Extensive feedback from a newbie

Hello there fellow pilots o/

 

I’m relatively new to the game and want to give a little feedback, in hope it is of worth to someone who wants to make the game more awesome.

Disclaimer: When I say “like in game X” that doesn’t mean I want SC to become this game. What I mean is that other games do good things too. So why not learn, adapt some of it to this one, and make Star Conflict better for everyone?

 

This feedback report is written for involved SC community members and the game makers.

If you don’t feel like reading, skip to chapter 3.

 

1. Where I am

 

I have spent about 8 days in this game, according to my profile. That translates to almost 200 hours. I tried the game in 2013 and dismissed it because I was bored to death with the T1 gameplay (more on that later). I returned a few weeks ago and have reached rank 7 with Empire gunships, Jericho command ships and guards, and Federation Tackler and Engineer. My win ratio is slightly in the positive, but taking a hard hit from all the veterans at tier 3.

At this point, I consider myself an advanced pilot. I have played similar games (team-based arena shooters like World of Tanks and War Thunder) and benefit from the things I learned there. I know how stuff works in general, and I know very well where I am skill-wise, both in general and in SC.

 

 

2. How the progression felt

 

When I started in 2013:

The gameplay is awesome! Flying around in space, shooting lasers and bullets everywhere - who doesn’t like that?

Then I got my rank 3 ship and calculated how many games I would have to do with my average synergy income to reach the next ship. Then I did mindless grinding, then I quit. T1 numbed my brain, I couldn’t bear it. And the problem wasn’t that tier 1 is easy - in fact, I find that very important. The problem was that when I understood the basics, I still had to play T1 for way too long. And what do I get for grinding a new ship? One passive module slot, that’s all? That may have worked in the 90s, but nowadays people expect to get a bit more out of their time.

A game that is in principle awesome made me quit because the newbie area is too time-consuming and boring!

 

When I came back in 2015:

The gameplay is awesome!

More grinding to try out other ship classes (I only had one ship back then, the Jericho command ship). Boring as hell, but at least I found out that pretty much all the classes in this game feel interesting to play. And that’s quite an achievement! I even had fun in the Empire sniper, despite the fact that it doesn’t fit my playstyle at all. So there you go developers, good job with the classes!

My only complaint there would be that a tackler is not really a tackler. It’s more of a weird double hybrid - it has very good cloaking with damage buff and uses stationary drones, mixed with tackling sklills that are very easy to counter. It’s something like a support-assassin-hybrid with a slow aura. Weird and inconsistent, or maybe I’m too stupid to understand the tackling part. Either way, it’s still tons of fun to play, so I don’t mind that much.

 

Playing T2:

Feels good! People start using their brains, and PvE is way more interesting. Progression feels better, module customization becomes possible, and there are a few new PvP game modes and new maps. My only complaint is that the tutorial mission thingies are totally bonkers. I played 100 hours and still wasn’t able to get through the tutorial, because it told me to do things that are limited to T3+ (placing bombs). Other than that, this tier feels nice.

The PvE is still a bit weak though - there are no dynamic changes in the missions, no chaos factor, everything is always exactly the same, and always tons and tons of NPC mobs, so playing anything other than Guard or Engineer seems somewhat pointless. Fighters are still ok, but the interceptors are more of a single target specialist, which is utterly useless against minion spam.

 

My most favourite PvE mission is Crimson Haze. It features three interesting stages, first attacking the outposts, then getting through a station (!) to capture the whole thing, then a tower-defense. It’s awesome! The PvE really has potential to be fun. I hope that someone in the development team is allowed to build even cooler missions, because as it stands, the number of different missions (on rank 4-9) is not that high, and many of them suffer from the minion spam problem.

 

Playing open world:

Woo, flying through space! Cool areas, cool flying around in a squad with your friends. I very much like this one. But! Not cool:

  • can’t fly with friends because they have contracts for other factions :frowning: (seriously, everything that keeps us away from our friends is a very critical problem in the gameplay)
  • most regions are not accessible unless you reach T3+ - giving newbies a warning for the dangerous parts is fine, but please please PLEASE let me play your game if I want to! I have a cloaking ship dammit, why can’t I go into dangerous space?
  • not much reason to go into open world (yet?). There are only NPC groups that will 2-hit any newbie who dares to undock (not fun), and nothing alse to find beside the nice landscape. I’m not sure how new this open world thing is; I heard it’s pretty new, so I can forgive that. Still needs to be fixed in the future. Otherwise the space will stay empty.

The combination of not being allowed to go anywhere and not being allowed to go with your friends pretty much kills this game mode right now. But developers, don’t be discouraged. For me, this is the most interesting part of the game. Flying through the wilderness of space together with your friends? Remember that Freelancers game? Freelancers co-op? *hint hint* That’s a HUGE selling point. This mode alone would make me happy already - you know, if I could play it.

 

Playing T3:

After having fun in tier 2, I recently reached tier 3. I was excited, because it looks beefy. More playstyle customization (module slots), more PvP modes, more module types, more maps. Great, right?

Well, kind of. The cost increase for upgrading ship modules, or even just equipping the oney I want, has become a pain in the xxxx. So no upgrades for a long long time. At least I got more variety in both modules and game modes/maps. Not being able to upgrade is a bit annoying, but in the context of a free to play business model I can see why it is there.

 

What I do have a little problem with is how the PvP matches feel. My sample size is still low (maybe 10-20 matches), but so far it’s not very pleasant. When I played League of Legends, I would be thrown into games with people of nearly equal skill. There was always a hidden ELO system. That is more fun for everyone, because pros actually get a challenge instead of just noobfarming all day, and low skill players get an interesting game instead of getting stomped all day. I understand that the low player count is an issue here, which is one reason why I write this. I want to give feedback, so the game can improve and draw more people in.

 

In theory T3 should be ok, but due to the density of veterans it feels quite hostile. And telling me to “just learn the advanced play” is not going to help. I put 200 hours into this game. And I can assure you that I’m one of the better players out there. An average gamer is VERY likely to quit at this point, because if you still feel like xxxx after playing a game for 200 hours, then what’s the point in going on? If the game punishes the player for not being a pro, then people won’t play. It’s that simple. Always remember the bell curve. The vast majority of people are NOT pro, and never will be. If you leave them out, everyone still in the game suffers from it.

That being said, I’m not giving up at this point. Not yet, anyway. I want to see more of the progression, and maybe help making the game better by giving feedback. Just keep in mind that the average gamer will probably quit at hitting T3. Well, if he doesn’t quit at T1, that is.

 

 

3. My first analysis, and how the game can become more awesome

 

First of all, I want to make clear that this game could be very successfull. The core gameplay is awesome and feeds the Sci-Fi thirst very well. It is free to play, and there is no competitor out there - no bloody “WoT in space” except for this game. So why are the Star Conflict servers not already filled to the brink with people?

 

In order to get larger player numbers, I found out a few cornerstones in the last couple years. These are my advices to increase the number of players, which are both content providers and customers in this type of game:

  • make it easy to learn and accessible : One of the two main reasons why World of Tanks is such a huge success is the fact that a 6 year old can play it and have fun. It’s very easy to get into. The fast pace, small targets, and especially the third dimension make Star Conflict inherently alot more difficult to play. So we need to do everything we can to make the rest of the game as smooth as possible:
    • Don’t lock people away from game content (open world area locks, PvE rank requirements). Having extra stuff for corporations is perfectly fine and encourages people who want coordinated play. But after playing for 200 hours I’m still hardlocked out of half the non-corporation stuff. DEAD CONTENT IS NOT GOOD! Neither for the player, nor for the game maker (it doesn’t generate income if nobody can access it).
    • Don’t lock people away from their friends! A multiplayer game where you can’t play with others? NOT GOOD! The part of the game that suffers from this is open world gameplay. The whole faction separation thing makes sense if it is used gameplay-wise (like faction warfare in PlanetSide 2). But that is a different type of gameplay and would require tons of additional work here (not going to happen). In Star Conflict, you want everyone to be able to play with everyone, so please developers, decouple the station binding from the contract work. It doesn’t serve any gameplay purpose, is annoying as hell and costs you real money.
    • Allow newbies to progress faster! As I said above, the problem with tier 1 is not its low difficulty. The problem is that I can’t skip the boring crap if I already have basic skills or am a quick learner. As far as I understand, the main game begins with tier 3. It took me 200 damn hours to get to the low end of it. NOT GOOD! The lowlevel progression is way too dragged out. Tiers 1-2 should be an introduction, and nobody likes 200-hour-introductions.
  • support casual (a.k.a. make them come): People will not go out of their way to play your game. A small elitist community is the best way to bring a game to its grave. And it would be a shame if this happens to Star Conflict, because many people like lasers in space! Despite common belief, the vast majority of gamers are casual players. The hardcore players are the ones who care alot about the game, thus are very important. But those players are only 5-10 percent of all gamers out there. Why would you want to keep out the other 90%? Nobody likes long queues and large skill gaps. According to the little update information I have seen so far, adjusting for the casual players seems to be an already ongoing process (UI improvements, use flow improvements, avoiding meaningless complexity etc.), and I encourage everyone to keep these efforts going.
  • make it hard to master, and make the path enjoyable (a.k.a. make them stay): Now this one is pretty simple and is already done for the most part. There are enough long term goals, and with the upcoming of the dreadnoughts there is lots of cool endgame on the horizon. People do crazy xxxx with their ships, and there is enough to learn and see, both in content and skill, although more cool PvE missions like Crimson Haze would be nice. Now we only need to remove the things that make the path a pain in the xxxx (see other points).
  • Make paying money easy : Games can not be free, most people get that. Game making and game maintenance cost money. So while a free to play concept is perfect for dragging people in, you still need to figure out a way to get some cash in. And the best way to do that is making it feel like a win for both sides. The “premium account” thing is the most common one and always accepted. Trade money for time, that’s fair. Skins are always accepted, pay money to look cooler, that’s fair. Paying 20+ bucks for ONE ship that I can’t even test, questionable. Now I don’t tell you to remove those ships, or those 100 dollar DLCs. But what I say is this: add SOME reason for common people to throw money at you! I tried to find something that I can buy without making me feel like an idiot, but to this day I haven’t found anything. Where is the reasonably priced convenience stuff? Either it’s not there, or not visible enough. People inherently WANT to spend money on useful and reasonably priced things, you just have to give them the opportunities to actually do it. Instead, I can buy a single grey module for a dollar, or a tier 1 premium ship, and have more “fun” in tier 1… :frowning:

 

 

  1. Conclusion

 

Star Conflict is an awesome game that suffers from a few crippling issues that can be fixed with low to medium development cost. The game market looks very good, the core gameplay is solid and fun, and the free to play model allows everyone to play the game. So there is absolutely no reason why SC should be in its current state. I feel a bit sad that the server population is so low, and I hope that somebody listens to my tiny voice.

 

 

Feel free to discuss :slight_smile:

 

 

PS: I REALLY like lasers in space. And I have experience in software development and design, as well as two decades gaming experience, the last couple years more on the analytic side. Where would be a good place to start if I want to help making Star Conflict more awesome by cooperating with the developers?

They don’t even listen to their GMs…

 

You have some good points but as all good ideas from community will go to land of tomorrow (but tomorrow is always tomorrow so it never comes)

It was a pleasure reading your feedback , i hope  read more in the future welcome aboard Denolven.

I can agree to most of what you said completely. You reminded me of issues I have by now forgotten, but I had them aswell. I am also happy, that many things have changed over the last few months, but much of what you said, were said years ago aswell, and I whish, they will listen to you.

 

I guess, after a while, the rebel died in me, quietly.

Spot on!  I agree with a lot of your points!  Now to implement them…

 

It’s funny you didn’t mention advertising as a solution for low population. That is what most people want.  But the changes you suggest instead can be put into place with little effort and without the devs having to pay money.

 

 

They don’t even listen to their GMs…

 

You have some good points but as all good ideas from community will go to land of tomorrow (but tomorrow is always tomorrow so it never comes)

 

Today will be yesterday tomorrow.  Did you know that?

 

Today will be yesterday tomorrow.  Did you know that?

tomorrow land doesn’t work like that, tomorrow is always tomorrow

It’s funny you didn’t mention advertising as a solution for low population. That is what most people want.  But the changes you suggest instead can be put into place with little effort and without the devs having to pay money.

 

Ads bring people in, quality makes them stay. In the current state there is little point in advertising, because the people would leave soon due to the things I mentioned.

With a low budget, the focus is always cost efficiency. And let’s be honest, budget is always low, especially if you are a small developer team. That’s why I mentioned things that are crippling but relatively easy to fix, in terms of money. Advertising is an option, but at this point not a very efficient one.

 

I really hope this game isn’t just a cash cow, but actively developed. Because it has tons of potential in the current market situation, and it already brings a very solid and fun core. Heck, I would even help with the development/analysis as a hobby project if that means we’ll get more people shooting with space lasers!

Ads bring people in, quality makes them stay. In the current state there is little point in advertising, because the people would leave soon due to the things I mentioned.

With a low budget, the focus is always cost efficiency. And let’s be honest, budget is always low, especially if you are a small developer team. That’s why I mentioned things that are crippling but relatively easy to fix, in terms of money.

 

I really hope this game isn’t just a cash cow, but actively developed. Because it has tons of potential in the current market situation, and it already brings a very solid and fun core. Heck, I would even help with the development/analysis as a hobby project if that means we’ll get more people shooting with space lasers!

 

You have hit the nail on the head about advertising :slight_smile: I wondered if you had omitted it intentionally. Player retention is the key!

 

It is actively developed, but by a Russian dev team, so I don’t know how open they are to working with you.  There are a couple of guys on the forum whose job it is to pass on feedback to the devs, so hopefully they see this thread and take action upon it!

Denolven

Good day! 

I really enjoyed reading your post. And i wanted to thank you for making it so structural with details and examples. It is really easy for reading. 

Regarding your ideas. You are right we are aware of the fact that it should be more newbies friendly and that is one of our main priorities now. We are working very intensively on the new content and tutorial for them. Speaking of which if u think that something should be added there, we will be glad to discuss it.

 About that “wasn’t able to get through the tutorial, because it told me to do things that are limited to T3+ (placing bombs)” i need some more information here. honestly i’m pretty new in the team and i guess we have some misunderstanding of the tutorial on T2.

About the " Make paying money easy" unfortunately creating content here and implementing ideas here is much more difficult than it seems. We have plenty of ideas but they need discussion. There will be changes but later.

P.S. it is really great to see pilots who care so much about our game and who are willing to help us is evolving. I’m sure that together we will reach outstanding success.

About the " Make paying money easy" unfortunately creating content here and implementing ideas here is much more difficult than it seems. We have plenty of ideas but they need discussion. There will be changes but later.

 

I know that myself and others have had issues with monetisation for a long time.

 

The simple answer is we want to be able to spend money more often. We’d rather have lots of cheaper options than spending huge lump sums.

Being able to buy more cosmetic stuff like paint schemes would be nice; I get the impression players are less fond of “pay to progress” type stuff.

My long-term complaint on this front is in T4 and up. I worked out a while ago it costs me around £40 to £50 to equip a T4 ship with Mk III modules using GS. I can buy a brand new AAA title for that! It’s simply asking for too much investment, especially for a ship that I might not want to play that often.

 

This is coming from someone who would rather pay GS to get Mk III than grind for it - if the prices were lower, I’d do it. But there has always been a blanket “we won’t listen” attitude concerning monetisation concerns.

But there has always been a blanket “we won’t listen” attitude concerning monetisation concerns.

Typical responses include “we don’t answer questions about our game’s economy”.

JasanQuinn is correct. Your game is full of macro -transactions (those over $10) and almost completely lacking micro -transactions ($5 or less). DLC prices alone are more expensive that most independent games. In short, your business-model relies on a very small number of wealthy players rather than relying on a lot of average-income players. And that is what is hurting you.

Regarding your ideas. You are right we are aware of the fact that it should be more newbies friendly and that is one of our main priorities now. We are working very intensively on the new content and tutorial for them. Speaking of which if u think that something should be added there, we will be glad to discuss it.

 

I’ll gladly give my input on tutorial making. Actually, this type of game does not require an extensive tutorial, which is good news for the development. The arena-based gameplay is built on iteration. That mean people will play a specific type of match (or a couple of different ones), and they will play those types of matches very often. As they play more often, they will learn the patterns and notice details and improve automatically. People will figure out the details themselves pretty quickly - all you need to do is show them the basics and give them opportunities to explore the system. Easy gameplay at tier 1 serves this purpose. Also, open space is in principle perfect for that! But more on that later.

First, what I think is absolutely required:

 

Tell them what the game is about

This one is easy; I just played the tutorial (the one in the help menu - wasn’t there more than one type of tutorial when I checked that last time?), and it already covers the essentials. Moving, shooting, capturing, that is all that is required to play your first matches.

If you have resources to build more than just essentials, you should add meaning. For example, you can build a small scenario that draws the player right in. So instead of just following instructions on paper, it could be alot more engaging.

 

Example with me as the newbie:

A friendly station (hint: use an instanced station region with the home station of the faction that I had chosen) is attacked by [insert enemy type according to background story]. I’m just returning from a trip (warp in) and receive a call to assist in defending. The battle is already going on. I move to the station = learn how to move. On the way to the station, enemy “scouts” try to intercept, or maybe I get in from behind enemy forces and attack their reinforcement freighters, something like that. Some easy targets = learn how to shoot. When arriving at the station, more shooting against several targets, some of them busy with my allies, a few of them attacking me. After defeating some attackers, I need to pick up an item and bring it to an important building/generator near the station. It needs to be repaired so we can activate the sabotaged station weapons = learning how to pick up things. The enemy warlord just enters the battle, and he’s too strong to defeat him. So my allies keep the enemy fleet busy, while I need to bring up the generator (capping/building). But before I can finish, I get attacked by a few enemy fighters (interrupted capping). I manage to fend them off and finish the repairs just in time. Station weapons go active, boom boom boom everywhere, like thunder (yes yes, sound in space, I know, but nobody really cares :p), the enemies start falling, I saved the day.

After things calm down, the Empire/Federation/Jericho immediately thank me for my assistance and give me access to their contract work. It is normally limited to elite pilots, but seeing my performance in the fight is sufficient as an entry test. Due to my unexpectedly good performance, they also offer me a present: I may chose one low rank (tier 1) ship of this faction. I may pick:

  • this factions main interceptor class
  • or this factions main frigate class
  • or an upgraded version (next rank) of my fighter ship
  • or currency (credits and loyalty vouchers)

Of course in the choice dialogue I get a 2-sentence-description of that class, so I roughly know what the class is about (explain the role and the strengths, not the class modules). If I get a new ship, it is immediately placed in one of the three ship slots, so I know where to find it.

 

This kind of tutorial serves the following purposes:

  • It gets me hooked, especially if meaning is provided through a scenario where my actions matter - spaceships and lasers, yeah!
  • It provides me with something to play around and experiment afterwards, essentially building a bridge between tutorial and the followup gameplay
  • Since I can choose the type of reward, I can already start to go in the direction I prefer. Also, I get a simplified first impression of this faction’s ships without getting overwhelmed by the ship tree or a list of modules

Open space

After the player did the tutorial scenario, you can use the open space for advanced tutorial things. While the basic tutorial automatically starts when you play the game for the first time, these advanced things should be available via missions, thus being optional, just like the current ones (more on that later). The open space is PERFECT for newbies, because it allows them to do what they want, but also offer possibilities for testing and solidifying the freshly learned piloting skills in a relatively safe environment. However, the current open space needs a few minor adjustments:

  • There needs to be an area in the station region that has weak NPC ships in it at every time, and it needs to be easy to see/find from the undocking spot. Currently, the hostile NPC ships are instagibbed by friendly NPC ships, unless you happen to arrive there within the 5-10 second window where they still live. Newbies need an easily accessible and reliable training ground :slight_smile:
  • The hostile NPCs in the surrounding regions (at least the ones that are directly adjacent) need to be tougher than the ones near the stations, but MUST NOT be impossible to handle for a solo newbie. You want to encourage exploration, not discourage it! Havind really tough NPCs somewhere there is a good idea, but please not everywhere.

(Tutorial) Missions

The current tutorial/faction missions need a rework. The mission system itself is good, but the missions themselves are both crappy fetch quests and sometimes not synchronized with the current game anymore (it probably was when it was built). I suggest making the following changes:

  • Don’t make me repeat the tutorial missions that I have already done while I was working for another faction.
  • Improve quality of the missions - no crappy fetch quests please, and no “win X amount of Y mode” or “reach rank X”, that’s just silly. I already learned how to move in the basic tutorial, and winning a match or buying a new ship is NOT a piloting skill. Tutorial missions are supposed to teach me advanced piloting, not provide me with a todo checklist. Make each tutorial mission worth my time. Make it so that I can say “Ah, that’s interesting!” or “So this is what this thing is; I already wondered.” And maybe add an ingame reward that matters - 10k credits do not matter. If you need more detail about why the current quests are crappy and how you can improve them, I can go deeper into that. As a rule of thumb: If you can’t name a piloting or ship building mechanic for the mission you have in mind, then it’s probably not worth keeping.
  • If you can afford the development resources, add meaning to the tutorial quests. I’m an elite mercenary, not some errand boy. Don’t make me fetch that damn fuel cell for you - give me something proper! Introduce me to a certain mechanic by presenting me a challenge/puzzle/scenario that requires me to use this mechanic. Don’t just tell me to buy a Guard and press F. Make me do less things, but meaningful things.

I would recommend scrapping all of the current tutorial missions. I can’t remember a single good one. They have served the game well when the game was different. Now with the open space, there are much better options.

  • Make a list of gameplay mechanics that you want the new player to learn. Be very specific. “Playing role X” is not a gameplay mechanic, it’s a group of gameplay mechanics. Good examples are:
    • “Standing in the open is not a good idea because you will die quickly”
    • “You can use long range weapons to shoot someone who can’t shoot you.”
    • “Electromagnetic(?) damage is good against shields, kinetic damage is good against armor, unless the target has special resistance modules equipped.”
    • “If you play class X, try this or that. If you play against class X, thry this or that.”
  • For each gameplay mechanic, provide a meaningful mission/scenario/challenge/puzzle that requires this mechanic to succeed. If it is complex, don’t be afraid to use more than one challenge to explain it in smaller steps.
  • Remove everything that does not serve the list.
  • Make the advanced tutorial missions available via the help menu, so I can just play a ones that I’m interested in, or I can repeat them later if I forgot something. This helped me a great deal when I was able to look up info about the ship classes.

As for the “send your ships away do do something” missions, those a really good idea to make ship collections usefull, but they really confuse newbies. The missions don’t explain what they are about (sending ships away to get stuff). And even if you add that info, which you should, the newbies don’t have spare ships anyway. Me and every single one of my friends just ignored them until rank 5 or so, because it wasn’t clear what they do.

If it’s of no use to a newbie, don’t shove it in their face. It’s just spam that distracts from the important things. Maybe unlock these special missions when the player reaches a certain tier/rank, and add a little hint what those missions are about.

 

And while we are at showing/hiding things, maybe you can show advanced ship info by default? If the ship says “Synergy bonus: +20% energy regeneration” and the ship info has no entry that shows the energy regeneration, then things become somewhat irritating. Don’t show me either, or show me both, so this information can actually be understood.

 

Extra Credits made a video that touches this topic as well:

 

About that “wasn’t able to get through the tutorial, because it told me to do things that are limited to T3+ (placing bombs)” i need some more information here. honestly i’m pretty new in the team and i guess we have some misunderstanding of the tutorial on T2.

 

I was talking about one of the faction missions, which seem like tutorial missions. The ones that are shown in the ingame character profile under the faction rank (currently there are 33 of them). It told me to place a bomb or kill someone who has a bomb, referring to the PvP mode where you have to destroy enemy bases by placing a bomb. When I had that mission, I was somewhere around rank 4/5, so I had no idea what it is even talking about (this mode is only available in tier 3+). A few missions later, I was asked to use the Guards special module to absorb damage, followed by the mission to reach rank 4 with the faction. At that point I was sitting in a rank 5 guard and had played maybe 100 PvE matches…

Many of those faction missions are completely out of synch with the current player progression. But that’s ok, because the missions themselves are not proper tutorial missions anyway. My recommendation is to NOT put any effort into sorting them or improving their texts, because they will be replaced by proper advanced tutorial missions anyway. If you agree on making those, that is.

 

About the " Make paying money easy" unfortunately creating content here and implementing ideas here is much more difficult than it seems. We have plenty of ideas but they need discussion. There will be changes but later.

 

I suspected something like that. I noticed a few interesting twists here and there compared to other F2P games, but didn’t do a more detailed analysis yet. I wanted to focus on the critical gameplay issues first. While the monetization can be done better, it currently is in a working state (as in generating income). Well, at least I assume it is - I don’t have your numbers and I don’t know what you are discussing internally, so I don’t know how critical this actually is.

2-3 core gameplay things on the other hand are currently not in a working state.

 

 

PS: Don’t let my walls of text discourage you. The game has many good little features. I just didn’t talk about them here. Maybe I should make a “things that have been done right” topic :slight_smile:

It is actively developed, but by a Russian dev team

 

I’m confused. Isn’t StarGem Inc. an American type of company? Their website also says that the company sits in the US.

I’m confused. Isn’t StarGem Inc. an American type of company? Their website also says that the company sits in the US.

They have an office in the US, but the HQ is in Russia.

After spending some time in T3, I’m now confident enough to provide my feedback. So here we go.
 
Playing tier 3:
My friends left the game upon reaching T3. And I am not very motivated to continue either. I asked them why they don’t want to play anymore, and while all of us have slightly different reasons, it all comes down to this one point: playing the game feels like punishment, because we don’t feel like we are in control. Sure we are newbies (although you could argue that after 250 hours we aren’t), but we don’t suck because of that. We suck for arbitrary reasons that we can’t change. At least it feels that way.

  • We get thrown into a team of newbies (perfectly fine) against a team of veterans (not so fine), resulting in 2 minute matches where one team roflstomps the other one. This is no fun for anyone. It’s boring for the vets, and it’s crushing the motivation of the newbies very very quickly. And even if the match happens to be balanced, we still feel like we don’t contribute anything.
  • the “efficiency” rating and game statistics in general don’t tell us anything. We don’t see how much damage we or anyone else did, we don’t see what gives points and what doesn’t, and we always end up at the bottom without knowing why. The game tells us “YOU SUCK!!!” but doesn’t give any information as to why exactly we suck and what we should do about it.
  • The open space missions keep sending us into regions far away from the station (which is ok), telling us to do this or that, but then the basic mob in this region keeps killing everyone of us in 3 hits. So we just spent like 15 minutes to prepare and get there, then get stomped in 5 seconds, or maybe in 10 if we use a Guard ship. And it’s not because the AI does cool moves or has fancy tricks. No, it’s just because it hits us in the face with Thor’s hammer, moves like an interceptor and has enough hitpoints to make you think it has plot armor. We don’t die because we are newbies, we die because the numbers are ridiculous. This is the laziest form of difficulty, and it sucks, because the player can’t do anything about it. What do you want me to do? Bring 10 people? Not gonna happen.
  • 5v5 or 6v6 seems to be the common match size, and due to the high percentage of veterans we keep getting matches where one guy totally destroys everyone, like fighting and winning 1v3 while capping a beacon in his Recon ship. Great for him, not so great for everyone else. Feeling useless is NOT the feeling you want people to have when playing your game! Small teams + high amount of veterans = endless frustration.

So while we like the core gameplay very much and have fun in our ships, playing the actual game feels like getting punched in the face.
I don’t have access to server statistics of course, but I’d be willing to bet that the percentage of newbies who reach tier 4 is in the low single digits. And this is really really bad for both players and the developers, because when you have a system that contains of 5 tiers, when people don’t reach half of that content, that means that half of the game is dead, literally.
 
So what to do about it? Maybe we can come up with a few low cost solutions that could improve this situation. Here are some suggestions:

  • in the death recap info, don’t show the Mk level of the items, only show the type of items and the corresponding damage. Knowing whether some other guy has a purple weapon or a green one doesn’t provide any relevant information, and all it does is demotivating the new players. One of my friends literally quit because he saw everyone flying around in maxed out ships.
  • improve the match statistics - the current ones give us no information whatsoever, except for an “efficiency” rating that we don’t understand. Another one of my friends quit, simply because he felt like doing good in matches, but kept getting a very low efficiency rating. So he killed stuff and did things, but the game tells him he sucks anyway (without telling him why). Punch in the face.
  • Provide a simple indicator in the UI about the status of squad station protection. Just a small simple green/red lamp, like in EVE online, with a tooltipp saying what it means. My friends got killed outside of the station several times, because we didn’t know that we were attackable.
  • Make “blue” ships in open space real allies. If I’m sitting in a command ship or Engineer, I want to be able to help random people. The current system doesn’t allow anything - and if there is no interaction between players in an online multiplayer game, then what’s the point in playing it?

There are also a couple medium cost things that can be done, but will probably take a few updates to implement:

  • Modify the matchmaking so it balances out the teams after getting enough players. Ideally every player has an ELO value for each ship class, representing skill (not the current one that gets higher by playing more). And the matchmaking provides roughly equal teams by balancing out the team ELO.
  • If you don’t want to touch ELO-based balance, at least do ship-based balance. It still doesn’t prevent newbies from getting totally stomped, but at least the matchups would stop looking like this.
  • Review the open space NPC ships/missions, because people will not go through all the hassle of doing 5+ jumps with their friends just to get stomped in seconds, for a reward less than a 10 minute PvP match for ONE of us.

 

 

People will NOT go out of their way to play a game. If the game doesn’t come to the people, they will play another game, it’s as simple as that. If we can stop the seemingly insane bleeding of players, many problems will be fixed automatically. Analyzing why people quit is the most efficient way of starting this kind of improvement.

 

Never thought I’d say this, but I really wish I’d have access to the databases, so I could do a more accurate analysis. Can’t deny the usefullness of SQL when you want real numbers instead of just guessing :stuck_out_tongue:

Little help from another newbie…

 

Efficiency in PvP:

  • up to 100 pts for dmg assist = (dmg dealt)/(targets shield + hull volume)*100%
  • up to 150 pts for kill = (dmg dealt)/(targets shield + hull volume)*150%
  • These above multiply by 2 if enemy had bomb or been capping beacon
  • also apply to killing enemy captain - multiplier x5
  • 35 pts for buff assist - or some similar amount of pts
  • 750(or 650)pts for surviving as captain
  • 150 pts for grabbing bomb
  • 500(I think)pts for planting bomb

Invasion is just broken. To finish those missions w/o problems(most of the time) you’ll need T5 ship - mk4 shield, hull modules kinda required.

 

About T3:

  • Premiums are counted as -1 rank for MM. So you get ships with really nice module line up, awesome R9 implants which are put in low T3 que. Just perfect.
  • There is no T5 content for corporations and even it’ll be introduced we’ll have 3 sectors but every at different time. Therefore T5 dreads will be available only to 8 attacking teams each day(probably less because of fake attacks and other no show ups). T4 is around for quite some time now and almost all those sectors are at 100% defence - noone is playing that. That’s how we end up in T3 being END GAME which is silly but what can I know.
  • Lack of teams in game is caused by MM changes in past. When 4man squad couldn’t get a game for over 10min. Also 3-4 man squad has to face another squad and since there is so few of them it’s common to have veteran squad vs newbie squad.
  • Best part is… glorious T3 is tier when you finally get almost all content and enough module slots to have actual builds on ships so it should be best learning ground for figuring out own playstyle and developing teamplay. Unfortunately it’s impossible because of dreadnoughts it’s end game.

 

Anyway if your crew still around check threads with builds try them, choose something that suits you, focus fire(comms are needed). - That should help you surviving in T3, with little time and practice you’ll own games  :012j:

 

 

 

 

As far as I like this game and think your ideas are quite good you should know/remember that technical/dev crew of this game couldn’t figure out for 2 weeks terms at which one rare title was given and still didn’t change Armory to be useful(modules on ships are included in armory and there is not enough space in it to equip all ships).

 

We get thrown into a team of newbies (perfectly fine) against a team of veterans (not so fine), resulting in 2 minute matches where one team roflstomps the other one. This is no fun for anyone. It’s boring for the vets, and it’s crushing the motivation of the newbies very very quickly. And even if the match happens to be balanced, we still feel like we don’t contribute anything.

Join a vet corporation if you can. 

 

Idk what ur stats are like, but im CEO of RadiX so message me ingame. I would be willing to take a new player for training if he is willing to spend plenty of time ingame and work on getting good. 

 

OWL would probably take you and they’re the best trainer corp imo. not sure where arch is on recruiting standards, but you could also apply there and they will train you pretty well. 

 

If all players showed a resolve to get good, then a lot more would make good corporations which would help them. This would make the game so much better. 

  • The open space missions keep sending us into regions far away from the station (which is ok), telling us to do this or that, but then the basic mob in this region keeps killing everyone of us in 3 hits. So we just spent like 15 minutes to prepare and get there, then get stomped in 5 seconds, or maybe in 10 if we use a Guard ship. And it’s not because the AI does cool moves or has fancy tricks. No, it’s just because it hits us in the face with Thor’s hammer, moves like an interceptor and has enough hitpoints to make you think it has plot armor. We don’t die because we are newbies, we die because the numbers are ridiculous. This is the laziest form of difficulty, and it sucks, because the player can’t do anything about it. What do you want me to do? Bring 10 people? Not gonna happen.

I completely agree with this. Predators and aliens in open space is completely broken, even in sectors where T2/T3 ships are allowed. If reasonable, the damage/hitpoints of these aliens should have been scaled depending on the sector, so that people in lower tier ships still have a chance of taking them on and surviving.

I honestly would be okay with the Predator _if the projectiles weren’t homing. _That is literally one of the most obnoxious aspects of that enemy - a homing Thor’s hammer, as you so aptly put it, that fires every 3 seconds.

 

Small teams + high amount of veterans = endless frustration.

That’s the core problem of this game - the very low playerbase. From that, matchmaker can’t make decently balanced teams. Us vets have been pushing for more endgame content nowadays (more T4-T5 stuff, more dreadnoughts stuff), so that we can keep to our own tiers and stop sealclubbing.

I personally _only _play dreadnought battles now. I rarely go into T4-T5 anymore - seeing as their peak hours are when I’m at work.

So I agree with this statement - let the veterans stay in their own tiers and let the newbies work towards those tiers.

 

SIDE NOTE: as an addendum to the previous point, the players have discussed a “minimum battles required to get into a tier” before. Say, 100 battles required for T2, 500 for T3, 1000 for T4, and 2000 for T5 (Just some numbers I’m throwing out there). It’s a good idea on paper, but in practice that would segregate the players even more when the playerbase is already very low. Therefore, we concluded that this idea would be bad in the short run, but if this game were to gain a high playerbase it would benefit the veterans and newbies alike.

 

  • Make “blue” ships in open space real allies. If I’m sitting in a command ship or Engineer, I want to be able to help random people. The current system doesn’t allow anything - and if there is no interaction between players in an online multiplayer game, then what’s the point in playing it?

This is actually kind of a neat idea. Like in EvE, where I can just help randos, I should be able to help other randos in open space. This would help foster cooperation.

 

  • If you don’t want to touch ELO-based balance, at least do ship-based balance. It still doesn’t prevent newbies from getting totally stomped, but at least the matchups would stop looking like this.

I see one problem with your screenshot. Your friend Riesen is a T2 player, yet the match is T3. I advise for you to not squad up in T3 with a T2 player like that, and to stick to T2 until he is done levelling up to T3 ships. The difference between those tiers, as you have noticed by now, is HUGE. So your friend is fighting at a disadvantage from the start.

 

There is another fundamental problem that I see; Rank 7 ships (like the ones in your loadout) are at a horrible disadvantage against Rank 8/9 ships. This is not your fault, it’s the developer’s fault for not properly balancing T3. These ships only have 3 actives instead of 4 and they have an appalling lack of passive modifiers.

Ideas have been discussed where devs were thinking of how to rebalance T3, and they are thinking along the lines of buffing R7 ships to match the R8/R9 ships in terms of active module slots and passive modifier slots. However, that is coming sometime in September, which is not anytime soon.

 


All in all, I agree with your post. There are fundamental problems to how this game is designed paired with a low playerbase, which is keeping veterans in a tier they don’t really belong in. This is driving the new blood away, which is disastrous for any game in the long run. Something needs to change about this, and soon.

 

In the end, for you I would say keep flying. In League of Legends, there’s something called Elo Hell, and everyone has to go through it. I know it seems like you’re fighting an uphill battle against machinegun emplacements when you only have peashooters, and it will be frustrating. But keep flying in squads (you’re doing that right, good for you), and learn map awareness, positioning skills, and basic squad tactics like focusfire, communication via Teamspeak/Skype/whatever, and repositioning as a single unit. From those foundations, a strong player is made - one that can face up against these veterans.

The community is more supporting than it may first appear. Don’t be afraid to ask for help or approach the vets. I for one am always happy to fly alongside new pilots. Just don’t ask me to fly T2. I suck at that tier. :stuck_out_tongue:

  • up to 100 pts for dmg assist = (dmg dealt)/(targets shield + hull volume)*100%
  • up to 150 pts for kill = (dmg dealt)/(targets shield + hull volume)*150%

You mean *100 and *150 or? Since 100%=1 and *1 makes not that much sense and you would have to deal 100 times more dmg than the targets surviveability to get the 150pts(100pts).