'Claws Twister' Pub!

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1 hour ago, millanbel said:

According to niripas, thar’ga is a glass cannon. I told him it’s more of a concrete nuke.

He then told me I should put 150 kinetic resist on all my ships to be “in with the meta”, and he also told me that me and two of my corpmates were bad tackler pilots because we were unable to tackle a ship that has two combat reboots, cruise engine on steroids and a blink drive.

I think the guy is stoned off the feeling of power he gets by effortlessly one-shotting most ships and has forgotten what balance is (if he ever knew).

Combat reconstructor does not remove any effects, so no it is not 2 Combat reboots

Cruise engine on steroids is shut down by Inhibitor beam

Blink does not remove effects, if your destination out of a blink is still within range, tacklers effects will still be up on it.

99% of Thar’Gas are not using Engine overcharge, and far from many use Crystal Hunger (aka Overdrive). Considering classic Gunships have have at least 1 multi-purpose + reboot + engine boost + overdrive and in case of Mjolnir overdrive removing negative effects, how is it “harder” to tackler a Thar’Ga?

 

So yeah if multiple tacklers can not tackle a Thar’Ga, they are bad tacklers

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1 hour ago, xKostyan said:

Combat reconstructor does not remove any effects, so no it is not 2 Combat reboots

Cruise engine on steroids is shut down by Inhibitor beam

Blink does not remove effects, if your destination out of a blink is still within range, tacklers effects will still be up on it.

99% of Thar’Gas are not using Engine overcharge, and far from many use Crystal Hunger (aka Overdrive). Considering classic Gunships have have at least 1 multi-purpose + reboot + engine boost + overdrive and in case of Mjolnir overdrive removing negative effects, how is it “harder” to tackler a Thar’Ga?

 

So yeah if multiple tacklers can not tackle a Thar’Ga, they are bad tacklers

Doesn’t that shield module (the one like the reaper module) cancel tackle also? That’s what I was counting as second combat reboot. That seems to be the case but I dunno and have no way of testing it. As a non-paying scrub I don’t have access to high-rank thar’ga so I have little idea how the modules work exactly. Well either way they seem to be able to switch off my tackle modules at will.

Jumping 2000km almost always gets them out of hard tackle.

Yeah engine inhibitor shuts down cruise engine but they are still ridiculously fast without it. Like ceptor fast. They don’t use engine overcharge because they don’t need it.

It is harder to tackle a thar’ga because with other gunships I can see them use up modules and time it properly. Thar’ga has so many crazy effects and modules that there is no way to time hard tackle.

The only thing I have found that can really scare away thar’ga is gravi beam, but that is unable to kill them because they have insane regen. G4borg swears by the new guard kinetic weapon but once again being currently a non-paying customer I have no access to it and don’t know how it works.

And… even if I was able to tackle them, they just kill my tackler with one or two shots anyway. Guy yesterday did 12000 damage to me in one shot (70 kinetic resist shield and low kinetic resist hull).

 

 

Kosty, for all your countering my statements one by one, I know by experience after many fights that it’s a lot harder to kill a thar’ga than a fed gunship (weak tank) or an empire gunship (slow). It’s the combination that’s ridiculous, not the properties individually. Thar’ga is fast, has high tank and regen, has extremely high damage, and can jump 2000km in any direction. There’s a reason people like niri fly exclusively thar’ga…

(oh, and I forgot to mention that they have their own insanely effective tackler module…)

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Tons of wrong thing here. 

First, there’s not “second reboot”. You’re inventing things. There’s multipurpose modules, but everybody has access to them. 

 

Second, cruise engine is basically unplayable. Because of the Thar Ga swarm and the guard updates, there’s tacklers and guards everywhere.

And they’ll deny you so hard with their AB debuff + slow that you’ll do nothing.

 I mean, a single sawtooth or jag with slowing beam and 6k range is enough to deny a whole team of Thar Ga. 

I mean, absolutely any Thar Ga doing rampage in PvP are build full speed close range. What can they even expect to do against a 50% slow + AB disable at 6k away?   

 

Also, Thar Ga is NOT tanky. Hard to kill doesn’t mean you’re tanky. Inties are harder to kill them most frigates. 

Fact is that Thar Ga have too much regen because it has a permanent shield booster and repair kit. That’s why it looks tanky. Raw tank without these isn’t high at all. 

Once these two are hammer nerfed to make them somewhat similar to usual survival kits, they’ll be as “tanky”  as federation. 

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50 minutes ago, Swifter43021 said:

cruise engine is basically unplayable. Because of the Thar Ga swarm and the guard updates, there’s tacklers and guards everywhere.

And they’ll deny you so hard with their AB debuff + slow that you’ll do nothing.

 I mean, a single sawtooth or jag with slowing beam and 6k range is enough to deny a whole team of Thar Ga. 

I mean, absolutely any Thar Ga doing rampage in PvP are build full speed close range. What can they even expect to do against a 50% slow + AB disable at 6k away?   

 

Also, Thar Ga is NOT tanky. Hard to kill doesn’t mean you’re tanky. Inties are harder to kill them most frigates. 

Fact is that Thar Ga have too much regen because it has a permanent shield booster and repair kit. That’s why it looks tanky. Raw tank without these isn’t high at all. 

Once these two are hammer nerfed to make them somewhat similar to usual survival kits, they’ll be as “tanky”  as federation. 

From the pov of tharga player who does fly other things.

Not having a problem with cruise, many a guard still stink with positioning and rando teams still(always) trouble focusing within the swarm/behind cover.

Major assumtions bout both tackler and tharg player/ship, lost count at the amount of the cheeky f****rs i insta popped trying to do that an im a guy who likes his tacklers. Know how an sittin it out 6k away is not it.

Not tanky!? Basic stats w/o touching the hull volume too much puts it at 8k, higher than fed, add 3 slots, more tank. Add larger shield volume than fed, more tank. Regen, more, other unique passive, more. Special resist nodes, more. Hammer away, its still a passive and option of half usual kits too… more.

Even if a nerf hammer only eventually means the tharga having its own style of play. The average player is still gonna struggle harder than when dess came here and thought hiding behind a rock was the answer, for a year. I still welcome this abomination because of that, everyone moves around more again, mostly.

 

I’m not saying the thing is unstoppable but even approaching saying it all right here well… probably is the best place for it.

Yep needs a buff i got mine to inty level rotation now i have trouble controlling it, should have extra 50% damage bonus instead, with big pointy teeth, girl painted on the side, big big middle finger on the rear, nyancat engine trails and arms, yeah arms to grabs ship and give em a shake on the way past or as they spawn, huge massive blinding headlights and a dread major caliber, FIXED.

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2 hours ago, millanbel said:

Doesn’t that shield module (the one like the reaper module) cancel tackle also? That’s what I was counting as second combat reboot. That seems to be the case but I dunno and have no way of testing it. As a non-paying scrub I don’t have access to high-rank thar’ga so I have little idea how the modules work exactly. Well either way they seem to be able to switch off my tackle modules at will.

8-2 Implant and 14-1 and reboot, nothing regular ships don’t have access too

Emergency Shield that pops at 15% hull not only should not be removing any negative effects but it’s even slows down a Tharga for 10 sconds

 

2 hours ago, millanbel said:

Jumping 2000km almost always gets them out of hard tackle.

Yeah engine inhibitor shuts down cruise engine but they are still ridiculously fast without it. Like ceptor fast. They don’t use engine overcharge because they don’t need it.

It is harder to tackle a thar’ga because with other gunships I can see them use up modules and time it properly. Thar’ga has so many crazy effects and modules that there is no way to time hard tackle.

Engine suppressor is what 3100 range without a Range bonus, yes 2k jump mostly will break this, inhibitor - no, if you are using Tackler with Range bonus, it has to jump behind a cover to break it since getting out of range rarely would happen

All anti slow effects are exactly the same as for all classic fighters, same animations, same modules, even same timing

 

2 hours ago, millanbel said:

And… even if I was able to tackle them, they just kill my tackler with one or two shots anyway. Guy yesterday did 12000 damage to me in one shot (70 kinetic resist shield and low kinetic resist hull).

Kosty, for all your countering my statements one by one, I know by experience after many fights that it’s a lot harder to kill a thar’ga than a fed gunship (weak tank) or an empire gunship (slow). It’s the combination that’s ridiculous, not the properties individually. Thar’ga is fast, has high tank and regen, has extremely high damage, and can jump 2000km in any direction. There’s a reason people like niri fly exclusively thar’ga…

(oh, and I forgot to mention that they have their own insanely effective tackler module…)

just like you are not going to battle 1v1 CovOps and ECMs and Recons with a support tackler, and focus to enforce your presence form a second line/ flank - same for TharGa

Thar’Ga does not have raw tank,

Thargas are build with 2-3 Shield slots and 3 Hull slots

Shields:

Mostly 2x combat regeneration (regen under fire) + adaptive / em resists, a lot of tharga’s arent even putting any resists into shields, since there isnt really much options to do so, so it is a naked regen, thermal and EM weapons pretty much ignore that “super duper regen” like it is not even there.

some will equip a “off-combat” shield regeneration that kicks in 5 seconds after TharGa did not shoot guns or used modules, - that regen is pretty big, but tharga can not be offensive to have it active

Hull

1x Crystal armour

1x hull Adaptive

1x Matter absorber

As a tackler you gonna shut down adaptives (plus potential adaptives form shield as well), matter absorber has no resists, it regens 2k hp in 4 seconds if something dies within 750m,  which is not really that a lot to overcome incoming dmg. So only true reliable tank it has is a single crystal armour + 9-1 (and with new one hit collision dmg that is going to be mostly 9-3) so raw tank on Thar’Ga is quite small

 

2 hours ago, millanbel said:

(oh, and I forgot to mention that they have their own insanely effective tackler module…)

This effects is affected by Proton wall and 2-3, all targets that are vulnerable to this effect (agile close range ships) should be using proton wall anyways,

This effect is subject to CC diminishing returns just like what ECMs have

This effect is subject to 8-2 implant removal

all of that makes this effect is not that uber awesome as you make it to be

It only reduces manoeuvrability. not disabling you, not slowing you down

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You still haven’t answered the fact that he can one-shot me with 12k damage… Or are you also going to say that I need to equip 150 kinetic resists and leave a massive EM hole? Or “just dodge it” which is impossible?

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8 minutes ago, millanbel said:

You still haven’t answered the fact that he can one-shot me with 12k damage… Or are you also going to say that I need to equip 150 kinetic resists and leave a massive EM hole? Or “just dodge it” which is impossible?

If you have no tank there is no point ramping up resistances.

Tackler tanks with siltation awareness and emergency barrier, just like it always did

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2 minutes ago, xKostyan said:

If you have no tank there is no point ramping up resistances.

Tackler tanks with siltation awareness and emergency barrier, just like it always did

How do you situationally take into account 5 thar’gas on the enemy team all running around your ranks reaping havoc at 600 m/s? EB saves you for one extra shot. Thar’ga just decloaks you with pulsar so even that doesn’t save you.

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pulsar is not triggered at will, it triggered upon losing shield, once 60 seconds, it is important to burn enemy shields to trigger 14 implant before real engagement.

How did you handle games with 5 covops back when they could you kill in 2 seconds with 160% dmg Orion and chargeable Shotgun, or insane Pulse Lasers with curved?

Thargas are very similar to our “good old” CovOps

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2 hours ago, JCNB said:

Not tanky!? Basic stats w/o touching the hull volume too much puts it at 8k, higher than fed, add 3 slots, more tank. Add larger shield volume than fed, more tank.

Yeah. And did you take into account the fact that you have to use passive slots to get regen because survival kits are useless due to permanent 50% heal debuff ?

So less slots spent on tank.

So less tank.

Federation and Thar ga have the same survavibility. I compared them in game.

 

 

 

Like I said many times, the main problem of thar ga right now is  Combat Reconstructor and Combat shield regeneration.

The former heals by 33% of the incoming damages  before  any resistances. The latter is a permanent shield booster that increases the more peoples shoot at you. And both combined is a regen machine.

The enemy team is literally healing you by shooting at you. To the point that now, when I see a thar ga using combat reconstructor, I shoot something else for 6.5 seconds instead.

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“collision works as intended” said CinnamonFake 

 

 

So the fact that half of my death are me being one shoted because an ECM stuned me and I crashed into an asteroid “works as intended” ? 

 

I even died on spawn yesterday because there were an asteroid right in front of me. 

And obviously it was in “capture the beacon”  with no respawn.  ![:dntknw:](<fileStore.core_Emoticons>/emoticons/dntknw.gif “:dntknw:”)

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11 minutes ago, Swifter43021 said:

“collision works as intended”

Should’ve not said that stingray needs less collision damage, now they did the opposite, buffed collision damage.

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the alpha thargas have, make effective tackling really hard. its a lot more than countering ceptors, because no ceptor has such an insane damage output, and gunships were always the hardest enemies of tacklers. They have damage. They tank. They escape tackling easiest. Cruise Gunships are untackle-able, if you play them right. It needs recons or cruise tacklers to individually hunt them down. You cannot do that with thargas. It will never add up, the only thing countering a tharga, is a tharga, or a proxy mortar. Or any of the more recent ship classes, like Darts and Gargoyles, Vigilants and Brokks in combination, to counter all these things aswell.

of course, it is easy to say “good tackler!” if you have your own team of thargas. but it all comes down to the killing yet again, and actually, the thargas do not really need a tackler to kill other thargas anyway…

–

wait, this is a more dizz topic.

so lets get triggered, once a year. and eat a tube of eminems.

so. xeno-kosty. tacklers? you wanna go there? As if you can talk big about tackling? ha?

To be honest, you should listen to millan, who in the tackler is skilled as cena, and really cancel your quite arrogant demeanor as he has probably more skills than the best NASA tackler you got

and if you say but russians, i say mate, wot?

srsly. in tackling, neither nasa galore nor russian community arguments will punch. But I got more.

Not saying, some like SaladHate, aren’t catching up, but in dealing the justice with tackling he still just is veggie lunch. You might have your little Renaissance there, but you are late to the game, besides wolves and the rage, even arctical radix beat you long to that fame. so what ya wanna say? russians took up that playstyle before international corps? i beg to differ, even years after gravi release i was tackling that esb corpse with much ease. 

So where is all that tackler experience suddenly coming from, you put me amaze, was it the Jaguar in Open Space?

in your corp, you are among the early tacklers, I know. And in the past I said Sensei, I bow, to you often in many debates, but tacklers, nay, there I knowtheway. For us it was a doctrine for years.  A doctrine which failed often enough, in tears. But experience is rough, it still makes us tough in dealing the slow delight, and I will show you in any next fight.

Truth is, tharga kills tharga, fight fire with fire, the skill of the tackler needs only be average to get that killcount higher, but with all due respect there - what skill can do caps at some point, as fair and simply put…, the real deal why you think its the lack of a better tackler, is because you just joined and need to git gud.

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11 hours ago, xKostyan said:

Thargas are very similar to our “good old” CovOps

I didn’t know you suffered that much ![:00:](<fileStore.core_Emoticons>/emoticons/00.png “:00:”)

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I feel like that without a team i can’t take a tharga down, so far i only made it with a extremely crit built kraken, 2-3 shots and they’re dead. The ship is not tanky itself but the thing that keeps getting it back to life is the regen things it has, it is not okay to have that much regen that no matter the damage you simply survive, it’s like a perma-ace in the sleeve. Nothing skillful in that nor fun.

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21 minutes ago, ORCA1911 said:

, it’s like a perma-ace in the sleeve. Nothing skillful in that nor fun.

Agreed, from similar experience…

The proxy mortar on an anaconda mk2 or similar, so fitted to make it as fast as possible, and some good guard module timing, can make a no fly zone for thargas, even in the overkinetic meta. Doesn’t work every time, but if you get in range, it deals pain, and if you are lucky enough, they are arrogant enough to line up one by one and die with sweet private message unicorn tears.

Fun part is, since some people started to sacrifice themselves with such fits, also like those similar to yours orca, the actual diverse classes returned a lot more, with actual gameplay being played! Yay! But a few commands can still kill the toughest guard, and there is still the nice window of posi or boson.

RF being broken, guards can easily dispose of short range em attacks mostly. Besides, that covert ops are as glass cannon to a tharga, as a tharga is a glass cannon to a minotaur.

Vigilant+Brokk however, with ecms, guards and commands, very strong, very very strong.

Still, organized, thargas will dominate in points most likely, no matter what happens, in most game modes, especially if they are smart enough to counter the ships with damage first, still, they are not as easily op anymore. Their weapons still do waaaaay too much damage. And maybe to the users it might not feel tanky, but they are.

In fact, the thing that kills thargas most, is their arrogance, not any class or ship or tactic. Played in a thoughtful manner, it is hell of a ship to kill.

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54 minutes ago, g4borg said:

In fact, the thing that kills thargas most, is their arrogance, not any class or ship or tactic. Played in a thoughtful manner, it is hell of a ship to kill.

Kinda my thought exactly. It’s not like it’s unkillable or anything it’s just not in line with the game, that tharga is like a game in a game, gameception lol

56 minutes ago, g4borg said:

Fun part is, since some people started to sacrifice themselves with such fits, also like those similar to yours orca

Which fit are we talking again xD

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I like the idea to split middle tier into 2 different tiers. It seems theorically we all get more balanced fights…

On the contrary I prefer 1 hour sector conquest or anything to keep the best teams focused on the higher tier sectors.

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I asked something in A&Q devs but got closed right after my answer and anyway it wasn’t the place to reply. So i’ll just randomly put it here instead of PM or new topic. Cinnamon( i hate cinnamon, got traumatized, i smell it, i’ll taste it. Even if there’s none and the smell came out of nowhere.) But i like you, the person.

When asked if you’d make uniques for Cov Ops and LRF’s i meant like.

Eclipse launcher-Engi

Thar’k-Gunship

Destructor and Proxi Mortar-Guard

Scatter gun-Recon

You keep making new weapons. But those 2 types STILL DOES NOT HAVE ONE FOR THEIR SPECIFIC ROLE.

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5 hours ago, g4borg said:

To be honest, you should listen to millan, who in the tackler is skilled as cena, and really cancel your quite arrogant demeanor as he has probably more skills than the best NASA tackler you got

MY5VREb.gif

 

and next thing you probably gonna tell me is Oregyen is a great interceptor pilot, sure thing buddy, sure thing