Bug in Tornado

  1. I want to report an in-game bug with the Tornado. Well, as I added a chip that gives a shield after exceeding the speed. If the ship splits up and exceeds a given speed, it gives a shield, but twice. Because it turned out that instead of giving a shield to the AI, it also gives me. This makes it impossible to control the ship.

3. Each time the ship is separated and the AI begins to exceed this speed.

4. Add a chip that gives you such a shield, split the ship, speed it up. And when the AI starts to accelerate it also happens then.

  1. Screenshot and GIF.


So in other words it’s like you’re in a tornado…


he h e

Accepted as SC-113951

On 8/12/2020 at 11:05 PM, RennieAshII said:

So in other words it’s like you’re in a tornado…


he h e

Yeah this has been a thing for a while now - it’s also completely hilarious, broken and has a really basic explanation


Basically, when you have the frontal shield seed chip equipped - if you happen to activate any kind of twin such as a Hologram or the Tornado Twin; the game will apply your seed chip effects to your clone as well with the most obvious one being the shield but also applying to the pulsar chip effect.

With the shield however, when your clone/twin meets the speed threshold to enable the effect the game will spawn the shield on top of your already existing one and not on your hologram which just makes the game engine completely freak out.


I have additional information for the Bug Report on this issue.

I have also recorded a video capture of what is happening but the forum says the video is too large to be uploaded.  So I will explain as best I can in text.


The Seed Chip in question are the ones that project that turtle shield forward of a ship when it reaches max speeds.   I have a few of those seeds on some of my ships and I also placed one onto my Tornado as Dark Red Fox first reported here.


The shield seed functions fine as long as the Twin Tornado Ship is dock with the Tornado Host ship.   The issue occurs when the Twin is detached.   Its the Twin that is controlling the Speed indicator for the Turtle Shield, not the Host.   If you come to a dead stop, detach the Twin Ship and dont move the Host, the Twin will start its Protection cycle and circle the Host.  Once the Twin reaches the threshold in speed to trigger the Turtle Shield, the Host Ship will activate the shield.  Even when at zero speed.


The issue Dark Red Fox described where the ship becomes uncontrollable is due to BOTH ships triggering the Turtle Shield.   

Detach the Twin, it will circle in protect mode.   Now throttle up the Host and engage after burners.   The Twin will begin to follow the Host as is should.   Once both ships reach the Turtle Shield threshold speed, the Host ship will have two turtle shields projected forward of it, one from the Twin and one from the Host.   The flight becomes unstable then due to both Shields residing in the same physical space and colliding with each other.  This forces the Host ship out of its flight path and direction, bringing both Turtle Shields along with it and the event just occurs again, over and over.   Since the Shields are the physical type and nothing can pass thru them, both shields in the same location on the Host results in unstable flight.


If the Swap to Twin module is triggered, the pilot is swapped to the Twin ships and for a few seconds, can even look back at the previous Host and see the Turtle Shields still on the now-Twin Ship and no shield on the now-Host.   A few seconds later, the Shield will also transfer to the now-Host and disappear from the now-Twin.   Bring both ships back up to full afterburn so the current active Twin must chase the active Host ship and keep up with it and both Turtle Shields will be triggered again, resulting in the unstable flight.


The issue is with the Twin, not the Seed Chips.  The Twin Ship is controlling the speed threshold to activate or drop the Turtle Shield.   It should be the Host Ship in control of it, not the Twin.


What I would like to see corrected in resolving the bug is this…

  1. fix the Speed threshold trigger to be that of the Host Ship, not the Twin.


  1. fix the Twin Ship to also have the Turtle Shield when its speed triggers it, even if the Host is at a dead stop.   The Seed is at the ship level, so the entire ship must be able to use the Seed.  This means both when connected and when disconnected as Host and Twin.


  1. Correct the Shield graphic on all these types of Seed Chip Shields so a pilot can see targets thru them.  As they are currently, the bluish graphic pattern is too opaque and one crashes into rocks and other objects in the flight path when one could simply dodge them if one could see thru the shield better.  The shield consists of hexagon patterns filled in with the opaque “shield” … drop the inner graphic inside the hexagons completely on the Pilot side of the shield but leave it as is on the enemy side.   Or just gradient the entire shield to almost nothing so it can be view through completly.   Personally, Id like to see the hexagons stay as is and just make their insides more transparent.   To a pilot, it would appear as a mesh shield out front.     The issue was also present with Destroyer Shields at first but now days they are almost transparent.   Same principle.   We need to see thru the Turtle Shield to pilot our ships.  I have them on super fast ships and when your in full afterburn and that shield is active… you have no clue where youre going unless you drop your speed to take down the shield.   That defeats the purpose of it.   Its a physical shield so ram with it.   


One more issue with the shield itself is this…it doest really push or move anything.  A few asteroids now and then, but Ive installed them on different ships of different sizes and it doesnt push enemy out of the way as the chips describe as such.   What happens is you slam into the enemy and you get deflected out of the way, not the enemy.  It depends on the ship the shield is installed on and the ship being rammed.   Theres not really an enhanced math formula when using them.   Some ships can push other ships.  The shields should be enhancing those “weight” attributes of the ships but they dont.   Its more like a random number generator …sometimes it can push and other times your dead stopped in full afterburn or deflected off an enemy.  Which is probably why very few of the Turtle shields are seen on ships.  The seeds dont function as advertised, and if they do, is more of a random thing and not a offensive or defensive option to install on a ship.


I wish I could have uploaded the debug video…pictures say alot more then texted.   Everything described here was captured.  Maybe I’ll put it on a cloud site and post a link.   If the Developers need the video, send me an email and I will forward.   Gaijin has the email address.  Its the one used for the forum access.




Most seed chips seem to only apply to one tornado as well. Honestly I feel like they should apply to both. And like those pickups that are “pulled by the ship” only go to one tornado as well. It’s weird.

That’s kind of a bummer to hear. I’ve been trying to get a pulsar chip for my Tornado, assuming it would apply to both ships. No luck, but if this is the case, I might give up.

I Agree.

According to the description given to us originally, the Tornado Twin was a clone of the Tornado Host Ship.

I can understand the split of the four Active Modules, that makes sense because two module turrets are on the Host ship and two turrets are on the Twin ship.


The Engine, Caps, Shields Hull and CPU modules are cloned onto the Twin, the ship description even says they are by stating that no degradation of the ships attributes would occur when the Twin separates, so it seem very logical to me that any Seeds that applied to the ship overall, should also apply to both ships when separated, simply because Seed Chips are modifications to the overall ship attributes.  So any Seeds installed should also work on both ships when separated being that the overall ship is still intact. 


I have also noticed on my Tornado that the Twin when separated, doesnt use its Active Modules.  For example and to test it, I installed IR Flares onto the Twin and then went out after some Pirate Turrets on the Enclave Battle Stations, sitting back in the Host ship and triggering the Twin to attack the turrets.   When the Battle Station fires its rockets or a Pirate bot fires missiles at the Twin, the ship should be responding with its countermeasure and trigger the IR Flares to avoid the strikes to it, but it doesnt.   I have even swapped the pilot seat back and forth to see it it did trigger and I just missed the effect.  The module is never in cooldown, meaning the Twin never uses the counter measure even when its on the ship.


However, the Twin does use Active Modules that are also Passive if installed but doesnt trigger them.   To test that, I placed the Shield Resistance one onto the Twin and when it battles, it takes less shield damage (passives in use) then normally but again, the Twin doesnt trigger the module into the active state and force more resistance to the shield and then enter cooldown.


So it doesnt appear to me that the Twin is actually a Twin ship.   Ive never seen it fire missiles or deploy a drone when fighting.   It only shoots its main weapon, and if Seeds are active on the weapons, the Seeds dont appear to be effecting the Twins main weapon.  This can be seen by using the EM burst type seed on the main (using a kinetic main) and there should be the EM round firing every few seconds.   Ive also tested that using other weapon boosting seeds that do stuff with thermals in addition to the normal kinetic mains.  No additional thermals occur.


But over all, the Twin does respond very well and Im very pleased with how it battles when commanded to attack a target, even if its crippled from using modules or not an active “twin” of the Host ship.   The combat bot algorithms deserve some kudos.   Ive watched it dodge rounds, circle or strafe a target while attacking and even when the Host Target Lock is released, Ive seen it fight its way back to the Host again.  But how it uses whats installed in the module slots needs some review and attention from the Devs.   Because its not using things to its fully equipped potential.  Ive seen and experienced those Co-Op Bots use all their modules on me when in battle and Ive even learned a few tricks from them, so its not like the Bots AI logic cant support using equipped modules and cause them to go active.


Ive stated this here so that when the logic is reviewed for the initial reported problem with the Turtle Shield usage, some of the other issues described can also be kept in mind or the Devs can keep their eyes open in the code for things that look strange when comparing the Host Ship logic against the Twin Ship logic.   From my coding experiences, the only real effected area is the Active Module usages.  The Twin can only use two of the four initially on the ship since it only has two of the turrets on the bottom section.  Other then some additional Bot AI logic installed to follow the Host commands and to do battle, the ship should be a clone of the Host, as was originally touted at its release.


But I love the ship and Ive been around long enough to know and understand that all newly added ones get tweaks and nerfs over time.  Ive never been a huge fan of the Gunships in the game but the Tornado is the best ever to be rolled out onto our Pads.   Even in combined mode, the ship holds up very well in battle and is the first Gunship that I feel doesnt have paper hulls or is a glass cannon.  And this being a Federation ship even, that faction has never had the ability to really hold their ground, being that they rely on their speed, not their hulls.  So good job guys.  Youve made a Gunship I own and actually fly instead of just collecting dust in the Hangar garage with a tarp over them. 



  . .

As far as Seed Chips usage goes on the Twin when its separated I feel that if the Twin clones the Host Ship’s attributes, then Seeds should also be cloned.

However, I can also see that in doing so, the overall ship becomes overpswered, being that there are now two times the attribute boosts the seeds produce when they seperate.


So to keep things fair and balanced as far as Seed Chip go on a Tornado, the ship could use the same principle as the Turrets.  I dont have the game up at the moment but I beleive the ship uses five or six Seed Chip slots.   So to deal with the overpowering effect when the Twin is deployed, just balance the logic to also split the Seeds installed.   Depending on the Seed Slot a chip is installed in (same as the module slots) …some seeds would be installed on the Host and only active on that ship, and the others only on the Twin, and only active on that ship when its detached.  This would solve the Turtle Shield issue also.  When the ship is in combined mode, All the Seeds effect the overall ship.  When the ship separate, those seeds placed into the Twin slots effect only the Twin and those seeds in the Host slots, effect only the Host ship.   The Pilot Toggle should not effect the seeds then since the Pilot is transferring to either one or the other ship.  The Seeds are not transferring.  They are determined by what slot the chip is placed into back in the Hangar.


When the ship is combined.  all the chips apply basically since the two halves are in close proximity to each other and linked at the hull.  Under the covers in logic, the two ships are basically running the seeds they have assigned to their slots.   So even the Pulsar Seeds types would function to protect both halves when connected, but when separated, that seed only triggers based on which half has the seed installed and takes the trigger damage.  If in the Host half and the Twin is in protect mode and circling, the Host gets triggered and the pulse would also protect the Twin while circling since its doing so within the seeds range.  Same goes for if installed on the Twin and its triggered, its circling the Host and the Host is inside the flight circle, therefore its protected by the pulse too.  Only if the two ships are more then 2000m apart would that pulse only protect one or the other, depending on which ship has the chip in its slot., 


This type of correction of Logic to the AI overall on the Twin may be less intrusive, using the split seed slots then trying to completely clone both attributes and producing a x2 overpowered ship.  Were not doing that with the Active Modules, so it makes sense not to do it with the Seeds.   


That is unless the actual intent of cloning on the Twin was to make an exact copy of the Host.    But therein lies the issue of…its NOT an exact clone, the turrets are not the same and both ships function differently when in the separated state.   The Seed slots should be an even number so they divide evenly.  Again, I dont have the game actually up at the moment so if there were five slots, reduce to four seed slots, two per half but if there are six slots, each ship uses three seeds.  Slots one, two and three are the Host Seeds, and slots four, five and six are the Twin Seeds.   If a Pilots wants to clone the Seed functions then, when separated, they use the same type of Seeds in both sets of slots.  Want both ships with Turtle Shields?  Place in slots one and four…but doing so will trigger the “tornado effect” of dual shields when the ship is combined.   That then becomes Pilot Crafting Error and not a ship flaw, but a simple logic fix could be done on the Turtle Shield chips to shut down one if multiples are installed in Combined mode, resulting in only one Turtle Shield active unless the ships separate.  Non seperating ships can use the same chips and other ships like the Spiral would also benefit from the logic change when that interceptor detaches  I think that ship uses three seeds…but first two can be the Host Frigate and the third is the seed in the Interceptor.  Together they use all the Seeds, separate they use the former or latter seeds in the slots.   This type of Seed Chip Slot Standard then can be used in later ships on the drafting boards that split or detach, where some slots remain on the host ships and others are on the secondary ships.


Hope this helps!   

Ah… I just looked back at the hanger image posted by Bloody…theres five Seed slots.   Okay then, drop to four slots for an even number, (cant increase or the ship become too OP with Seeds) and slots 1&2 are host ship seeds and slots 3&4 are Twin ship seeds.  That then keeps the ship balanced against other R17s using 5 seeds, since just the deployment of the Twin brings another combatant onto the battle field against the enemy or other R17s.  And with that Twin and its Battle AI Tactics, that then takes the place of the fifth seed slot.


Personally Id would have liked six slots, three each per half so each half has a better compliment of seed usage when detached, but I understand the need to remain balanced.  If this ship gets six just to give each half a better compliment of seeds when detached, then all the R17s would have to get six seed slots.  Thats more work in logic just to fix one ship’s issue with using seeds and splitting and combining.  So I would settle with a reduction to four seeds and half to the host and half to the twin and neither effect the other ship when they are detached from each other.

Okay…one more post for now about the Tornado.


If you toggle the pilot seat like I do all the time when the Twin is detached, there can be instances where you just lose the understanding as to which half youre currently controlling.

So there are two methods to determine which half youre currently piloting.


Method One

Just look down at your Active Module Slots.   Depending on whats loaded in slots three and four determine what ship youre piloting.


Method Two (the one I rely on the most)

There are five Decor positions on the ship.   First decor is on the Host half, on the forward nose.

Decor two and three are on the Host half, aft, on the tail ends of the wings, port and starboard sides.

Decor four and five are on the Twin half, aft, on the tail ends of the wings, port and starboard sides.


By placing one of your Decorations on the Host nose, in decor position one you can see it all the time even when eyeballing a target or shooting at an enemy, without looking down at the HUD modules and taking your eyes off the battle field.


So if you toggle between both ships constantly, in a huge firefight, as you toggle away from the active ship, the Twins AI takes over and starts flying the ship, moving it away from where you even remember it was at on the battle field just seconds ago.  It does that with both ships.   So in a huge firefight one can lose track of where youre at and what ship youre commanding at the moment.  


But just looking out the front of the ship will tell you which one, host or twin, youre currently piloting, without looking at the HUD.   The ship with the decor on the nose is the Host.  The ship with no decor on the nose is the Twin.   I dont even look at the HUD anymore to know what half Im commanding.


There was a slight learning curve the first day after crafting to get the feel of all the toggling and module shifting in the slots to make way for the two Host Control Modules but once ya figure out that slots one and two are the Host modules and slots three and four are the Twins Modules…and that one and two shift over to three and four after the halves detach so the Command Modules have a place to be trigger, it almost becomes second nature after a few sorties in the ship.


So if you have trouble knowing what ship half youre controlling at any given time, even in a huge battle all over the place, just place a decor in decor position one…its the Host Half and youll see it all the time without taking your eyes off a target.  If its not there on the nose, youre in the Twin.   So now you dont have to look down at the HUD to know what modules are on what ship in slots three and four.   


Not the way I would have coded something like that…its very non-standard as far as Module Slot usages go in the game…shifting the assigned functions two slots over (resulting in the Pilot not being able to remember what module was assigned to which keybind back in the Hangar)…but once you get the hang of it, it works.   I personally would have coded such a feature to leave the assigned slots as is and show the Command Modules into two new module slots, (five and six) that dont allow modification while in Hangar and when Piloting the Host half, module slots three and four are X-ed out and disabled, and when in the Twin half, Module Slots One and Two are X-ed out and disabled.  But the extra slots, five and six are always there when in flight and always enabled.   There would be no shifting of assigned slots set up in the Hangar and since they are predefined functions, no modules can be inserted into slots five and six.   All that would be required extra would be two new Keybind Setups on the Keybind config screen for a Pilot to assign what keys trigger the Command Modules.


Even if you didnt want to modify the Keybinds, a new seperate popup screen when in the hangar could have been added to define that ships extra keybinding for the two extra Command Modules.  It just seemed counter productive to me to have the User assign modules into slots in the Hangar (some users use the same key patterns for modules) and then shift and move them around in logic when the Tornado separates.  There is that need for the swap and command modules, but it shouldnt have resulted in the shifting of what a User had setup back in the hangar.  The two new functions are basically hard-coded to swap and to command, so there should have been hard-coding of module slots five and six to hold these new functions.  I can already imagine the coding of array items of the Module Slots and whats in them by the User, to then save and restore those values come time to separate or attach each time.   Im not a fan of hard coding things myself, but sometimes it serves a better function for something that will be a one up kind of thing.   If the intent was to implement these types of new features in the future and have more ships with similar functions like the Tornado, then, No, you dont hard code such things.  What you do is spend some additional design time and implement better soft coded features that will function globally throughout the Product, in this case, throughout multiple ships in a game.  If the Tornado is to be a off up type of ship, then it would have been better to hard code the additional two module controls, then to change out what a User set and configured back in the hangar.


It works as coded, but as this bug thread shows, it doesnt work with the normal slot methods we Users have grown accustomed to.  The bugs that occur may be caused just from the modifications to known working logic and the shifting of slot array items and theres a line or two of code thats not reflecting the correct modules in the assigned slot (Im refering to my prior post of the Twin not using its countermeasure modules correctly).  That could just be the Twin looking at the modules array and seeing the Host modules slotted, trigger them, but then later on down the logic path, the trigger fails because the twins array doesn’t have that particular module, its back on the Host ship.   I say that because of the initial reported issue involving the Turtle Shield…the Twin detaches and its flight speed is triggering the Host to pop up the Turtle Shield, even when the Host is at a dead stop in space.



I know some of you have said in the past about my posts being way too long here at times.   But Im not here with a cell phone typing with my thumbs.   I know how to actually type using all ten of my fingers on a keyboard and I know how to develop code and every one of you reading these use what I developed over the years just about every day in your lives.  I know whats involved in giving us new things in the game and I respond in kind by trying to explain to the Developers doing the coding who read these, what is going on in the logic during Runtime, not what is happening in their minds as they read each line of source code.   These types of post may seem off subject to some users, but that is never my intent.   Mine is to give as much information in semi technical terms that developers understand, not Users.  Sure, Im a Star Conflict User, but as I play it, the Developer and Designer in me sees and understand whats going on under the covers in the logic.  So if these seem too long for you to read on your phones…skip my posts and just read the one-liners and smile at the GIF posts. 


See ya (and even kill ya) on the Battlefields in my MK5s throughout, leveled up new Tornado running all gold seeds !!!




On 8/30/2020 at 12:22 AM, ScireEstMelius said:

That’s kind of a bummer to hear. I’ve been trying to get a pulsar chip for my Tornado, assuming it would apply to both ships. No luck, but if this is the case, I might give up.

Aside: So, last night, after the weeks of stalking pirate Destroyers, I gave up on getting a Pulsar chip, and put a different GS chip on my Tornado. Today, while doing Open Space missions, I happen across a pirate Destroyer and idly took it out. It dropped TWO Pulsar chips. On the one hand, yay, on the other hand, ffffffuuuuuuuuuuuuu-

2 hours ago, ScireEstMelius said:

Aside: So, last night, after the weeks of stalking pirate Destroyers, I gave up on getting a Pulsar chip, and put a different GS chip on my Tornado. Today, while doing Open Space missions, I happen across a pirate Destroyer and idly took it out. It dropped TWO Pulsar chips. On the one hand, yay, on the other hand, ffffffuuuuuuuuuuuuu-

This right here is a huge mood

And I just got a third, because apparently NOW it’s funny…