not really. 50% more weapons = 50% more damage. 6 instead of the current 4 main guns, is basically 50% more firepower and rate of fire.
3 minutes ago, Koromac said:
Not really. 50% more weapons = 50% more damage. 6 instead of the current 4 main guns, is basically 50% more firepower and rate of fire.
I know that Koro. My point is, frigates should be have 6 weapons, but not necessarily more DPS like LRFs.
50 minutes ago, aldermatias said:
I know that Koro. My point is, frigates should be have 6 weapons, but not necessarily more DPS like LRFs.
More weapons = more shots fired every time interval.
More guns equals more dps.
9 hours ago, WolfKhanGeneral said:
If not the engineers, than the guards at least. 6 turrets total.
mainly because generally kinetic and EM damaging weapons really, really lack dps. they need critical damage to be viable, and even then it’s moderate dps.
give them their guns to bring the scale back to balance.
Or perhaps you should listen when people tell you your guard build is bad and instead of wasting cap slots on a shield regen boost your dmg
26 minutes ago, xKostyan said:
Or perhaps you should listen when people tell you your guard build is bad and instead of wasting cap slots on a shield regen boost your dmg
But ree gen is so gud, when u not get shot at and hoard your cap!
2 hours ago, aldermatias said:
I know that Koro. My point is, frigates should be have 6 weapons, but not necessarily more DPS like LRFs.
With that logic, nothing would change by adding 2 guns so why bother adding them?
1 hour ago, ORCA1911 said:
With that logic, nothing would change by adding 2 guns so why bother adding them?
Interceptors = 2 weapons, fighters +2 = 4 weapons, for the logic, frigates should be +2 = 6 weapons, but it is not happens, only for LRFs. It is just broke the game logic.
Quote
It would be really broken with patriarch and ronin considering they already deal high dmg (also scimitar and blood tormentor)
also LRFs would be less useful if guards can do the same kind of dmg
Because this, people choose the LRFs for the firepower and not for the class peculiarities.
Even the Ronin, built after the patch removing most frigate guns to 4 instead of 6, has 6 weapon module placements available, not just 4.
The devs kept in mind that they may decide to give them back the guns.
Honestly, it would make more sense to give Long Range Frigates a ‘damage boost’ without actually increasing damage from current levels and to simply reduce the amount of damage per gun,
while still actually buffing dps. just give the frigates their guns, even if the dps remains the same, it will look better.
also, kosty, the Ronin’s dps is fine, but only really with heavy blasters and curved reflector, with or without crit damage or that kinetic special weapon the vulcan.
everything else is weak af. That being said the vulcan is only viable because of the crit damage possible, and even then it only about matches or even comes just behind the heavy blasters with curved reflector.
Base damage on just about every single gun needs a rework.
the easiest way to do that would be to add the +2 guns to their original state.
It’s not like interceptors won’t be able to dodge,
or fighters for that matter.
skill is not nerfed, and it never will be.
And orca, even if the damage were to remain the same, you’d still have more of a chance to hit a target creating more dps in the long run regardless.
most weapons in the frigate class should do at least 3k damage at base MK.IV to do any damage at all to destroyers and high defense types of all classes regardless of regeneration levels.
furthermore kosty, for the heavy blasters alone, I do not see an extra 500 (not even an extra 150 damage per shot which can be dodged) dps as beneficial in the long run from an already decent gun that gets 4k dps already, (with 2727m range)
at the expense of not even being ready for the next battle with at least full shield volume and thus doing less dps in the long run because death happens too quickly. I’d rather not have to ‘self destruct’ just to get ready for the next run. thank you.
besides, while it would be a buff to my own ships, it would also be a nerf via increasing enemy dps to something that can actually threaten me.
1 hour ago, WolfKhanGeneral said:
And orca, even if the damage were to remain the same, you’d still have more of a chance to hit a target creating more dps in the long run regardless.
most weapons in the frigate class should do at least 3k damage at base MK.IV to do any damage at all to destroyers and high defense types of all classes regardless of regeneration levels.
You’re not looking at the bigger picture here, if you up the damage or dps (which is essentially the same thing in the end) for the purpose of defeating destroyers easily, it will result in people using it for killing everything else and barely never against destroyers. It has happened before.
And as for adding 2 extra turrets but matching it to the same stats as when it was before the change or close to it makes the whole idea kinda silly, why would anyone change it knowing one has to go through the designs of dozens of ships to add 2 turret mounts on each, resulting in the exact same thing as it was before = nothing changed in essence but time and resources were spent.
Do you understand the logistical nightmare of this idea?
And as for plain adding 2 turret mounts to get more damage for guards or engies, im against it, their role is not killing, its something else, killing may come as secondary ability only. Lets not elly them.
killing is the goal of all ships. How you kill is up to the role and your style and take on that role. it’s not to make it easy to kill dessies, it’s to make it possible for more guns to actually do any damage at all towards them. heavy blasters with curved reflector should NOT be the only one capable of it, and that’s with allot of trouble, and it’s not just destroyers, it’s for all types of ships even my own. there’s just not enough dps coming from guards and engineers to be much of a threat to most ships utilizing anything other than a good solid heavy blaster setup that’s a brawler type to boot (has to get close to do its damage)
I would agree to having engineers keep the 4 turrets, but I would prefer them get their proper 6 as well, and for guards, 6 turrets is a must.
as for going through the designs to add turrets? I doubt it would be a problem because the turrets already existed and the places to put the turrets on all of the ships? they’re already there.
I’m not pushing to get just more turrets for the same amount or similar damage per second. I’m pushing for more dps with the easiest way to do that is to add what already exists. turrets on existing hardpoint slots that already exist on ALL frigates. which is no doubt going to be very easy for the devs to do.
frigate swarms? just as much a part of the game as gunship swarms and interceptor swarms. make frigates viable. don’t like getting hit with dps from a slow ship? get behind it or take cover and wait for the right moment to strike.
If you want to make normal ships more able to actually kill elly ships, add these turrets with dps intact and increased to proper levels. This is the perfect point in the game for proper frigate dps to make a comeback for all gun types.
26 minutes ago, WolfKhanGeneral said:
there’s just not enough dps coming from guards and engineers to be much of a threat to most ships
Because they are built for something else.
All ship types are simply another way to kill. killing is and has always been the main goal for all ship types while adding their own little benefits for the team. engineers are the only class that has more of a focus on the benefits than killing. the only class, and that’s because of what they do, regardless of how much dps they have to bare.
If anything, the damage boost that long range frigates gain should come from very high critical damage, not the simple base damage boost that it gets on top of that.
very high critical hit chance should be the benefit the long range frigates gain, not the 6 guns while the other two classes only get 4.
All frigate types must gain their original 6 turrets, so their dps will be viable.
Base positron dps should be at a minimum of 3k.
Base Coil Mortar dps should be at a minimum 3k.
Base Beam Cannon should be at a minimum of 3k.
Mass drivers and Vulcan both should have a minimum high with close range at 4k-5k damage per second with 3500m range or less.
An EM weapon of high volume shots similar to heavy blasters, Mass Drivers and the Vulcan should bee created to create an EM high damage close range weapon.
The destructor being a close range weapon variant of the beam cannon with some extra features should feature similar damage but not quite as high damage as heavy blasters, 3.5-4k damage being a decent spot.
Heavy blasters can keep their current dps while with 6 turrets they’ll reach 4-5k dps which would match the Mass drivers, Vulcan, and possible EM weapon close range damage variants.
Interceptors alone have the easy ability to gain 2k+ dps on base damage alone.
Fighters have an easy ability to gain 3-4k dps on base damage alone.
Frigates? “sorry buddies, despite your extra size and harder maneuverability it was deemed you having decent damage was too op.”
Give them their Turrets back. A tackler has more dps than most of the guns available to frigates. A Tackler.
In short, long range frigate weapons should have a minimum of 3k damage per second while short range frigate weapons should have 4-5k damage per second.
2 hours ago, WolfKhanGeneral said:
If anything, the damage boost that long range frigates gain should come from very high critical damage, not the simple base damage boost that it gets on top of that.
very high critical hit chance should be the benefit the long range frigates gain, not the 6 guns while the other two classes only get 4.
All frigate types must gain their original 6 turrets, so their dps will be viable.
Base positron dps should be at a minimum of 3k.
Base Coil Mortar dps should be at a minimum 3k.
Base Beam Cannon should be at a minimum of 3k.
Mass drivers and Vulcan both should have a minimum high with close range at 4k-5k damage per second with 3500m range or less.
An EM weapon of high volume shots similar to heavy blasters, Mass Drivers and the Vulcan should bee created to create an EM high damage close range weapon.
The destructor being a close range weapon variant of the beam cannon with some extra features should feature similar damage but not quite as high damage as heavy blasters, 3.5-4k damage being a decent spot.
Heavy blasters can keep their current dps while with 6 turrets they’ll reach 4-5k dps which would match the Mass drivers, Vulcan, and possible EM weapon close range damage variants.
Interceptors alone have the easy ability to gain 2k+ dps on base damage alone.
Fighters have an easy ability to gain 3-4k dps on base damage alone.
Frigates? “sorry buddies, despite your extra size and harder maneuverability it was deemed you having decent damage was too op.”
Give them their Turrets back. A tackler has more dps than most of the guns available to frigates. A Tackler.
In short, long range frigate weapons should have a minimum of 3k damage per second while short range frigate weapons should have 4-5k damage per second.
You having problems flying guards is not a guards problem, that is your problem. Guards are really good, and not some pushovers you are trying to make them look like. Combination of at will aoe dmg reduction and huge amount of regeneration through active modules, with AOE dmg via pulsar and EM torps, backed up via weapons like CoilsMortair / Vulcan / Mass driver/ Heavy Blaster/ Positron / Desstructror and off combat high speed to get to the next choke point or back into battle from spawn makes them huge threats and game carries if used in the right situations by a good pilot. Even though I find some of the Jericho guards are still pretty bad, it does not change the general picture.