Game mechanics exploit ? Report function ?

1.) Free to attack whoever you want any way you want =/= free to exploit the game mechanics. 

 

2.) The mechanic itself is built to ensure that an attacker will be punished in a specific way. You are exploiting a very particular flaw in the mechanic to generate the complete opposite effect which is clearly game breaking. 

 

3.) So the remaining question is : Do the developpers/game masters approve of game breaking exploits for the sole reason that it happens in open space? 

 

4.) So far I’ve never seen exploits being encouraged/allowed in others game, regardless of the mode, the reasons or whatnot. This specific one would turn open space into a mess if more people were behaving like that, everybody blowing themselves up isn’t really what this game is about, is it? 

 

5.) Though, once again, that’s not my call and I said what I had to say. I’ll let the staff handle this issue since they believe it is in some grey area and my only wish is to have an answer one way or the other. 

1.) No, it’s a freedom of such mode, which is still regulatory and allowed. There is no known policy for an Invasion mode, if you follow standard rules.

I am affected in the same way, like any other individuals. No exceptions. I wasn’t exploiting anything. I did, what the game allows me to do, which is not against any known regulation.

 

2.) After each collision-self-destruct kill, your points were deducted and you were considered to be a Criminal by Military Police. It was me, who wrote a supposed bug report for this exact same issue some time ago.

This issue is old and I was the one, which explained it, how it works. For me, it is irrelevant. There is no written regulation, how to handle any such actions in Invasion.

This include Karma farming, killing vulnerable low or high level players, or make them a Criminal by choice or accident, if you will. You’re clearly being too subjective.

Since Skula1975 told us, that this is a feature, there is nothing more to discuss, maybe only to alter some mechanic parameters to prevent this, which affects certain behavior, under certain action, like described in a locked thread below.

 

Read it again!

 

3.) Developers are the ones, which tell you what is permitted or not.

We got a green light on this, so this can and will continue, unless if some rules were to be constructed, which prohibits a player from certain “dirty” actions, but for now they’re legal and permitted actions.

 

4.) Invasion mode is fun, because you really can’t break any rules, if you follow EULA and in-game policy rules. You got the same advantage or disadvantage, like me, or any other player.

 

5.) It’s not an issue. It may be gray area or dishonorable deed, but there is no ground to hold any consequences, unless if the policy rules will be updated effective immediately, after they are published and in effect.

Bottom point is that there was no violation whatsoever.

That is still the very definition of a game mechanic exploit. Otherwise it’d be a glitch or bug exploit which is a different form of exploit. That’s precisely because the game allow you to do it at broken ends that aren’t meant to be that it is fitting the definition. 

 

It’s an issue with the game itself and it needs to be looked at and thus far according to your prior thread you seem to agree that it needs to be fixed / altered so I’m not sure what you’re trying to accomplish here since we’re on the same boat. 

 

That being said the further I respond the further you seem to take this on a personal level despite the fact that it has nothing to do with you and me. You took the time to engage in a civil exchange of point of view which I appreciate, however we have now both clearly made our points, I don’t want this to become a sterile discussion and as such I believe it’s time to move on.

 

The devs said they will discuss it which is already more than enough for me.

 

So, have a good day sir. 

Keep it civil, guys.

And yes, as was stated, we are discussing it.

This bug still seems quite frank and unusual, along with being hard to fix.

At one end you can abuse the ram and then suicide option to exploit a mechanic, but at the same time people can use ramming as a tactic to destroy ships (thus branding them a criminal for killing players through collision damage). However the core issue at fault is the self destruct counting as a kill. If that is removed, the mechanic can’t be exploited. But seeing how some other people beat me to a possible set of solutions I’ll leave this comment up as my take on the issue at hand.

That is still the very definition of a game mechanic exploit. Otherwise it’d be a glitch or bug exploit which is a different form of exploit. That’s precisely because the game allow you to do it at broken ends that aren’t meant to be that it is fitting the definition. 

 

It’s an issue with the game itself and it needs to be looked at and thus far according to your prior thread you seem to agree that it needs to be fixed / altered so I’m not sure what you’re trying to accomplish here since we’re on the same boat. 

 

That being said the further I respond the further you seem to take this on a personal level despite the fact that it has nothing to do with you and me. You took the time to engage in a civil exchange of point of view which I appreciate, however we have now both clearly made our points, I don’t want this to become a sterile discussion and as such I believe it’s time to move on.

 

The devs said they will discuss it which is already more than enough for me.

 

So, have a good day sir. 

It is not personal. I only disagree with your definition of this issue.

I still agree that Criminal System is outright stupid in some ways.

 

I think that we need “Pay Bounty” system, which will erase certain deeds or an entire new Criminal System, similar to GTA V.

1 star - 5 stars. More evil deeds you do, the more dangerous it will be, to be a criminal.

 

New thread will be needed, which will account for every possibility.

For me it would be enough, that only hits, which resulted in a final kill and any types of collision, which resulted in a kill, should be counted as a criminal behavior.

Seeing as you are new to this invasion, do note that if a squad mate has station protection Off then ALL people in the squad will have protection removed while they are in that squad. If all members have protection ON then you still retain protection.

We have discussed this point with the team. This situation can’t be considered as an exploit or a bug. The thing is that open space gives a lot of freedom to the players and sometimes it might lead to that kind of situations, but, if we start adding a dozen of restrictions to it, open space will lose its unique atmosphere. 

We have discussed this point with the team. This situation can’t be considered as an exploit or a bug. The thing is that open space gives a lot of freedom to the players and sometimes it might lead to that kind of situations, but, if we start adding a dozen of restrictions to it, open space will lose its unique atmosphere. 

Add only a few exceptions.

 

Collision with a neutral ship and self-destruct trick won’t affect a neutral ship and make it a criminal. Same goes with any intended crash after collison, by obstacle or by Recon-warp and a Warp-Gate.

Missile Field from any such related missiles won’t make you a criminal, if you did not fire at some neutral ship first or that ship already entered that field area.

Enemy Convoy or bots in general should not mark you as a criminal, if you hit it once accidentally, but only if your shoot did not resulted in a kill. If enemy kills it, you should not be affected, even if you got assistance points.

If the target is red, because of your prolonged fire and that target is killed, you should become a criminal.

Do not attribute some kill to a player, because that player shot at it once and the bot destroyed it afterwards. You should get assistance karma, but not the status of a criminal in such case.

 

Should I create a new thread on this subject, or was this understandable?

Add only a few exceptions.

 

Collision with a neutral ship and self-destruct trick won’t affect a neutral ship and make it a criminal. Same goes with any intended crash after collison, by obstacle or by Recon-warp and Warp-Gate.

Missile Field from any such related missiles won’t make you a criminal, if you did not fire at some neutral ship first or that ship already entered that field area.

Enemy Convoy or bots in general should not mark you as a criminal, if you hit it once accidentaly, but only if your shoot did not resulted in a kill. If enemy kills it, you should not be affected, even if you got assistance.

If the target is red, because of prolongeed fire and that target is killed, it should become one.

Do not attribute some a kill to a player, because a player shot at it once and the bot destroyed it. You should get assistance karma, but not the status of a cirminal in such case.

 

Should I create a new thread on this subject, or was this understandable?

 

 

I wholeheatedly agree with Koromac here. 

 

I’d rather not have a criminal system and a true free for all if said criminal system can be gamed that way. Though, that’s none of my business anymore since the devs have spoken and I simply hope they will reconsider it at some point. 

 

Thanks for taking the time to answer and clarify the situation either way

I wholeheatedly agree with Koromac here. 

 

I’d rather not have a criminal system and a true free for all if said criminal system can be gamed that way. Though, that’s none of my business anymore since the devs have spoken and I simply hope they will reconsider it at some point. 

 

Thanks for taking the time to answer and clarify the situation either way

I hope that they will care enough to improve it.

Developers, if you agree, I will make a thread on how to improve these mechanics.

if i read the logs correctly, what happened in that snippet is that the healing module got you into the assist of koros suicide, which counted as kill for your wingman Louronet, since they collided before that, doing damage to each other.

make sure both you and your wingman have the station protection enabled if you team up in open space and dont want surprises like this.

you can always switch sector if you can afford it, which isnt a solution but at least, you can move somewhere else quickly; or just retry docking out later so you land in another instance.

which is tricky, if you are in a group, and your playmate is still waiting outside a station, in that case you should both redock, otherwise i think you get in the same instance as your group member, if there is space.

i do have to say in your benefit tho, the assist system could need minor tweaking for these causes (especially for aura modules assists, or suicide+collision kills)

being healer is really hard in openspace, if one of your group decides to be a criminal, you are always involved, and you cant just turn off your heals anymore.

also dont forget you can check your station protection icon being there in the buffs.

not sure if these are real exploits, coz they dont seem to me.

at least from my standpoint, there were several factors in this, which you could have prevented; like asking your wingmate if he has station protection…

also consider the other case in this, if the healer would not be punished for aiding a criminal in criminal things, what that would make possible. :slight_smile:

@g4borg

 

My team mate had the station protection on, I checked with him when it was mentionned in the thread earlier. 

 

What I think happened : 

 

I damage Koromac, thus me and team mate both lose protection. 

 

I get killed, spawn with protection but team mate doesn’t have it so I lose it again. 

Team mate gets killed, spawn back and since I lost it he loses it too due to the healing assist. 

 

Etc etc

 

It seems that we never had it both at the same times (we had it both enabled but the chain of event made it that way apparently) and disabled one after the other our own protection. 

Not possible since you are not able to damage somebody as long as your station protection is on. It is impossible to turn it off without turning it off in hangar, having low Karma or leaving the protected area.

Not possible since you are not able to damage somebody as long as your station protection is on. It is impossible to turn it off without turning it off in hangar, having low Karma or leaving the protected area.

 

Nope.

Read again my initial situation, we weren’t around the station, Koromac was yellow in another area and I damaged him first but I NEVER disabled my protection. I am guessing it goes off when you fire at someone who is yellow otherwise how would I have lost it? 

Simple thing.

Some sectors have station protection avaible.

Some sectors have not.

Means in the sectors with station protection OFF, nobody has it, not even players who have it enabled.

You can check this on the Galaxy Map and hover your mouse over the sectors, then you see if station protection is on or off.