Game Modes and the Frig-Balls

Game Discussion Game Modes & Maps Discussions
1

Hi everyone, 

maybe some of you might feel the same way: There is nothing you can do about the frig-balls.

They will always win. Especially in Beacon Hunt the situation is becoming increasingly painful.

So lets sit together and see how we could ease the pain.

 

The problem are not the ships, since they can be defeated in 1v1 (all of them), but the clustering.

 

post-241597-0-51034900-1372929348.jpg

(I count 5 Guards and 2 Healers, also notice that I am still in the signature masking field)

 

Ideas to counter such instant-loss situation: 

 

  1. Randomize the beacon activation (its not much of a hunt if you can predict where the next beacon is).

  2. Put more distance between each beacon, so the frig-ball becomes a frig-trek which can be “thinned out” 

    also Inties and fighters would profit from this due to their superior speed. 

 

Please feel free to add comments and new Ideas.

2

agreed. random activation for hunts and distance will help also. you can see it in the new abandoned map where distance help break up less ‘pro’ frigballs.

 

3rd factor is map / game design in the first place. single point of interest creates these frigate balls in the first place because that is what’s needed to win (or not lose)

 

eg.

 

combat recon - cluster around captain

beacon hunt - cluster around active beacon, start clustering next beacon

detonation - cluster around last base

beacon capture - cluster around last base

 

game designer needs to rethink on how to avoid single points of interest in these situations

 

[edit]

 

simplest solution is to make heavy weapons VERY powerful - ie. anti frigate weapons that cannot one shot interceptors or destroy fighters easily. hence my suggestion for class limited weapons which you did not like too much :stuck_out_tongue:

 

[edit2]

 

since frigate spheres are such an issue - i think we could part from the rock-paper-scissors on this one and create a new role for all factions. an anti-frigate frigate. or change the role of LRFs as an anti frigate ship. it is currently somewhat but it’s too vulnerable against interceptors it wont work without adjustments.

3

[edit]

 

simplest solution is to make heavy weapons VERY powerful - ie. anti frigate weapons that cannot one shot interceptors or destroy fighters easily. hence my suggestion for class limited weapons which you did not like too much :stuck_out_tongue:

 

[edit2]

 

since frigate spheres are such an issue - i think we could part from the rock-paper-scissors on this one and create a new role for all factions. an anti-frigate frigate. or change the role of LRFs as an anti frigate ship. it is currently somewhat but it’s too vulnerable against interceptors it wont work without adjustments.

 

@edit1 : True, I dont like the idea, but a new (!) weapon with a dmg scaling to its target (maybe an active module modifier) size could work. 

 

@edit2 : I like that Idea, LRF are mostly useless in T3 and above. Snipers could have such a dmg. scaling.

Torpedoes are a bit more tricky: Maybe if you nerv down the missile shield to 300m and let the Torpedo explode premature when hit by it.  

4

A secondary objective that when captured make the main beacon pulsar all enemy team around it.  Pulsar does not activate when both the secondary and the main beacon are held by the same team.

 

 

We don’t have to stop at one.  We can have multiple secondaries with different effects like slowing down point ticks, or give healing or damage buff etc.

5

Random activation of Beacons has been asked for since Beacon Hunt came out. That was 2-3 months ago. Take from that what you will.

6

A secondary objective that when captured make the main beacon pulsar all enemy team around it.  Pulsar does not activate when both the secondary and the main beacon are held by the same team.

 

 

We don’t have to stop at one.  We can have multiple secondaries with different effects like slowing down point ticks, or give healing or damage buff etc.

 

I like that Idea, especially the one with the slowing down points tick. 

But I have the concern that about 50% of the Playerbase is that dumbed down that they wouldnt get the meaning of a secondary objective.

 

Random activation of Beacons has been asked for since Beacon Hunt came out. That was 2-3 months ago. Take from that what you will.

 

I know, and I posted it a few times, Kine also did that. 

Maybe the suggestion becomes now more “awareness” because its in the “suggestion-corner” (always think positiv) :wink:

 

Some kind of official statement would be appreciated: Are you aware of this?

7

I really like the idea of randomizing beacon locations.  

But as far as frig balls go, I would also encourage the development of more weapons that do moderate area damage.  So far there are a few (missile snipers, nukes, singularity balls, missiles) But I would like to see a few more. 

8

Yep.

 

As long as it’s Inty spam or Fighter spam, none has any problem, because Inty and Fighter are considered “pro” who can screw anyone he want.

 

And when frigates learn how to organize and go with others, either to increase survivability or to fulfill objectives,  people whine about that and frigate pilots are considered “N00bs”.

 

Seriously, have you guys seen how pathetic a lone frigate gets screwed up by a Fighter or an Inty with mass speed?

 

The problem lies in the design of roles itself, not the gamemode, alone Frigate=dead, Frigball=hated.

 

If you have Frigball that much, go to T2 where you see Inty/fighter everywhere and they screw up everything, Detonation: inty spam, grab bomb-die- grab bomb-die-grab bomb - plant-repeat. Recon: Inty spam, rush in use all modules + suicide - repeat till cap dies. Why not call them Intypam?

9

Let me tell you guys a very interesting story:

 

A Guard frigate went into a match, and he realized he was the only frigate in the game, he said to himself “wow, so proud I’m the only tanker in this match”. But things soon didn’t go well for him, he wasn’t able to do anything, and got killed by everyone despite of his massive shield and resists, he couldn’t shoot anyone because his weapon was not designed for close range.

 

He told a friend about that, his friend said “don’t worry, mate, I have a guard too, and I will go with you”. Those two went in a match together hoping everything to be alright. But nope, they both got killed one by one before they could reach any beacon.

 

And they  told another friend about that, he said “I have an Engy frigate, I can heal and warp, I’ll go with you guys”. Those three went to the field feeling confident in themselves. Things went out well at first beacon, they got to it on time and didn’t get killed. But warp gate was on cool down, they had to turtle to the next beacon, they got ambushed, the Engy was focused. His so-called combat drones got blown up so quickly he didn’t even realize they existed, he screamed for help, but by the time anyone could do anything , he found himself surrounded by Funny Blue Bubble Balls, and took a PA to his lower back. Without the Engy, the 2 guard Frigates shared the same fate.

 

They realized that they needed more help, so they called for another guard, another Engy for another warp gate, and in case the other Engy got killed. They also called 2 LRF mates to help with their mines. They went together so happily and destroyed everything that stood in their way, together forever.

 

That’s it, that’s how frigates are, either none or ball.

10

good post Bob !

 

old thread, old issues - mostly a thing of the past now

 

to keep you updated, the frigball issue a few patches before stemmed from cycling heals between ships in a heal squad. these guys don’t die and hence the gameflow usually ended up going to time when both sides balled it up into a stalemate.

 

if one side didn’t attempt to coordinate a frigate sphere, they tended to lose. Badly. so gameplay became linear - people complained and devs followed up with the series of healing nerfs that either infuriated frigate pilots or made little difference at all.

 

latest changes to engineer drones and the introduction of higher damage weapons made frigate balls less effective. So this is the place where we are now.

 

 

in case you missed it,

[http://forum.star-conflict.com/index.php?/topic/19405-healing-is-overpowered/](< base_url >/index.php?/topic/19405-healing-is-overpowered/)

 

and patches 0.8.3 up to 0.9.0 were mostly about addressing the problems there.

search Healing and 90% of the threads that come up were about frigate balls and ideas on how to nerf it’s effects.

11

Yep, I’m well-aware of the problem with frigates in the 8.x patch.

Imo, they designed frigates as none or ball, either useless or OP, unless you make an impact on that concept, you won’t reach a stable solution, nerf = no frigate, no nerf = ball. 

 

Inty spam is always the main trend in T2, and they are moving up to T3 now that frigates are nerfed.

12

Yep, I’m well-aware of the problem with frigates in the 8.x patch.

Imo, they designed frigates as none or ball, either useless or OP, unless you make an impact on that concept, you won’t reach a stable solution, nerf = no frigate, no nerf = ball. 

 

Inty spam is always the main trend in T2, and they are moving up to T3 now that frigates are nerfed.

 

Very true. 

The Frigballs are gone… for now. 

I dont think the frigs got nerved too hard, the main reason they vanished is the bubble-gun. Imo, its still waaay too OP. 

I guess thats the reason why the inties creep into T3. Its the most viable way to evade the bubbles. 

The new Game-Mechanics havent balanced the game. For me it still feels that there is only one viable Weapon per class. 

Actually the frigs are on the winning side, since they have 3 viable weapons (should be no frig-bashing, only wanna say that those weapons seem to be the best rounded-ups).

 

Randomize the beacons should still be there, its too predictable. Where is the hunt, if you can exactly predict where the prey will pop out? 

13

Interceptors are faster in T3 than they are in T2 hence why they’ve crept up. Plus the T2 guys graduating up the tier and they’re mostly inty pilots. It’s only natural.

 

Weapons wise

 

Inty = Shrapnel

 

Fighter = Bubble + Assault Rails

 

Frigate = Coil + Assault Laser + Hail

 

so it’s getting there. Error mentioned Blasters getting a tweak soon so that’ll sort out Frigate weapons

 

And yea Singularity solved frigballs but they are OP because it’s still killing interceptors and fighters almost as easily which it shouldn’t be doing.

 

As for game modes, I haven’t been able to judge properly coz people aren’t playing it. As in people aren’t flying for objectives as consistently as they are flying for synergy. So … until that’s solved, can’t say much.

 

 

[edit]

 

For the record - nerfing shrapnel was dumb. Buffing up the others was the way to go not screwing down an already weak set of weapons.

14

Inty = Shrapnel

 

Fighter = Bubble + Assault Rails

 

Frigate = Coil + Assault Laser + Hail

 

so it’s getting there. Error mentioned Blasters getting a tweak soon so that’ll sort out Frigate weapons

 

And yea Singularity solved frigballs but they are OP because it’s still killing interceptors and fighters almost as easily which it shouldn’t be doing.

 

As for game modes, I haven’t been able to judge properly coz people aren’t playing it. As in people aren’t flying for objectives as consistently as they are flying for synergy. So … until that’s solved, can’t say much.

 

 

[edit]

 

For the record - nerfing shrapnel was dumb. Buffing up the others was the way to go not screwing down an already weak set of weapons.

 

I very much agree. 

Especially Inties have a bad set of weapons. 

Tonight Ill try to get the Blaster working for me. You can use all weapons on the Inty… except Laser maybe (its just not worth it) But you will have a glass-canon in all cases. Shrapnel was fine, there was no need to nerv it. The old RFR was waaay OP in the right hands. 

15

 Inty and Fighter seem to be designed as ships rely on individual skill, if you fulfill your role well, you do it well, and you can do it alone. While Frigates on the other hands, depend on the formation of group.

 

And don’t say skill this skill that, skills are always required if you want to fly a ship well, a LRF who can observe the map, good positioning, going for the right target, and has good build is  good as a good Inty pilot. Same for other Frigates, it’s just that their skills don’t shine as an individual, but as a team. And if you are in a war, you don’t rely purely on individual skill or a result of a single combat.

 

About the weapon part:

 

You can take out Assault laser, most experienced Frigate pilots don’t use it. I’m sticking with Hail, I like it (It works wonderful on my LRF Cerberus, for the first time I can use a LRF as a real sniper), but the tweak on the Heavy Blaster sounds promising.

 

Coil doesn’t do much against a good Inty/Fighter pilot, they can dodge it easily, rate of fire is too slow even on a LRF. 

 

Frigballs are solved, but you don’t see frigates much in T3 anymore, it’s just the same as how T2 was. There was a Recon match I have to suicide to take my Engy ship out to heal the cap because there wasn’t any Engy, and he was on very low hull+shield (for some reasons I got called n00b for that !?).

 

We still have to wait for a while for the community to get used to the new weapon system, my prediction is that frigball has a high chance of coming back once the weapons get enough tweaks for balance given frigate’s concept of relying on group haven’t changed.

16

a random bunch of us tried just now. realistic beacon capture. mostly guards + engy 2:1 ratio

 

started first on our side and as we killed off their attack ships, they started coming back as frigs and stalemate with 2 bases each

 

ironically - our interceptors consistently managed to break through and assassinate enemy engineers one by one. (3 man premade)

 

they effectively won it for us … so i dunno what to say. frigballs will slow down the game but it isn’t impenetrable like how it used to be. and no matter how this or that person cries for CovOps - they can still get the job done so i had a GG thx to them.

17

Frigballs were never the problem, the immortality was the problem.  Frigballs show teamwork and cooperation.  The only problem to me is that the other team had too much trouble stopping it.

18

@Jirisom: That’s where we always have been stuck. Frigates have to ball up to utilize their modules effectiveness, thus increasing surviability, using defense as an offense.

 

Because Fighter  and Inty lack the ability to utilize the advantage of scale (5 ships=5.5 ships, unlike frigates: 2 ships= 1 ship, but 5 ships= 8+ ships). Once a frigball is formed up, they won’t be able to keep up.

 

Solution:

 

-One way is to change how frigates are, allow them to be able to take part in combat, or the ability to manage things alone, but this would discourage the teamwork aspect of the game, and frigates will not be frigates anymore, so it’s hard to do.

 

-Another way is to reduce the support burden on frigates and change Fighter and Inty, allowing them to be able to take part in the group to utilize the advantage of scale and share the roles with frigates. This also allows more teamwork and balance the number of ship/role in a match.

19

They shouldn’t have done so many weapon changes so soon after the engineer nerfs.  The engineer healing was the problem.  I can remember being in a sweet spot under a ball, firing away with RFP.  It may have said 330 DPS, but that’s not the case when single shots are getting over 300 damage.  It had to have been over 1.5k dps.  The shields weren’t going down!  Once that happens, I become a distraction to the frigate, and a target to everyone else.  Let the frigates ball, they should, but let them die!  Now we have a bunch of overpowered weapons designed to get everyone more kills.

 

But assault rails on a gunship, OP. :Dwop